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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    The Dinosaur Island arc, the Super Sons intro, the Teen Titans crossover, the Bizarro World arc, half the fill ins, and several of the one shots all basically break down to Clark and Jon having adventures with Lois used sparingly and with little to no impact on the story or basically just as a framing device. So exactly like Unity.
    Even, their the structure was the same. For people to get invested in superman having a son. They needed to sell that.that is why the first arcs where focused on clark and jon. Even then, just prior to that lois was badass in Eradicator arc. Later series, didn't. They were together. Teen titans crossover was a supersons and teen titans event. It didn't have superman let alone lois. One issue of superman was used if i remember correctly and that had superman going ham on damian for no reason, other than being the kid's friend. Every, arc had this pattern. They would get stuck in the middle of something together. They would split up. They would come together. They kicked ass. Now, there isn't a coming together. Lois was used more that clark in supersons, itself. She was the strict mother. She even had a run-in with talia.

    Nope! Nothing like unity. There isn't a need for any selling anything. As if lois or clark need to be introduced to people . Jon was torn apart, people needed to get reintroduced. But, the story rushed through his bits.Even,didn't show them becoming a family again.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 02-14-2020 at 10:23 PM.

  2. #47
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Every arc did not have that pattern. Lois didn't come into the Bizzaro arc, she sat on a couch for two issues and isn't even in the third part.. She did nothing at all in the Dinosaur Island or Super Sons arcs. She was included in the others, yes. But that's why I said half and not all.

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Every arc did not have that pattern. Lois didn't come into the Bizzaro arc, she sat on a couch for two issues and isn't even in the third part.. She did nothing at all in the Dinosaur Island or Super Sons arcs. She was included in the others, yes. But that's why I said half and not all.
    You are repeating the same thing. It did, those earlier issues were used to establish the son of superman. It did its job. Otherwise people wouldn't have been invested. Supersons launch was successful because of that. As said, lois had more things to do in supersons itself than clark did. It isn't half if you exclude setting up characters that needed it. Every arc had lois doing things.
    Btw, this setting character thing. Yeah! Bendis failed miserably at that. His jon isn't over with anyone. Is wildly touted as brick with no personality . His lois had terrible voice which got better and with terrible characterisation which hasn't much changed. She was portrayed as an emo in her own book who was hounding her father. Don't get me started on her as a wife and mother. Must say sam has gotten over with me as a character. He was good.

  4. #49
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Bendis is to Lois what Tom King is to Catwoman. Sure he uses her a lot, but he writes her unlikable and annoying.

  5. #50
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    I firmly believe that if Bendis could away with it, he would dissolve the Lois and Clark marriage.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by objectivewatcher2013 View Post
    I firmly believe that if Bendis could away with it, he would dissolve the Lois and Clark marriage.
    And who exactly is stopping him? Lmao look at all the freedom they’ve given Bendis. Look at how little ***** DC gives about the Ric backlash or the Batman wedding backlash? If Bendis wanted to break them up, he would’ve done so. DC wouldn’t have stopped him, Didio doesn’t like marriages.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    And who exactly is stopping him? Lmao look at all the freedom they’ve given Bendis. Look at how little ***** DC gives about the Ric backlash or the Batman wedding backlash? If Bendis wanted to break them up, he would’ve done so. DC wouldn’t have stopped him, Didio doesn’t like marriages.
    Yeah! His freedom is restricted by pr, sales and good will with the fans.oh! I forgot his own promise. Its not that they don't care with those. They were caught of guard. Especially, wiht wedding thing. They thought they were just pulling the random will they, won't they whcich will ultimately lead to won't they. As for ric, it's know secret that dick and wally are dido's hit list. Dick himself is allowed to exist because of backlash and sales, even as ric or whatever the heck! The management wants to sink the character. Didio has no say in the matter. Customer is king. Bendis can do whatever he wants. If there readers ignore it, that is death to his writing.

