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  1. #76
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    For a brief period (and its surrounded by the idiocy of the secret id removal anyway to even enjoy the moment). But just like his last brief sabbatical, he's coming back and will take over focus, this time in the most egregious way yet.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 02-15-2020 at 12:14 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "“Your boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer!”

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    That would have happened regardless, secret id. They wanted to get rid of it for ages, repeated attempts is a clear indication . If you are talking about 5g.if it isn't jon then they would create a new character out of the blue. Didio wants gimmicks, coolness... Etc. He would get it.

  3. #78
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    I came to DC to read DC comics characters. I didn't come to DC to read Marvel-ized DC characters. The forefront of this being the whole "secret IDs are like, totes outdated, lol!"

    To say nothing of how I feel about the rest of the goings on, in not on the Super books, but DC as a whole lately.

  4. #79
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    emotionally Jor El is shown to be a little off. But not in a harmful or dangerous way. He's looking at and treats Jon as almost a peer. Unique like him. He's a little standoffish and doesn't really know how to deal with Jon in some ways, hence the quietness after Jon wants to go home. But none of that is shown as being malingnent or intentionally harmful.
    Jor-El's story under Bendis has been one of an aging, cranky grandparent who's at that point where you're thinking you should probably take the car keys from him, but he's not quite so far gone that it's worth the huge argument and hurt feelings it'll cause. And that grandparent takes his grandson on a trip, and they get into a car accident. That's all it is.

    But superheroes work in a binary morality so it's not surprising that some people can't recognize this simple shade of gray.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

  5. #80
    Spectacular Member oldschoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    Superman: For Tomorrow was the one worst Superman stories ever told.

    It's boring.
    It's makes no sense.
    The villains are forgettable.

    The only good thing about it was Jim Lee's artwork and even that doesn't help because it's not the kind of story that suits his strengths as an artist, but not that any artist could save this turd.
    I think the failure of For Tomorrow was the lack of a coherent narrative voice. BUT Brian Azarello doesn't write that way and it showed in the collaboration. The minimalist style works in some contexts, especially noir detective stories(100 Bullets), but in superhero/science fiction context its a lot more difficult to pull off. Jim Lee tends to need a stronger narrative voice any way, like a Clairmont or a Snyder. In fact, I thought Jim Lee's second try at Superman, "Unchained" was one of the best collaborations from the 2010's.
    I am committed to the idea that any work of art should be judged on its own merit, not on the behavior or beliefs of its author.

  6. #81
    Spectacular Member oldschoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by objectivewatcher2013 View Post
    I firmly believe that if Bendis could away with it, he would dissolve the Lois and Clark marriage.
    I don't see it this way. What I see is Bendis put some tension in the relationship that wasn't there before. Sure, Lois and Clark love each other, but they gotta work at a healthy relationship, just like every one else. Both of them have demands on their time that they feel committed to....and Bendis has done a good job at telling a story around those stresses on their relationship.

    I think every thing Bendis has brought to the Man of Steel has been interesting and enjoyable. He had one misfire: Legion of Super Heroes, while well launched in Superman, the first two issues have really been weak.

    Things could be way worse...….and this story line is way better than "Grounded".
    I am committed to the idea that any work of art should be judged on its own merit, not on the behavior or beliefs of its author.

  7. #82
    Spectacular Member oldschoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    I came to DC to read DC comics characters. I didn't come to DC to read Marvel-ized DC characters. The forefront of this being the whole "secret IDs are like, totes outdated, lol!"

    To say nothing of how I feel about the rest of the goings on, in not on the Super books, but DC as a whole lately.
    Have you read any Marvel books lately? The DC books have most of 'em wooped by a mile.
    I am committed to the idea that any work of art should be judged on its own merit, not on the behavior or beliefs of its author.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    I came to DC to read DC comics characters. I didn't come to DC to read Marvel-ized DC characters. The forefront of this being the whole "secret IDs are like, totes outdated, lol!"

    To say nothing of how I feel about the rest of the goings on, in not on the Super books, but DC as a whole lately.
    Not every DC character has a secret identity. Hell, some discarded theirs long before Marvel heroes became largely public.

  9. #84
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Jor-El's story under Bendis has been one of an aging, cranky grandparent who's at that point where you're thinking you should probably take the car keys from him, but he's not quite so far gone that it's worth the huge argument and hurt feelings it'll cause. And that grandparent takes his grandson on a trip, and they get into a car accident. That's all it is.

