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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Ya know, looking back over this preview--there's a sense of militant nationalism that just rubs me the wrong way. "Use your powers for the state" is what I'm getting from Emma's speech.
    “Use your powers to maintain leverage so the flatscans don’t kill you” is what I got from that.

  2. #242

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    “Use your powers to maintain leverage so the flatscans don’t kill you” is what I got from that.
    Yeah, so "For the state." There's more to life than that.

  3. #243
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    "The very same flatscans they're referring to as flatscans." So all of humanity? That's what you're saying here? Because a human is a flatscan by default, right? And because the word carries such disparaging connotations in and of itself, this attitude is perpetuated and affirmed by its' use? And that isn't exactly the same attitude and language that needs to be challenged?
    That’s not what I’m saying at all.

    Again: This whole idea of 'punching up' just sounds like a workaround to be an arse to someone. This kid wasn't tackling a whole system here by calling humans 'flatscans'--he was using a word which paints all of humanity as evil and vile without having his view challenged. What's the actual 'necessity' in referring to someone like that? What good does it do?
    By existing against a norm is tackling a system. By not culturally assimilating and being unapologetically different from the beneficiary class, that simple existence of an other is antithetical to an oppressive system. That’s the whole point of Black Pride and Pride Parades. I just don’t understand why nothing I or anyone else is explaining to y’all isn’t getting through. We’ve explained the whole “all of humanity” thing, we’ve explained why ‘flatscan’ is different from ‘mutie’, we’ve explained why mutants don’t need to constantly sacrifice their whole being to “do some good.”

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Yeah, so "For the state." There's more to life than that.
    More like “For your survival and mutant posterity”

    There might be more to life than that for privileged humans, but mutants have to hustle.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    ?


    How many times did we see mutants out in public who weren't immediately massacred?

    And given the theory about Hickman's involvement in the Rosenburg run, isn't it fair to say that Blindfold didn't just kimm herself because of what the humans were going to do to her, but also what the mutants were going to do to her?

    In the snippets of her visions, we don't actually always see who is killing her, they're mostly faceless people, not explicitly human.

  6. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    That’s not what I’m saying at all.



    By existing against a norm is tackling a system. By not culturally assimilating and being unapologetically different from the beneficiary class, that simple existence of an other is antithetical to an oppressive system. That’s the whole point of Black Pride and Pride Parades. I just don’t understand why nothing I or anyone else is explaining to y’all isn’t getting through. We’ve explained the whole “all of humanity” thing, we’ve explained why ‘flatscan’ is different from ‘mutie’, we’ve explained why mutants don’t need to constantly sacrifice their whole being to “do some good.”
    And I still don't understand it because it doesn't make any sense.

    The celebrating of difference, something that makes you you. That I understand; that's awesome! It's the strange need to insult whole swaths of people that comes with it that's just baffling. What does that do? How does that help other than drive people of the opposing side away? Is that the point of it? A flatscan is a term for all of humanity; there's no difference there. If someone says that then they're referring to an entire group in a disparaging way. Having pride in yourself and insulting people are two completely different things.

    Working with people doesn't mean you sacrifice your whole being; it doesn't mean that in being nice and courteous to someone means that you've suddenly sacrificed your whole principals. It just seems like the exact same behaviour done...because? Because I gotta be honest I don't understand why anyone would want to discriminate against anyone.

  7. #247
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    How many times did we see mutants out in public who weren't immediately massacred?

    And given the theory about Hickman's involvement in the Rosenburg run, isn't it fair to say that Blindfold didn't just kimm herself because of what the humans were going to do to her, but also what the mutants were going to do to her?

    In the snippets of her visions, we don't actually always see who is killing her, they're mostly faceless people, not explicitly human.
    pkingdom explicitly used the example of “the darkest moments of Uncanny” where they could not in fact just step outside. There was a mandatory vaccine also going around and if you weren’t in line to get your X-Gene erased, you were getting hunted down by O*N*E

    And we already know what Blindfold’s visions were. She was placing herself in the various mutants who died over the course of Rosencanny.

  8. #248
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Sphere View Post
    Please stop. Orchis is comprised of friggin' AIM and Hydra, man. Those are already scumbag terrorist organizations. They are not humanity. This argument you're putting forth is indefensible. You jumped to Sentinel City when I pointed out the implications that children are casually dropping racial slurs. As if people on the level of the Red Skull are in any way representative of an entire species. As if Apocalypse is representative of mutantdom.
    to be fair humans from shield are also there.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  9. #249
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    That scene is one of the most badly written comic book scenes in recent memory, and they give no reason why they don't suffer any real consequences besides Logan giving them a guilt trip speech. But again, saying a hate crime happened is not the same as saying it happens to all mutants all the time.

    Are you going to give a proper reason why the Israel/Palestine thing is a terrible comparison or just snark?
    im not educating you on the ocupation of palestine, that will simply spiral this thread even further

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    pkingdom explicitly used the example of “the darkest moments of Uncanny” where they could not in fact just step outside. There was a mandatory vaccine also going around and if you weren’t in line to get your X-Gene erased, you were getting hunted down by O*N*E

    And we already know what Blindfold’s visions were. She was placing herself in the various mutants who died over the course of Rosencanny.
    Looking back, I still see those panels as Ruth's deaths.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    to be fair humans from shield are also there.
    SHIELD always sort of sucked

  12. #252
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    And I still don't understand it because it doesn't make any sense.

    The celebrating of difference, something that makes you you. That I understand; that's awesome! It's the strange need to insult whole swaths of people that comes with it that's just baffling. What does that do? How does that help other than drive people of the opposing side away? Is that the point of it? A flatscan is a term for all of humanity; there's no difference there. If someone says that then they're referring to an entire group in a disparaging way. Having pride in yourself and insulting people are two completely different things.

    Working with people doesn't mean you sacrifice your whole being; it doesn't mean that in being nice and courteous to someone means that you've suddenly sacrificed your whole principals. It just seems like the exact same behaviour done...because? Because I gotta be honest I don't understand why anyone would want to discriminate against anyone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Looking back, I still see those panels as Ruth's deaths.
    I get that’s what you interpreted, but that isn’t what those scenes were conveying.

  13. #253
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    "flatscan" isn't the same as the n-word. But, again, mutants have used that as justification for massacres too. Flatscan was literally started as a term by a group of people wanting commit genocide and slavery over the entire human race. Its not 'punching up'. Throwing a hideously botched example of using a metaphor for 'trans panic' murders doesn't prove a point besides the writer being terrible.

    I brought up the Israel/Palestine thing because its an enormously complicated political and religious situation that is often used by bad actors to say Jews/Muslims are all evil/good/one united group. You're right about Israel and western supporters basically kicking the Palestinians out of their homes, and its one of many, many factors that get ignored by said bad actors.

    Pointing out that the protagonists really shouldn't be encouraging kids to refer to humans like that is not the same as saying mutants should act like modal minorities. And going all BUT WHAT ABOUT SENTINEL CITY?! In response is ludicrous.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post




    I get that’s what you interpreted, but that isn’t what those scenes were conveying.
    I reread it and Ruth specifically says that she is killing herself because she has no future. She simply doesn't see a future for herself. She wasn't talking about the other mutants, she was talking about herself.

  15. #255

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Even more unhelpful. Don't understand it.

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