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  1. #181
    Proud Krakoan Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Where do you see mutants not doing this, though?
    X-Force. When Greenspace was being attacked it was humans killing humans and the mutants raced to save them. Domino just saved a human sympathizer from assassination.
    Psylocke put together a team to save humanity in Fallen Angels.

    And we just saw a gorgeous preview with Forge and Prodigy having entered a fun science race with a bunch of humans, starting in NYC.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  2. #182
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Not sure what you meant here; please clarify.

    But that's the thing; say the kid does go through the gate and just happily calls someone a "Flatscan," just because he can. It does have the power to keep mutants and humans cooperating because, on an individual level, that's gonna have an impact. The 'flatscan' isn't gonna like it, they're gonna either retort with "mutie" and foster further persecution towards the kid or just learn/continue to resent mutants. One is gonna wind up speaking for all in both these cases, even though they shouldn't.
    I meant “lack of empathy” my fault.

    The system isn’t persisting because of name-calling, it’s persisting because of governments and corporations funding robot cities and space stations designed to exterminate a specific species. It’s the slurs of the already marginalized that perpetuate the already established order that mutants are vermin that need to be wiped out. Mutants have a right to feel angry at the position they’re in and shouldn’t have to “yes massah” some humans so they get to live peacefully, side by side. Because whether or not the mutants are calling humans ‘flatscans’, ORCHIS is still building a Sentinel City and non-treaty countries are still holding mutants captive.
    Last edited by Tycon; 02-13-2020 at 07:16 PM.

  3. #183
    Cosmic Sandwich Metal Sphere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by houndsofluv View Post
    Its almost as if the writers are treating a complex issue as a complex issue and imbuing it with nuance
    Nailed it. Some people are intentionally ignoring the nuance with which the writer(s) are approaching this with. It's good to see this in a cape book, but too many people want their cleanly black and white tales. It's why I love the juicy Hank McCoy stuff over in X-Force.

  4. #184
    Fantastic Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    This is how I feel as well. When Mutants do something bad, it applies to every singe Mutant, but when humans do it, it doesn't.
    That can be applied to Magneto too.

    Mutant do something bad "They cant generalize"

    Human do something bad.

    "BROTHERS AND SISTERS, WE HAVE SUFFER FOR FAR TOO LONG"

    He is an hypocrite but at the end of the day, he is Magneto so it works, is a character flaw, it shows that he is biased like everyone else, the same can be applied to human villains (many of them far worst than Magneto)

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    I meant “lack of empathy” my fault.

    The system isn’t persisting because of name-calling, it’s persisting because of governments and corporations funding robot cities and space stations designed to exterminate a specific species. It’s the slurs of the already marginalized that perpetuate the already established order that mutants are vermin that need to be wiped out. Mutants have a right to feel angry at the position they’re in and shouldn’t have to “yes massah” some humans so they get to live peacefully, side by side. Because whether or not the m ur ants are calling humans ‘flatscans’, ORCHIS is still building a Sentinel City and non-treaty countries are still holding mutants captive.
    thank you, thank you

  6. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Genocide. We're talking about them wanting to erase the mutant race. A slur is not genocide.
    But here's the thing: that slur is gonna add further fuel to that fire. People like the Orchis supporters are gonna feel further vindicated. The ego can be a massive factor in these things, I think it's really being understated.

    If I, as a women, turn around and say "Why are men like this??" and I'm in front of a man who's going to see an insult in that...I've pushed them towards seeking out the kinds of men who see that as an attack. No, it wasn't my responsibility how he felt, but goddamn it ain't gonna help. It's the domino effect I'm seeing here.

  7. #187
    Proud Krakoan Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    That doesn't make sense, I'm sorry; please clarify a bit?

    You're saying that you've seen close-minded children grow into better people, even though we irl are very far away from achieving true 'peace' between us all, despite the harmful attitudes still being perpetuated...but this attitude can't be challenged in narrative?
    Basically I'm saying we can't assume that this mutant child is going to grow up into a human-hater. We don't know if he's going to walk around human towns calling people "flatscans".

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    But here's the thing: that slur is gonna add further fuel to that fire. People like the Orchis supporters are gonna feel further vindicated. The ego can be a massive factor in these things, I think it's really being understated.
    But we have to remember how it started. Humanity learned that mutants could potentially outnumber them in 20 years. So the City started being built to end them. How could a mutant NOT feel a certain way? This is the stuff that the writers are exploring.
    Last edited by Jbenito; 02-13-2020 at 07:19 PM.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsus View Post
    That can be applied to Magneto too.

    Mutant do something bad "They cant generalize"

    Human do something bad.

    "BROTHERS AND SISTERS, WE HAVE SUFFER FOR FAR TOO LONG"

    He is an hypocrite but at the end of the day, he is Magneto so it works, is a character flaw, it shows that he is biased like everyone else, the same can be applied to human villains (many of them far worst than Magneto)
    mutants are generalized by sentinels, purifiers and the goverment, they already do it.