    But superheroes work in a binary morality so it's not surprising that some people can't recognize this simple shade of gray.
    That still doesn't matter. He is the same guy in oz effect. Even in bendis books he isn't let scott free. He was given capital punishment. He had secrets. He was even a cause of distruction of Krypton, if i remember correctly. The guy is the epitome of an abusive person. The first thing he did was mock the nevery ending battle. His philosophy was bound to cause distruction.He was part of all the bad conspiracies.

    No, it isn't. First, jor el isn't jon's grandfather . Sam lane is jon's grandfather. Pa kent is (if they retcon in the history). Sam and jon actually had bonded (not just the retconned inhistory) .the guy lovee him. If sam wasn't allowed to take jon. Then psycopath jerk jor el isn't.There isn't any grey here. The fact that he wasn't allowed to even meet the kid or get to know him, shows the hypocrisy of kents. Lo and behold! The kid got burned for it. He lost his entire childhood in abuse.Lois had no right to keep jon away from sam.

    By the way, rebirth has shown lois as the worst daughter.



    For the record, how is it sam's fault if lois is personally involved with her subjects?that she is biased? Sam was a better man than lois, jor el..etc.he died with honor. He protected everyone including his family.He did the right thing even when his own military and government turned against and made him a scapegoat to be executed . Jor el died like the manipulative psycopath he is. Executed.i am glad that jon was shown to be at the funeral.On the other hand, jon didn't care jor el died.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 02-15-2020 at 10:51 PM.

  10. #85
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Sam was a xenophobic bigot for much of his career. But yeah, Lois broke curfew that one time. You got me there man.

  11. #86
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    I'll rephrase, while on a space adventure that Jor-El wanted the whole family to go on, Clark included, they were accidentally sucked into a wormhole that separated Jor-El and Jon. Jor spends years searching tirelessly for his grandson and promptly saves him from the evil version of his mother. How is Jor-El the villain in the story?
    Last edited by rpmaluki; 02-15-2020 at 11:20 PM.

  12. #87
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    When did Jor-El abuse Jon?
    He didn't. There's is absolutely nothing in the actual text of the story that supports that interpretation at all.

  13. #88
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    My initial post was incorrect, i rephrased it.

  14. #89
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Sam was a xenophobic bigot for much of his career. But yeah, Lois broke curfew that one time. You got me there man.
    Yeah! In previous continuity.this continuity needs to be judged on what it has shown. clark is a vigilante who should be behind bars. Lois is a biased unprofessional journalist. I am being blunt here. It isn't derogatory . Just because nobody care,doesn't mean they aren't that.

    It isn't about curfews. She treats him horribly everytime. She dismisses him. Doesn't allow him to see his grandson for years. Only was allowed with them in the room. Which is ok. Protection of the child is of greater importance. But, jor el gets a pass. Which shows her prejudice. Atleast, sam lane tries to put his biases aside. Lois doesn't. Sam took Clark's secret to his grave. And lucy is right. Lois is self centered. It didn't matter if sam had forgive her or not. It isn't about her. Take the damn flag because its his father's right and he can't do it himself . It was epitome of disrespect.
    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    I'll rephrase, while on a space adventure that Jor-El wanted the whole family to go on, Clark included, they were accidentally sucked into a wormhole that separated Jor-El and Jon. Jor spends years searching tirelessly for his grandson and promptly saves him from the evil version of his mother. How is Jor-El the villain in the story?
    He isn't. Clois is of the story. In general, Jor el is villain because of his philosophy. He was part of conspiracies that ended Krypton. He has also killed people and tried to kill people, including the daily planet. He is deemed insane. But, has enough faculties to determine things and knows right/wrong.so, i wouldn't hold any water into that argument.
    Other thing,who the hell is jor el to jon? A stranger who hasn't earned any trust.worse he is been shown to be unstable.clois is the villain cause they didn't value their sons safety. Situation demands.but,you always bargain. Clois didn't this time.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 02-15-2020 at 11:44 PM.

  15. #90
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Denying your xenophobic dad from seeing your son because you're worried he's going to instill poor behavior on your boy doesn't make you a bad daughter. Especially when that xenophobia extends to your husband's race and half of your boy's. It makes Sam responsible for not being able to abandon poor beliefs. She doesn't feel he conducts himself in a way that her son should be exposed to, regardless of who he is, ergo he doesn't have a right to see him.

    That's a hard call when it's your own father, but that's what being a parent is about. Sam loves his daughter, not he's never been a great father to her.

    And yes, Jor-El is Jon's grandfather. He has three of them. Welcome to adoption families.

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