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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Please explain how calling someone a relatively new name is the same thing and disadvantaging them from getting jobs housing, proper security etc?
    I think you're missing the point here. It isn't about the systematic implications; it's that it completely cuts off any ability to empathise from both sides. It means there's less inclination or want to co-operate because, in each other's eyes "They're an asshole."

  2. #152
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Let's make sure to keep things civil, everyone. There's a lot of good points being made.

    (Also I am living for you, Tycon. Fight the good fight.)

  3. #153
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Sphere View Post
    Nonsense

    It doesn't matter how much suffering, misery, tragedy or heartache anyone suffers. You never get a pass or excuse to turn around become as hateful as your abusers. To believe otherwise is to fail to understand the reality of cycle of abuse. The abused often go on to abuse because it's essentially a paradigm & set of behaviors they have learned and absorbed from crappy people. Seeing the Krakoans straight up tolerating the type of thinking and language that leads down the road to Magneto, Exodus, and Apocalypse is surreal. And we already know that attacking humans and attempting to eradicate and/or dominate them leads to mutant extinction.

    Lapsus nailed it. This is the beginnings of seeing humans as less than. Less than what? Mutants? Of course. But what else will mutants see them less than? Cattle? Dogs? Mosquitoes? When you consider someone less than you everything about them is diminished in your eyes. Now imagine a society being told they're gods on a planet surrounded by beings they consider trash. Do you see where this is headed? And why you need more people like Wolverine and less enablers like Emma.
    yeah, humans are still killing them on the daily and will genocide them if given the chance, but the future implications of a tour are the REAAAAAAAAAL evil things, uh um sure thing its impressive how humans get tons of excuses to their treatment of mutants , yet the tiny bit of anything negative warrants these sort of responses.
    its immensly telling

  4. #154
    Cosmic Sandwich Metal Sphere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Please explain how calling someone a relatively new name is the same thing and disadvantaging them from getting jobs housing, proper security etc?
    If you can understand why mutie is a slur, then you understand why flatscan is a slur. The writer choosing to make the kid say those words is not an accident. When children start dropping slurs when referring to other groups the responsible in the room need to start correcting that child. If you don't you'll wind up with generation of Krakoans who think its okay to walk through a gate, say that crap, and get anything other than a negative response. They'd just be mini-Magnetos who can't keep his mutant supremacist ideas out of a conversation with humans for 2 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro
    yeah, humans are still killing them on the daily and will genocide them if given the chance, but the future implications of a tour are the REAAAAAAAAAL evil things, uh um sure thing its impressive how humans get tons of excuses to their treatment of mutants , yet the tiny bit of anything negative warrants these sort of responses.
    its immensly telling
    Ferro, the behavior is self-defeating. In-universe all it breeds is anti-human mutants who think reprisal is just. In-universe we know this dooms mutantkind to extinction. In terms of principles it completely destroys the Krakoans as any sort of good guys if they allow children to indulge, unchallenged, in hate speech.
    Last edited by Metal Sphere; 02-13-2020 at 06:58 PM.

  5. #155
    Mighty Member useridgoeshere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    And isn't that entire attitude just...not good?

    I'm white, so I really don't know how it feels to be a person of color who is faced with profound discrimination on a regular basis. And my comparing flatscan to the n-word was taking it a little far, but at the same time...

    I'm a woman and how would you feel if I said that all men were awful, disgusting pigs who need to be treated with caution and general disdain?
    No words used for people being white or male or straight can ever really impact them or their position. They can laugh words off because those words hold no power over them or how society views them. No one in the MU is discriminated against because they’re a flatscan. No word Mutants can use would ever be the same because of the power structure of the MU. Flatscan is more like honky, dick or breeder. Yawn.

  6. #156
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Frankly, I'm more concerned with this comparison.

    Mutants - Growing flowers on Mars to be processed into medicine for humans. In exchange, they are looking for peace as Emma says. Using their time and resources to help humanity and themselves. She is teaching them that this "leverage" is the only way to survive and thrive.



    Humans - Building a Sentinel City on Mercury to kill mutants. Before Krakoa even existed. Using their time and resources to murder.



    I wouldn't even call this oppression at this point. It's genocide.

    What we're seeing here is a CHILD using an unfavorable word and an adult lightly reprimanding them. One of each. Just as many say, "not all humans", we know not all mutants feel this way.

    You'd probably be blown off your chairs if you heard the things I heard in school playgrounds. Does that mean my classmate's parents were bad parents? Surely not.

    All of this, to me, is incredibly real to life and that's why I find all of it superb. You have a people that are hunted by other people so there WILL be unfavorable feelings towards the hunters. That's real life. The animosity many LGBTQ people feel towards "breeders", right or wrong, is real. And I think Duggan is knocking it out of the park.
    but but but but the kid said a mean word and emma was realistic about their political and economic situation, how DARE YOU imply that human are the real villains here

  7. #157
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Sphere View Post
    If you can understand why mutie is a slur, then you understand why flatscan is a slur. The writer choosing to make the kid say those words is not an accident. When children start dropping slurs when referring to other groups the responsible in the room need to start correcting that child. If you don't you'll wind up with generation of Krakoans who think its okay to walk through a gate, say that crap, and get anything other than a negative response. They'd just be mini-Magnetos who can't keep his mutant supremacist ideas out of a conversation with humans for 2 seconds.
    because mutie has sentinels, registration, purifiers, genocide and opression behind it, it has historic value.
    flatscan has nothing of the sort, they leave the gates already expecting the usual, death and opression

  8. #158
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    I'm shocked that more people aren't talking about the Sentinel City. That shit is scary.
    Last edited by Soulsword323; 02-13-2020 at 07:01 PM.

