The Glut of Batman characters is direct result of DC’s mismanagement of the dcu.

[mathew101281]

No one wants make new characters for any other DC franchise because they know once their run is done, the new character is going to get wiped and never heard from again. Batman characters( even unpopular ones) tend to stick around. So we get treated to an ever growing number of Batman sidekicks. Do we really need four plus robins? Damian Wayne essentially killed Tim Drake’s reason for existing and now they are scrambling to find a reason for Tim to exist. When you have so many characters that they start to cannibalize each other’s roles, I thing you need to stop.

Some of this creative energy could have been used in other books. Then their are the newer villains. Half of them are either completely generic( they could have just as easily been in Green Arrow’s or some other hero’s rogue’s gallery) or redundant. What makes Batman’s rogues so good is the fact that they are twisted versions of him. I think DC really needs to spread their new character creation out. Their are many heroes that need some new villains and supporting characters, or at least some further development of the ones they have.

[iron chimp]

You'd be a mug as a freelance writer to give a global media conglomerate your new creations when you could use them yourself elsewhere to make more for you

[Midnight_v]

Today my brother and I were supposed to catch lunch. Flat tire threw him off a bit and we rescheduled but I'm one of those people always arriving early... I ended up watching this entire video

A World of Gothic Horror: The Problem With Modern Batman Stories

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4n_XdQC4mM

I have to admit I liked the take even though I ignore so many youtubers on comics in recent times.

He basically says what you're saying but ALSO that the ever expanding bat-family is bat for the gothic horror tone of many of the bat-stories.

and... almost ever writer who takes over adds a new "robin" to the franchise. Its really worth a watch even if you don't have an hour and have to skip ahead to you favorite bits.

I never read the story Arkham Asylum a serious house in a serious earth the Ideas in that are heavy as can be though and I'm glad I got to watch this.

[Bruce Wayne]

The Glut of Batman characters is direct result of DC’s mismanagement of the dcu.

It's more because there has been two very good runs of Batman first with Morrison then with Snyder that has made Batman into a sales juggernaut. In contrast none of the other DC franchises like Justice League or Superman have enjoyed this sort of success. What was the last ground shaking run of Superman or Justice League? Part of this is probably because editorial at DC has failed to nurture creativity and tried to enforce editorial mandates. The only other franchise that enjoyed some level of success was previously GL under Johns. But DC ruined that by putting in Venditti as his successor.

What makes Batman’s rogues so good is the fact that they are twisted versions of him.

DC editorial has been very well aware of this fact since at least the 80s.

[HandofPrometheus]

Too much writers always want to leave their stamp on Batman's mythos. The energy given to Batman is never given to other characters.

"When you have so many characters that they start to cannibalize each other’s roles, I thing you need to stop."

DC still have not realized this. It's annoying.

[Vampire Savior]

It's more because there has been two very good runs of Batman first with Morrison then with Snyder that has made Batman into a sales juggernaut. In contrast none of the other DC franchises like Justice League or Superman have enjoyed this sort of success. What was the last ground shaking run of Superman or Justice League? Part of this is probably because editorial at DC has failed to nurture creativity and tried to enforce editorial mandates. The only other franchise that enjoyed some level of success was previously GL under Johns. But DC ruined that by putting in Venditti as his successor.



DC editorial has been very well aware of this fact since at least the 80s.

I think I tend to agree with this view. Overall, I think the problem isn't so much Batman, it's that DC and WB have often failed to knock it out the park with their other characters. Batman has, fortunately for him, generally been handled much better than them over the years. For example, when he gets Christopher Nolan working on him, Superman gets Bryan Singer and later Zack Snyder. Batman really thrived during the New 52 with Snyder and Capullo, while Superman was a mess and revolving door for creative teams. After DC built up Green Lantern with Johns, it mystifyingly put a bunch of (with all due respect) no names at the time on the franchise, had the least popular and skilled among them lead the whole thing--Robert Venditti--and bizarrely kept him there for 5 years, killing all the momentum.

