The Glut of Batman characters is direct result of DC’s mismanagement of the dcu.

[SiegePerilous02]

There are plenty of fans.

The issues enter into play when POLITICS of entitlement and agendas enter.

See Green Lantern. How many folks have to scream they don't want to read about HAL JORDAN? For DC to get the hint?

We get a Hal Jordan and TGLC book that the artist told folks it was HAL's BOOK and they wonder why sales were not that great. Alienating the other Lantern fans.
Meanwhile Simon & Jessica's book at times did better than that one. Where are they NOW?

Other franchises have become Highlander-there can only be ONE. With fuel to the fire being added with Jo & Lantern girl showing up. You have lost John Stewart fans. Simon's have probably left too. We won't talk about Alan Scott & Jade. Because they are tired of the agenda.
How does a book about space police become a book worshiping ONE guy?

The Batman franchise (at times) understands what is BEST for business. You expand not hold the franchise hostage over Silver Age lust.

You can toss out all the new Lanterns you want but everyone sees how the OTHERS got treated. That's why they got one failed movie & Guardians of the Galaxy is on number 3.

Guardians is on #3 because the movies were good, whereas GL was a piece of crap. Hal being the only one in the movie is irrelevant. If it was good, we'd likely have more movies with more GLs.

His current series is also being cut short likely to cater to this 5G nonsense, despite sales by all accounts being pretty good. The "Silver Age lust" is not as much of a shield for him as you think.

[docmidnite]

Guardians is on #3 because the movies were good, whereas GL was a piece of crap. Hal being the only one in the movie is irrelevant. If it was good, we'd likely have more movies with more GLs.

His current series is also being cut short likely to cater to this 5G nonsense, despite sales by all accounts being pretty good. The "Silver Age lust" is not as much of a shield for him as you think.

Liam Sharp already said the current GL book is selling very well and the reason they have to cut Season #2 short is because of DC's next event. Also, last time I checked Hal was originally Green Lantern from 1959 to 1994 and became Green Lantern again in a 2005 to now in 2020. So he's never been part of only one particular age. But like they say, jealousy is a bitch.

[SiegePerilous02]

Liam Sharp already said the current GL book is selling very well and the reason they have to cut Season #2 short is because of DC's next event. Also, last time I checked Hal was originally Green Lantern from 1959 to 1994 and became Green Lantern again in a 2005 to now in 2020. So he's never been part of only one particular age. But like they say, jealousy is a bitch.

Yeah this one drives me nuts. Plus he's been back and the lead longer than he was gone.

"Silver Age lust" doesn't even apply to Barry entirely either since he made it to the end of the Bronze age before dying. Not Babs-as-Batgirl either since a big chunk of her fans come from the 90s cartoons.

[KangMiRae]

No one wants make new characters for any other DC franchise because they know once their run is done, the new character is going to get wiped and never heard from again. Batman characters( even unpopular ones) tend to stick around. So we get treated to an ever growing number of Batman sidekicks. Do we really need four plus robins? Damian Wayne essentially killed Tim Drake’s reason for existing and now they are scrambling to find a reason for Tim to exist. When you have so many characters that they start to cannibalize each other’s roles, I thing you need to stop.

Some of this creative energy could have been used in other books. Then their are the newer villains. Half of them are either completely generic( they could have just as easily been in Green Arrow’s or some other hero’s rogue’s gallery) or redundant. What makes Batman’s rogues so good is the fact that they are twisted versions of him. I think DC really needs to spread their new character creation out. Their are many heroes that need some new villains and supporting characters, or at least some further development of the ones they have.

You're absolutely right! We don't need that many Robins or Batgirls or sidekicks or satellite characters. Dump them all into limbo, if you ask me. Dick, Babs and Damien can stay. The rest should just go away.

[Agent Z]

Liam Sharp already said the current GL book is selling very well and the reason they have to cut Season #2 short is because of DC's next event. Also, last time I checked Hal was originally Green Lantern from 1959 to 1994 and became Green Lantern again in a 2005 to now in 2020. So he's never been part of only one particular age. But like they say, jealousy is a bitch.

Yeah this one drives me nuts. Plus he's been back and the lead longer than he was gone.

"Silver Age lust" doesn't even apply to Barry entirely either since he made it to the end of the Bronze age before dying. Not Babs-as-Batgirl either since a big chunk of her fans come from the 90s cartoons.

Just because they lasted past the era in which they debuted doesn't mean they aren't Silver Age characters.

[9th.]

It's not really a glut. Look at when the characters were introduced.

