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  1. #46
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    It's not really a glut. Look at when the characters were introduced.

    1930s: Bruce Wayne/Batman I
    1940s: Dick Grayson/Robin I/Batman III/Nightwing, Selina Kyle/Catwoman
    1960s: Barbara Gordon/Batgirl I/Oracle
    1980s: Jason Todd/Robin II/Red Hood, Tim Drake/Robin III/Red Robin, Helena Bertinelli/Huntress
    1990s: Stephanie Brown/Spoiler/Robin IV/Batgirl III, Cassandra Cain/Batgirl II/Black Bat/Orphan
    2000s: Kate Kane/Batwoman, Damian Wayne/Robin V, Luke Fox/Batwing
    2010s: Duke Thomas/Signal

    Very gradual.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    It's not really a glut. Look at when the characters were introduced.

    1930s: Bruce Wayne/Batman I
    1940s: Dick Grayson/Robin I/Batman III/Nightwing, Selina Kyle/Catwoman
    1960s: Barbara Gordon/Batgirl I/Oracle
    1980s: Jason Todd/Robin II/Red Hood, Tim Drake/Robin III/Red Robin, Helena Bertinelli/Huntress
    1990s: Stephanie Brown/Spoiler/Robin IV/Batgirl III, Cassandra Cain/Batgirl II/Black Bat/Orphan
    2000s: Kate Kane/Batwoman, Damian Wayne/Robin V, Luke Fox/Batwing
    2010s: Duke Thomas/Signal

    Very gradual.
    1950s: Kathy Kane/Batwoman
    1960s: Bette Kane/Bat-Girl
    Last edited by scary harpy; 02-17-2020 at 12:21 PM. Reason: correction with thanks to Aahz.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    1950s: Kathy Kane/Batwoman, Bette Kane/Bat-Girl
    Bette Kane first appeared in 1961.

    There was also Bat-Mite in the 50s, Man-Bat in the 70s and Azrael in the 90s.

  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    No one wants make new characters for any other DC franchise because they know once their run is done, the new character is going to get wiped and never heard from again.
    The problem isn't actual "new" characters. It's what is being peddled as "new" isn't actually new.
    People/creators recycling character ideas/themes/shticks/names and just giving those same themes/names to their version, and calling that "new", without actually creating anything new, is the problem.
    That's not new, that's just your crap version of it (insert random age/gender/ethnic swap ..look it's all NEW!), No it's not. Of course later creators might want to use the classic not a derivative piece of garbage non idea.

    If creators actually created something new, unique and good, others would jump at the chance use them!

    (what worked in the silver age transition from golden age doesn't work today)
    Using legacy, riding the coattails of a previous incarnation is a great vehicle and way to intro your "new" character, but if by the end of the establishing run, the character hasn't transitioned to their own thing, with their own name, theme, identity and concept IT'S NOT NEW! Don't expect the next editors and creators to just use that derivative "non creation".
    Last edited by Güicho; 02-18-2020 at 04:48 AM.

  5. #50
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    I thought the problem is that there aren't enough DC fans/readers that can support different franchises. The exception is Batman. He has such a rich history, rogues gallery, and supporting characters while others languish way behind him because no one else cares enough to support non-Batman books. IMO DC has tried and tried but when it comes to comics, Bat stuff sells. It's too bad because no one comes close to Batman's rich history.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Green Arrow has barely any villains.
    The show used a lot them anyway, I don't get where that critique comes from
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  7. #52
    Incredible Member docmidnite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    I thought the problem is that there aren't enough DC fans/readers that can support different franchises. The exception is Batman. He has such a rich history, rogues gallery, and supporting characters while others languish way behind him because no one else cares enough to support non-Batman books. IMO DC has tried and tried but when it comes to comics, Bat stuff sells. It's too bad because no one comes close to Batman's rich history.
    The Green Lantern Mythos are deeper than Batman's and have been a franchise of multiple books twice (Once under Gerard Jones and again under Geoff Johns). DC just has to do something big again with GL to spark it into a franchise of books again (like they did with Emerald Dawn and GL: Rebirth)

    Last edited by docmidnite; 02-17-2020 at 10:52 PM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    I thought the problem is that there aren't enough DC fans/readers that can support different franchises. The exception is Batman. He has such a rich history, rogues gallery, and supporting characters while others languish way behind him because no one else cares enough to support non-Batman books. IMO DC has tried and tried but when it comes to comics, Bat stuff sells. It's too bad because no one comes close to Batman's rich history.
    They have not "tried and tried." Batman derivative characters get failed spinoffs on a yearly basis. Most other franchises are lucky to get one a decade.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    The show used a lot them anyway, I don't get where that critique comes from
    I the end it is the same with all the CW shows , the main characters (except Flash) don't really have big rogues galleries, therefore they use villains from other sources.

    In Green Arrows case they used a lot of his villains from the post COIE comics, but he doesn't have that many and most are not that developed.