I think the other heroes would/would have fared a lot better if the quality of their comics and other media endeavors was consistently A LOT better. You're not going to build fanbases like Batman has with lukewarm to cold content. Batman got there because of good content over the years (60s show, which people liked at the time, Denny O'Neil run, Dixon and Moench comics, Keaton films, Bruce Timm cartoons, Nolan movies, Arkham games, and so on).

That said, I do think the "Bat Family" is ridiculously big and the Robin situation is more than silly.

[Agent Z]

Well this is certainly a new way to complain about the Bat family being too large (seriously how many threads on this site alone are dedicated to this topic?). The large Batfamily is a separate issue from DC's problems. In fact, it might be one of the few things they are doing right given how popular most of these characters are.

[jetengine]

Well this is certainly a new way to complain about the Bat family being too large (seriously how many threads on this site alone are dedicated to this topic). The large Batfamily is a separate issue from DC's problems. In fact, it might be one of the few things they are doing right given now popular most of these characters are.

Tbf its more "The bat fam gets to stick around because any Bat item can be monetised and sold easier then any other DC character because DC focus on Batman leading to a self perpetuating issue"

[Rise]

The question is, does DC stop their top talents from working on anyone besides Batman or the writers are simply not interested? I personally believe it's the latter.

Super had Morrison and I think Snyder too(?) all working on him, but none of them were able to create a huge success that matched their runs on Batman. Tomasi has a successful run with Batman (I personally didn't like it, but oh well), but I hardly see anyone praise his work on GL and his run on supes rebirth is still no where close to the success of his Batman.

[Agent Z]

Tbf its more "The bat fam gets to stick around because any Bat item can be monetised and sold easier then any other DC character because DC focus on Batman leading to a self perpetuating issue"

True but that is an issue that can be solved by DC and WB putting more effort into their non-Batman properties. Which is what people like the OP should be encouraging DC to do instead of making yet another thread whining about how the Bat family is too big (as if that will stop them from just putting Batman everywhere).

[scary harpy]

Tbf its more "The bat fam gets to stick around because any Bat item can be monetised and sold easier then any other DC character because DC focus on Batman leading to a self perpetuating issue"

To be really fair, the Bat-family is an easy concept to sell: acrobatic, martial artists with gadgets. No need to explain the origin of powers, the background in Greek Mythology or the allergy to space rocks.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

No one wants make new characters for any other DC franchise because they know once their run is done, the new character is going to get wiped and never heard from again. Batman characters( even unpopular ones) tend to stick around. So we get treated to an ever growing number of Batman sidekicks. Do we really need four plus robins? Damian Wayne essentially killed Tim Drake’s reason for existing and now they are scrambling to find a reason for Tim to exist. When you have so many characters that they start to cannibalize each other’s roles, I thing you need to stop.

Some of this creative energy could have been used in other books. Then their are the newer villains. Half of them are either completely generic( they could have just as easily been in Green Arrow’s or some other hero’s rogue’s gallery) or redundant. What makes Batman’s rogues so good is the fact that they are twisted versions of him. I think DC really needs to spread their new character creation out. Their are many heroes that need some new villains and supporting characters, or at least some further development of the ones they have.

I'd say you're both right and wrong. The fact that we have at least six different human Green Lanterns, not even counting Alan Scott, running around does show that DC is capable of investing in other properties in their roster. Like the Bat-family, the Green Lanterns have been built up over decades and showcase an evolving mythos. Also, the amount of Bat-characters might also just be a sign that people love Batman. And honestly, I don't think four plus Robins is that many when you consider that only one of them is actually Robin at a time. Tim was able to find a niche outside of being Robin pre-Flashpoint. He can do so again. Though, it would have helped if his Pre-FP status quo wasn't interrupted the way it was.

One could also make the argument that the amount of characters does not necessarily mean that those characters are well-handled. I mean, look at Nightwing for the past year and a half.