  9. #189
    Incredible Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Please point out the nuance? All I'm seeing is a really one-sided take.
    in my mind the fact that both "sides" are pretty much done with each other's shit is where the nuance lies. in HOX we were introduced to the humans' existential anxiety surrounding potential extinction as well as the mutants coming to terms with the fact that its no longer sustainable to attempt to integrate into human society. Then the humans try to wipe em all out, meanwhile on the mutants end...What, one kid said flatscan? Compare the weight of each action. Premeditated genocide versus "fuck it, we'll just go live over here. and also give you medicine that cures any disease as long as you give us the bare minimum respect"

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    But here's the thing: that slur is gonna add further fuel to that fire. People like the Orchis supporters are gonna feel further vindicated. The ego can be a massive factor in these things, I think it's really being understated.

    If I, as a women, turn around and say "Why are men like this??" and I'm in front of a man who's going to see an insult in that...I've pushed them towards seeking out the kinds of men who see that as an attack. No, it wasn't my responsibility how he felt, but goddamn it ain't gonna help. It's the domino effect I'm seeing here.
    Most women that say that have reasons and story to do so,men with decency will be compassionate to listen to experiences they will never go trough since they are not women, not use it to justify that kind of misoginy, what kind of self blaming mind set is that???????

  11. #191
    Fantastic Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    mutants are generalized by sentinels, purifiers and the goverment, they already do it.
    Of course they do, thats where the human villains enter the picture.

  12. #192
    Cosmic Sandwich Metal Sphere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Genocide. We're talking about them wanting to erase the mutant race. A slur is not genocide.
    Supervillains attempting genocide is nothing new. Orchis is not humanity. Krakoa's government 50% individuals who would love to exterminate humanity immediately. The Quiet Council is not mutantkind.

    Being soft on slurs and letting it fester as people grew up is how you get these frothing mad-dog anti-mutant clowns. Their human friends and family never challenged it, and so it grew. It's not a mistake they had the kid saying choosing that word to describe humans. They came from a human dominated place, they know what the correct term is. They're choosing to be a problem, and the interesting tale to tell would be where they're picking it up on the island.

  13. #193
    Proud Krakoan Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Sphere View Post
    Nailed it. Some people are intentionally ignoring the nuance with which the writer(s) are approaching this with. It's good to see this in a cape book, but too many people want their cleanly black and white tales. It's why I love the juicy Hank McCoy stuff over in X-Force.
    I agree with all of this. I think it's all fascinating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Sphere View Post
    Being soft on slurs and letting it fester as people grew up is how you get these frothing mad-dog anti-mutant clowns. Their human friends and family never challenged it, and so it grew. It's not a mistake they had the kid saying choosing that word to describe humans. They came from a human dominated place, they know what the correct term is. They're choosing to be a problem, and the interesting tale to tell would be where they're picking it up on the island.
    I'm happy to agree to disagree because I think most children say "dumb" things and most don't turn out to be adult lunatics.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Sphere View Post
    Supervillains attempting genocide is nothing new. Orchis is not humanity. Krakoa's government 50% individuals who would love to exterminate humanity immediately. The Quiet Council is not mutantkind.

    Being soft on slurs and letting it fester as people grew up is how you get these frothing mad-dog anti-mutant clowns. Their human friends and family never challenged it, and so it grew. It's not a mistake they had the kid saying choosing that word to describe humans. They came from a human dominated place, they know what the correct term is. They're choosing to be a problem, and the interesting tale to tell would be where they're picking it up on the island.
    orchis literaly funded by pretty much every human organization trough the black market, its very much supported by humanity.
    and the fact you think thats how opression starts doesnt even deserve a reply over how juvenile and unimformed it is

  15. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    I meant “lack of empathy” my fault.

    The system isn’t persisting because of name-calling, it’s persisting because of governments and corporations funding robot cities and space stations designed to exterminate a specific species. It’s the slurs of the already marginalized that perpetuate the already established order that mutants are vermin that need to be wiped out. Mutants have a right to feel angry at the position they’re in and shouldn’t have to “yes massah” some humans so they get to live peacefully, side by side. Because whether or not the m ur ants are calling humans ‘flatscans’, ORCHIS is still building a Sentinel City and non-treaty countries are still holding mutants captive.
    And here's the thing; the humans who feel insulted by 'Flatscans'? They're gonna keep feeling insulted. They're gonna disengage at best or turn to the Orchis like at worse and mutants are still gonna be in the position they've been pushed into. It's not going to get better because there's still fuel for whatever misinformation people are already being fed about mutants. No, they shouldn't have to 'yes massah,' but how is not being an arse to a whole group of people that? Just not generalising is somehow a bad thing? I cannot understand this. Hold the people perpetuating the atrocities responsible, not everyone who's of their kin.

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