  9. #159
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    I'm shocked that more people aren't talking about the Sentinel City. That shit's scary.
    but but but the kid said a mean word with no actual power behind it!! surely its on the same level

  10. #160
    Proud Krakoan Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    I'm shocked that more people aren't talking about the Sentinel City. That shit's scary.
    Unsanctioned by any government, drilling into and mining a vacant planet for the sole purpose of murder.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Frankly, I'm more concerned with this comparison.

    Mutants - Growing flowers on Mars to be processed into medicine for humans. In exchange, they are looking for peace as Emma says. Using their time and resources to help humanity and themselves. She is teaching them that this "leverage" is the only way to survive and thrive. "The humans get longer, better lives...".



    Humans - Building a Sentinel City on Mercury to kill mutants. Before Krakoa even existed. Using their time and resources to murder.



    I wouldn't even call this oppression at this point. It's genocide.

    What we're seeing here is a CHILD using an unfavorable word and an adult lightly reprimanding them. One of each. Just as many say, "not all humans", we know not all mutants feel this way.

    You'd probably be blown off your chairs if you heard the things I heard in school playgrounds. Does that mean my classmate's parents were bad parents? Surely not.

    All of this, to me, is incredibly real to life and that's why I find all of it superb. You have a people that are hunted by other people so there WILL be unfavorable feelings towards the hunters. That's real life. The animosity many LGBTQ people feel towards "breeders", right or wrong, is real. And I think Duggan is knocking it out of the park.
    I thought "breeders" was more about people who have kids vs people who don't? Didn't know that was LGBT.

    And the point is, well, Krakoa isn't really better. We know there's something wrong with it, we know it dosen't end well, and I question how far off it is from what Orchis is doing.

  12. #162
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I thought "breeders" was more about people who have kids vs people who don't? Didn't know that was LGBT.

    And the point is, well, Krakoa isn't really better. We know there's something wrong with it, we know it dosen't end well, and I question how far off it is from what Orchis is doing.
    i cant, i just cant. krakoa is just a nation, this is literaly a genocide operation of massive proportions.
    this is both "all lives matter" mixed with "both sides are actualy equaly bad"

  13. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Frankly, I'm more concerned with this comparison.

    Mutants - Growing flowers on Mars to be processed into medicine for humans. In exchange, they are looking for peace as Emma says. Using their time and resources to help humanity and themselves. She is teaching them that this "leverage" is the only way to survive and thrive. "The humans get longer, better lives...".



    Humans - Building a Sentinel City on Mercury to kill mutants. Before Krakoa even existed. Using their time and resources to murder.



    I wouldn't even call this oppression at this point. It's genocide.

    What we're seeing here is a CHILD using an unfavorable word and an adult lightly reprimanding them. One of each. Just as many say, "not all humans", we know not all mutants feel this way.

    You'd probably be blown off your chairs if you heard the things I heard in school playgrounds. Does that mean my classmate's parents were bad parents? Surely not.

    All of this, to me, is incredibly real to life and that's why I find all of it superb. You have a people that are hunted by other people so there WILL be unfavorable feelings towards the hunters. That's real life. The animosity many LGBTQ people feel towards "breeders", right or wrong, is real. And I think Duggan is knocking it out of the park.
    Believe me, I don't have to imagine; I remember sitting in a classroom at lunchtime doing some homework while a group of other kids were making jokes about -insert slurs for muslims.- Horrible, horrible stuff and, guess what, in adulthood those same kids still foster those same attitudes because they weren't challenged. They still contribute to hurt and harm by dehumanising a whole people. That's the problem here.

    Humans in the government responsible for that atrocity up there were able to do so because they dehumanised mutants. They don't view them as equal, they view them as beneath them--them being insulted is gonna further fuel that. On the flip side: the mutant kid who dehumanises the humans and isn't challenged on it is going to continue to believe that. Humans will forever be 'other' and god help him if he has a human kid.

    The cycle is perpetuated and continues.

  14. #164
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    I think you're missing the point here. It isn't about the systematic implications; it's that it completely cuts off any ability to empathise from both sides. It means there's less inclination or want to co-operate because, in each other's eyes "They're an asshole."
    Empathy also means never seeing the same side or “humanizing” them. These children grew up with humans and have probably seen the best and worst of humanity. This insult doesn’t have the power to keep mutants from possible cooperation. Hell, they can go through a Gate whenever they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    l(Also I am living for you, Tycon. Fight the good fight.)
    Thanks queen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    You called it
    Sadly.

  15. #165
    Proud Krakoan Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I thought "breeders" was more about people who have kids vs people who don't? Didn't know that was LGBT.

    And the point is, well, Krakoa isn't really better. We know there's something wrong with it, we know it dosen't end well, and I question how far off it is from what Orchis is doing.
    I agree that it's going to be a bumpy ride. But that's what I find fascinating about it. We're looking at realistic feelings that many people can identify with and I think that's important. At the end of the day, I'm glad there is such emotional reaction to all of this because this is how it really is out there.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

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