However, I think the other issue is that the current editorial simply does not know how to market other characters besides Batman the way that DC used to do so in the past. Either that, or they don't think other characters can ever be as successful or popular as Batman and his supporting cast. Therefore, everything in their universe has to have some connection to Batman. Popular characters that originated in other franchises are folded into the Batman franchise ala Deathstroke. Batman is made the de facto leader of the JLA able to take down characters he has no business going up against. The major events of the DCU are made to center around Batman: Dark Knights Metal, Year of the Villain (where the main villain is the Batman Who Laughs), and now Dark Knights: Death Metal. And don't get me wrong, sometimes, DC should do Batman-centric stuff, but it shouldn't be all the time.

I mean, its pretty amazing that when the first Wonder Woman film proved itself not only critically but also financially, that DC didn't even entertain the notion of doing anything bigger with Wonder Woman. Like say maybe launching a big crossover event with her at the center of it as opposed to Batman? Maybe have Ares be the main big-bad villain? But, no, we couldn't get that because Scott Snyder doesn't really have eyes for any other characters besides Bruce.

[dswynne]

No one wants make new characters for any other DC franchise because they know once their run is done, the new character is going to get wiped and never heard from again. Batman characters( even unpopular ones) tend to stick around. So we get treated to an ever growing number of Batman sidekicks. Do we really need four plus robins? Damian Wayne essentially killed Tim Drake’s reason for existing and now they are scrambling to find a reason for Tim to exist. When you have so many characters that they start to cannibalize each other’s roles, I thing you need to stop.

Some of this creative energy could have been used in other books. Then their are the newer villains. Half of them are either completely generic( they could have just as easily been in Green Arrow’s or some other hero’s rogue’s gallery) or redundant. What makes Batman’s rogues so good is the fact that they are twisted versions of him. I think DC really needs to spread their new character creation out. Their are many heroes that need some new villains and supporting characters, or at least some further development of the ones they have.

Certain characters are more popular than others, simply because of SALES, not CREATIVITY. A character's prominence, even if said character is a secondary character, is based on popularity of the character. This as very little to do with mismanagement, but more to due with the bottom line.

Then, there's the part where trademark and copyright comes into play, so a character like Tim Drake will never be killed off permanently.

And finally, there's the fact that fans will gravitate towards a particular character, which, again, helps with sales.

Personally, you are asking for the proverbial Moon, when it comes to how DC creates and treats its staple of characters, when all things are market driven.

[Digifiend]

It's not really a glut. Look at when the characters were introduced.

1930s: Bruce Wayne/Batman I
1940s: Dick Grayson/Robin I/Batman III/Nightwing, Selina Kyle/Catwoman
1960s: Barbara Gordon/Batgirl I/Oracle
1980s: Jason Todd/Robin II/Red Hood, Tim Drake/Robin III/Red Robin, Helena Bertinelli/Huntress
1990s: Stephanie Brown/Spoiler/Robin IV/Batgirl III, Cassandra Cain/Batgirl II/Black Bat/Orphan
2000s: Kate Kane/Batwoman, Damian Wayne/Robin V, Luke Fox/Batwing
2010s: Duke Thomas/Signal

Very gradual.

[scary harpy]

It's not really a glut. Look at when the characters were introduced.

1930s: Bruce Wayne/Batman I
1940s: Dick Grayson/Robin I/Batman III/Nightwing, Selina Kyle/Catwoman
1960s: Barbara Gordon/Batgirl I/Oracle
1980s: Jason Todd/Robin II/Red Hood, Tim Drake/Robin III/Red Robin, Helena Bertinelli/Huntress
1990s: Stephanie Brown/Spoiler/Robin IV/Batgirl III, Cassandra Cain/Batgirl II/Black Bat/Orphan
2000s: Kate Kane/Batwoman, Damian Wayne/Robin V, Luke Fox/Batwing
2010s: Duke Thomas/Signal

Very gradual.

1950s: Kathy Kane/Batwoman
1960s: Bette Kane/Bat-Girl