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    They have not "tried and tried." Batman derivative characters get failed spinoffs on a yearly basis. Most other franchises are lucky to get one a decade.
    True... but that's also because Batman's derivative characters did sell well or have long lives in the past. Robin, Batgirl, Nightwing, Birds of Prey can hit 100 issues, so they have more confidence that even the newer Batman characters can sell a series or at least a mini.

    In Superfamily, a similar character is Supergirl and maybe Superboy

    Green Lantern, each corps except Blue got a series once, so they're confident enough to headline Jessica and Baz, now Teen Lantern. I don't know why they're not bringing back Kyle, John, and Guy yet to start a series though. John is in the League, Kyle was in Titans for a short while. Maybe because all of them are Green now and there's not enough distinction?

    Characters like Steel and Wonder Girl, I think they got one-shots, but I don't know how they sell.

    That said, Jimmy and Lois currently have series, even though they haven't starred in their own series for a long time, so it depends on how much the team wants to pitch them too. If no writers are interested, then there won't be a series.

    On Donna Troy's case, Wilson was interested in using her, but DC doesn't allow it. Probably because they want her for Infected. So there's that too.

    There's a mix between sales result, which characters the writers are interested, what DC's interested, what DC's planning at the moment, and what other writers have already planned.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I the end it is the same with all the CW shows , the main characters (except Flash) don't really have big rogues galleries, therefore they use villains from other sources.

    In Green Arrows case they used a lot of his villains from the post COIE comics, but he doesn't have that many and most are not that developed.
    DC has done an abysmal job of developing Green Arrow's villains...but he does have them.

  12. #57

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    Technically Green Arrow does have a rogues gallery and so do most characters. You can check out the big 7 or even more marquee characters like Plastic Man, Blue Beetle, Hawkman etc.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._Arrow_enemies

    Granted what defines a rogues gallery is pretty vague. And most of the big rogues were done in one shape or another. You could argue they should've been done better or whatever.

    To me, its less that the characters don't have villians. It's more the current writer(s) aren't interested in dealing with them.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 02-18-2020 at 09:49 AM.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    They have not "tried and tried." Batman derivative characters get failed spinoffs on a yearly basis. Most other franchises are lucky to get one a decade.
    100 or more solo issues

    Catwoman
    Nightwing
    Tim Drake
    Red Hood
    Babs Batgirl
    Azreal
    Batman Beyond
    Birds of Prey

    40-99 solo issues
    Cassandra Cain
    Batwing (name wise)
    Batwoman
    Joker
    Harley
    Gotham Central

    39 & under
    Duke
    Orpheus
    Damian
    Chase
    Bane
    Gotham Academy
    Mother Panic
    Azreal Michael Lane

    NOT counting Batman as the lead-
    Movies-Catwoman (In name only) & BOP
    TV-Batman Beyond, Birds of Prey & Gotham

  14. #59
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    Technically Green Arrow does have a rogues gallery and so do most characters. You can check out the big 7 or even more marquee characters like Plastic Man, Blue Beetle, Hawkman etc.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._Arrow_enemies

    Granted what defines a rogues gallery is pretty vague. And most of the big rogues were done in one shape or another. You could argue they should've been done better or whatever.

    To me, its less that the characters don't have villians. It's more the current writer(s) aren't interested in dealing with them.
    The only one they really gave any development for is Merlyn, and maybe Cupid. Some of them did pop up on the show but you wouldn't have known, they were defeated in 1 episode and that was it.

    All they had to do was pick 5 to 10 villains and give them actual development and write them better. Couldn't have been worse than Ra's Al Ghul or Damian Dhark.

    The Marvel Netflix shows have this problem too. It's just that one or two villains throughout the whole season and you don't see anyone else.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    I thought the problem is that there aren't enough DC fans/readers that can support different franchises. The exception is Batman. He has such a rich history, rogues gallery, and supporting characters while others languish way behind him because no one else cares enough to support non-Batman books. IMO DC has tried and tried but when it comes to comics, Bat stuff sells. It's too bad because no one comes close to Batman's rich history.
    There are plenty of fans.

    The issues enter into play when POLITICS of entitlement and agendas enter.

    See Green Lantern. How many folks have to scream they don't want to read about HAL JORDAN? For DC to get the hint?

    We get a Hal Jordan and TGLC book that the artist told folks it was HAL's BOOK and they wonder why sales were not that great. Alienating the other Lantern fans.
    Meanwhile Simon & Jessica's book at times did better than that one. Where are they NOW?

    Other franchises have become Highlander-there can only be ONE. With fuel to the fire being added with Jo & Lantern girl showing up. You have lost John Stewart fans. Simon's have probably left too. We won't talk about Alan Scott & Jade. Because they are tired of the agenda.
    How does a book about space police become a book worshiping ONE guy?

    The Batman franchise (at times) understands what is BEST for business. You expand not hold the franchise hostage over Silver Age lust.

    You can toss out all the new Lanterns you want but everyone sees how the OTHERS got treated. That's why they got one failed movie & Guardians of the Galaxy is on number 3.

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