  8. #53
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by objectivewatcher2013 View Post
    Show me where I'm wrong.
    Line one, post one.

    Quote Originally Posted by objectivewatcher2013 View Post
    I firmly believe that if Bendis could away with it, he would dissolve the Lois and Clark marriage.
    Most scuttlebutt I've heard is that he's the one who kind of championed the marriage. It's no secret that Didio, Lee and I think even the current Superman editor don't like a married Clark. Bendis also said he wants to build them up as the modern family of the DCU, and something of its First Family (in US Presidential terms). You may disagree with his execution, but the affection for a married Clark is there so far. Sounds more like you're projecting than staying objective, bud.
    Last edited by Robanker; 02-15-2020 at 03:10 AM.

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Yeah! I would like to get them as family before the first family thing. I would also like the reborn suit to come back. The trunks are for strongmen.Current guy ain't it.

  10. #55
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Yeah! I would like to get them as family before the first family thing. I would also like the reborn suit to come back. The trunks are for strongmen.Current guy ain't it.
    Respectfully disagree. Clark looks best in the trunks and he's been plenty strong since coming back into them.


    Some more thoughts on this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Definitely not, heh. But I will say this, if these first four generation one-shots are successful in setting up a semi-cohesive platform, that's at least something. At least then, when 5G dies hopefully a quick and merciful death, they can go back to the proper characters but can still use the same backdrop, without having to reset any farther reaching history. Stuff I don't like will probably remain, that's just the likely reality of things, that there will be a couple of elements that I'd just have to swallow if I wanted to read the main line again, but at the very least it could be a little more palatable. The pill would be a lot smaller than the one right now that I refuse to take, IOW. Of course since its this DC regime, even that much is a big if, but we'll see, and it is the one ounce of positivity I can see here.
    I will say that the one saving grace of 5G being a timejump into the future is that the way out is pretty simple. Big event comic and then stop publishing 5G, essentially retconing that future out. Is it a massive dick move? Sure, but no more than CoIE or Flashpoint or Rebirth to fans of those eras. And it gets the classics back.

    I'm really, REALLY trying to stay optimistic, but the more I read about 5G, the less I want to buy any titles. I'm likely going to cancel all my pulls at my LCS and just go week-to-week based on what books I want to read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    The Dinosaur Island arc, the Super Sons intro, the Teen Titans crossover, the Bizarro World arc, half the fill ins, and several of the one shots all basically break down to Clark and Jon having adventures with Lois used sparingly and with little to no impact on the story or basically just as a framing device. So exactly like Unity.
    Bingo. I actually really enjoy most eras of Superman, though I admit I skew harder toward Post-Crisis and Rebirth with New 52 being the nadir of my fandom for the character... And despite really liking Rebirth, Lois was reduced to "have I mentioned I'm a mom" every few issues. She was done the biggest disservice in Rebirth's Superman run because, well, she wasn't really Lois Lane. She didn't take too much shit from anyone, I'll grant you, but where was the world's leading journalist? I'd understand if her tenure was treated more like an extended maternity leave and we got a big bad arc of Lois returning to the journalism world and sending waves through the DCU and then she was back in proper form.... But we didn't quite get that, or at least I don't recall it off hand, so it must not have been very memorable.

    Complaining Lois is sidelined during the Bendis run while loving the Rebirth run is just outright petty. She has her own mini, is clearly working together with her husband and they do flirt, kiss, have sex and so on across the four books she's appearing in, save Event Leviathan if memory serves (and given it takes place during a time of crisis and her dad dies, not really the right time to do so).

    Bendis absolutely failed at writing her voice in Action #1004, but I'd argue he's gotten better each time and that he overall presents a Lois Lane more consistent with her overall publication history than the Rebirth era, and again, I really enjoyed that time.
    Last edited by Robanker; 02-15-2020 at 05:07 AM.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Yeah! He looks hollow to me in trunks. A wrapper without content. Besides, what reasoning does the guy have for wearing it?

