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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Default Is the Kylo Ren comic sort of making the character worse?

    https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-ben-solo-first-jedi-kill/ Seems between this and the first issue he seems to blunder more into the dark side than the backstory in the films would have you believe. I guess perhaps they're trying to make him more into a victim than Vader, but it comes off across as a bit clumsy, especially since the other first order villains seemed to become more cartoonish and weak as the movies went on, although Phasma had the lead with getting quickly taken down by Chewbacca and getting thrown into a trash compacter (Although her novel and comic tried to make her more interesting).
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  2. #2
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    I kind of agree with some of the points that you make. I mean the first intent Luke came to when he "looked in Ben's heart" was the kill him because it was so bad. The comic is making it looked like he was pushed more to the dark side by some half-cocked Jedi students and the Knights of Ren were some type of space punk emo club. Though I don't think that it makes Kylo Rey worse as it puts Luke's actions more out of character as explained in TLJ. When Anakin turned he had no issue killing small children, his friends to include his best friend, and even force choke his pregnant wife. Even when he took out the entire village of sand people he really didn't have all that much remorse.. their animals all of them.

    Ben now seem more and more push that way through a series of unfortunate events. Guess after his redemption in ROS it is more to sympathize with him at this point. Though I do think that it's funny that Luke kicks the Knights of Ren's ass and Ben is like -I can really learn from these guys!
    Last edited by Moon Ronin; 02-13-2020 at 02:45 PM.
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  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Yeah, not really a fan of the way that the tie-ins have been trying to absolve Kylo of the bad decisions he made and was shown to have made in the movies. Doesn't fit really well with Episodes 7 and 8 and, if nothing else. cheapens his repentance in Episode 9.
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  4. #4
    iMan 42s
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    The tie-ins just bent over backwards to justify 9.
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  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    The tie-ins just bent over backwards to justify 9.
    Don't think there's much to make "bendemption" work. Better to just accept that it's a weak point and move on.
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  6. #6
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    I respect Charles Soule...

    ...But it does seem to, in general, be a comic who’s strategic objective is arguably a little too clear, and a little too redundant/meaningless.

    It’s main MO is to try and white wash Kylo of some crimes, without, they hope, casting anymore despairing blame threads on the OT3 if possible, beyond Luke, and only really if that helps his sad man story in TLJ.

    But it can’t change what happened on the movies.

    They can modify the events of the hut as blatantly as they want for the comic, but unless they release a special edition of TLJ or TROS that puts these new retcons (effectively) on screen... they don’t matter.

    And trying to absolve him of this massacre isn’t going to do anything to stop the fact that his first five minutes of screentime had him walk on screen, murder an old man for reminding him his parents were good people, order an unnecessary mass murder, then torture a heroic character to get info... and all that before being party to and condoning a mass genocide of multiple planets (since they removed his objections from the original script), torturing the main heroine and violating her mind, killing his father and maiming the only Stormtrooper who refused to partake in his ordered mass murder and who was helping to save millions more from the next SKB blasts.

    Either you accept Ben Redemption, the kiss form Rey, and the way TROS made him the male lead over Finn, or you don’t, and probably never will.

    I mean, he has a lot of fans and a lot of people like that he story. I think that Kylo was a wasted villain because the total non-entity that was Ben Solo became an cheap addiction that LFL couldn’t quit, and that Reylo was a cancer on the series, but I know there are counterarguments out there for people who disagree with me.

    But let’s not pretend like a comic that clearly doesn’t line up with Rian Johnson’s original plot or the background that Adam Driver was working with should impact the argument about the films’ story at all.
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  7. #7
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    The last issue brings Palpatine into things.
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  8. #8
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    Though I don't think that it makes Kylo Rey worse as it puts Luke's actions more out of character as explained in TLJ.
    Luke being portrayed even more out of character? Is that even possible?
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  9. #9
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    The comics seem to make Luke a bit more cynical and sarcastic I've noticed. Looks like some of Han's attitude rubbed off on him, and maybe a bit of Obi-Wan too. He's basically the Luke we see at the end of TLJ pretty much.

    It's quite a change from the LEGENDS EU Master Luke, who seemed to mainly just continued to have his more reserved, stoic ROTJ persona for the most part.
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  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Starter Set's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Luke being portrayed even more out of character? Is that even possible?
    Exactly what i thought when i read the thread's title.

    They made Kylo Ren even worse, clumsy and pathetic than in the movies? Well, i'm impressed.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    The comics seem to make Luke a bit more cynical and sarcastic I've noticed. Looks like some of Han's attitude rubbed off on him, and maybe a bit of Obi-Wan too. He's basically the Luke we see at the end of TLJ pretty much.

    It's quite a change from the LEGENDS EU Master Luke, who seemed to mainly just continued to have his more reserved, stoic ROTJ persona for the most part.
    Yeah, I like new Luke more; the other one was really boring IMHO.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    The comics seem to make Luke a bit more cynical and sarcastic I've noticed. Looks like some of Han's attitude rubbed off on him, and maybe a bit of Obi-Wan too. He's basically the Luke we see at the end of TLJ pretty much.

    It's quite a change from the LEGENDS EU Master Luke, who seemed to mainly just continued to have his more reserved, stoic ROTJ persona for the most part.
    I miss EU Luke he was a lot more relatable for me. Personal taste aside I'm wondering when he started being more cynical.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    The comics seem to make Luke a bit more cynical and sarcastic I've noticed. Looks like some of Han's attitude rubbed off on him, and maybe a bit of Obi-Wan too. He's basically the Luke we see at the end of TLJ pretty much.

    It's quite a change from the LEGENDS EU Master Luke, who seemed to mainly just continued to have his more reserved, stoic ROTJ persona for the most part.

    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Yeah, I like new Luke more; the other one was really boring IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by MASTER-OF-SUPRISE View Post
    I miss EU Luke he was a lot more relatable for me. Personal taste aside I'm wondering when he started being more cynical.
    Luke’s characterization in the comic is an interesting comparison to Kylo/Ben’s - the comics main point and purpose for Kylo/Ben is to try and white wash the Ben personality to match the end of TROS, and to build up at least a bit the brainwashing motivation they gave him in that film, while Luke’s characterization is meant to fit with the TLJ story for Luke.

    So while the comic is trying to woobify Ben quite a bit more and try to ease off *some* of his mass murdering career to desperately try and make Rey kissing him not an underdeveloped abusive romance storyline, Luke is stuck having to match up with the cranky coward with the pretension art film-storyline from TLJ.

    Yeah, I’m still bitter, and yes, Legends was better.
    Last edited by godisawesome; 03-19-2020 at 02:13 PM.
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  14. #14
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Not that ROTJ Luke was necessarily perfect either- he still did have many doubts, and nearly botched the Han rescue a few times, in particular when plan A (The mind trick) didn't work out so well.
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