  12. #57
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Yeah! He looks hollow to me in trunks. A wrapper without content. Besides, what reasoning does the guy have for wearing it?
    What reasoning does he have for the belt on the Rebirth suits? It holds up nothing. Why does he need a cape at all? If anything it probably gets in the way. Why did the post-reborn suit need boots? It's a flippin' onesie.

    Because it makes him look like Superman.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    What reasoning does he have for the belt on the Rebirth suits? It holds up nothing. Why does he need a cape at all? If anything it probably gets in the way. Why did the post-reborn suit need boots? It's a flippin' onesie.

    Because it makes him look like Superman.
    Cause he is a superhero like dozens of others, same with the suit. Also, it goes with the whole knights thing. Why is it a onsie for superman ? Why isn't it that for batman's ? Just because its black doesn't mean it seizes to be a onesie.

    Looking like superman is great and all.i would rather he act like one. If you are gonna make him wear the strongman suit. Then you should make him act like one. More action, less drama and less yammering. That suit has a legacy. It was worn by the Phantom. Live upto the legacy.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 02-15-2020 at 04:11 AM.

  14. #59
    Incredible Member Superbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by objectivewatcher2013 View Post
    I suppose I could be lumped into the category of Tomasi supporter. I have an honest question. What was wrong with the direction Tomasi was going? The Rebirth Costume was an excellent update. You had the fun story of the Jon/Damien dynamic. And I guarantee you the Jor El/Mr. Oz storyline wasn't meant to go the way it went. You had something really good going. Didio threw it all away for a guy's past success at Marvel. Was it worth it? You're not getting any Daredevil or Miles Morales stories. You're getting a bunch of hype about things like Leviathan, secret identity reveals, secret villain who blew up Krypton, etc, and they're duds. The stories have fizzled. He's back in the red trunks. We're right back where we were before New 52 happened. Boring hum drum stories that aren't going anywhere.
    Jon.

    Unpopular opinion here. I liked Tomasi's Rebirth Superman but hated Jon.

    He kept taking attention away from the Superman and Lois and the longtime supporting characters. Every story I thought how much better everything would be if Jon was replaced by a different character and instead of the family stuff, it was about Superman and Lois making friendships with the New 52 characters.
    Bernie2020
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  15. #60
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Cause he is a superhero like dozens of others, same with the suit. Also, it goes with the whole knights thing. Why is it a onsie for superman ? Why isn't it that for batman's ? Just because its black doesn't mean it seizes to be a onesie.

    Looking like superman is great and all.i would rather he act like one. If you are gonna make him wear the strongman suit. Then you should make him act like one. More action, less drama and less yammering. That suit has a legacy. It was worn by the Phantom. Live upto the legacy.
    Batman wears a onesie too. My point is that without the trunks, the belt is superfluous. With Batman he at least stores gadgets. Clark doesn't use those. He has no use for a belt on a onesie without the trunks. It's just there to be there, which is fine. It's a superhero costume. My entire argument is that if you're bemoaning why one element of the costume needs to be there, you're just drawing an arbitrary line in the sand because none of them serve any real function. Every iconic element (the cape, logo, boots, belt and trunks) are there because they make him look like Superman and don't "need" to be there for any reason other than that; it's recognizable. You could take the ears off of Batman and he'd still be Batman. Just wouldn't look as much like him. You can take the cape and S off of Clark and he still looks like Superman.

    2ea24ceaf46e991cea2dde0492558181.jpg

    He just looks best with all the classic elements in tow. I liked the Post-Reborn suit a lot. If we lose the trunks, that's the best it ever looked, but I still prefer the trunks.

    Clark is absolutely still a man of action. I sometimes wonder if you still read the books, dude. Everyone gets it. You want the silver age back. Don't worm it into every conversation, please. It's exhausting.

    That said, I appreciate the love for The Phantom. After Superman, he was my dad's favorite superhero back in Greece and he raved about him from time to time.

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