1930s: Bruce Wayne/Batman I
1940s: Dick Grayson/Robin I/Batman III/Nightwing, Selina Kyle/Catwoman
1960s: Barbara Gordon/Batgirl I/Oracle
1980s: Jason Todd/Robin II/Red Hood, Tim Drake/Robin III/Red Robin, Helena Bertinelli/Huntress
1990s: Stephanie Brown/Spoiler/Robin IV/Batgirl III, Cassandra Cain/Batgirl II/Black Bat/Orphan
2000s: Kate Kane/Batwoman, Damian Wayne/Robin V, Luke Fox/Batwing
2010s: Duke Thomas/Signal

Very gradual.

I agree, I don't why people act like they're gonna stop creating new characters just cause. That's what happens when you have a story that never ends, especially one as profitable as Batman.

[SiegePerilous02]

Just because they lasted past the era in which they debuted doesn't mean they aren't Silver Age characters.

And so what if they are? Most of Marvel's big names are Silver Age characters (or Bronze), and others like Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Aquaman and Robin are Golden Age characters.

And them being active in the Silver Age doesn't mean much to fans they obtain later on. Lots of 90s kid associate Batgirl with Barbara, and Hal got new fans when he returned in 2004 and beyond.

[Agent Z]

And so what if they are? Most of Marvel's big names are Silver Age characters (or Bronze), and others like Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Aquaman and Robin are Golden Age characters.

Yeah and Marvel is (relatively) better at managing both their Silver Age and non-Silver Age characters.

And them being active in the Silver Age doesn't mean much to fans they obtain later on. Lots of 90s kid associate Batgirl with Barbara, and Hal got new fans when he returned in 2004 and beyond.

And why do you think Babs was the Batgirl pushed in the 90s? Because the people who grew up with her as Batgirl pushed for her to be in the show. Same with people who grew up on Hal bringing him back.

[SiegePerilous02]

Yeah and Marvel is (relatively) better at managing both their Silver Age and non-Silver Age characters.



And why do you think Babs was the Batgirl pushed in the 90s? Because the people who grew up with her as Batgirl pushed for her to be in the show. Same with people who grew up on Hal bringing him back.

Marvel's a little better, but what helps them is there is less overlap in identities being shared and characters stepping on each others toes. For example, their biggest post-Silver age successes are probably the X-Men, and with a couple exceptions there aren't many duplicates there. Even then they value some more than others.

They didn't have to push hard for Babs in the show, the only other alternative at the time was Betty and she had already surpassed her. So she's not a Silver age era-only character if we are looking beyond just comics. Batgirl is a 90s persona for Babs as well and it was a LOT of peoples first introduction to her. Hal similarly was brought back by people who grew up with him, but he's acquired other fans since then. DC perhaps over emphasizes him (though that doesn't make him safe from stuff like 5G evidently), but since the major aspects of the GL mythos were built around him and other Lanterns haven't consistently had definitive runs as the leads or any consistent major additions to the mythos (not like Wally as the Flash), it is perhaps not surprising that Hal is treated as the default the way Bruce, Clark and Diana are.

[Agent Z]

Marvel's a little better, but what helps them is there is less overlap in identities being shared and characters stepping on each others toes. For example, their biggest post-Silver age successes are probably the X-Men, and with a couple exceptions there aren't many duplicates there. Even then they value some more than others.

Marvel has two Spider-Men and two Hawkeyes. They also aren't as quick to reverse a character's transformation like with Carol Danvers or Hank Pym.

They didn't have to push hard for Babs in the show, the only other alternative at the time was Betty and she had already surpassed her. So she's not a Silver age era-only character if we are looking beyond just comics. Batgirl is a 90s persona for Babs as well and it was a LOT of peoples first introduction to her. Hal similarly was brought back by people who grew up with him, but he's acquired other fans since then. DC perhaps over emphasizes him (though that doesn't make him safe from stuff like 5G evidently), but since the major aspects of the GL mythos were built around him and other Lanterns haven't consistently had definitive runs as the leads or any consistent major additions to the mythos (not like Wally as the Flash), it is perhaps not surprising that Hal is treated as the default the way Bruce, Clark and Diana are.

And what about when Cass became Batgirl and there were other options besides Babs or Betty? Also, it's too bad being introduced to the 90s audience first didn't help Wally and John.

[SiegePerilous02]

And what about when Cass became Batgirl and there were other options besides Babs or Betty? Also, it's too bad being introduced to the 90s audience first didn't help Wally and John.

Two Spider-Mans, but there is little doubt who is the main one that they will not be getting rid of. Into the Spider-Verse is hugely successful, but even then ran with Miles being part of the Multiverse.

The 90s cartoons ended just as Cass was being introduced (if not sooner) there was no way for them to implement her if they wanted to.
Wally and John weren't introduced to a 90s audience, it was an early 2000s one. In a cartoon with an ensemble cast that couldn't delve into each mythos in too much depth. And Wally had Barry's origin and job. When Kyle showed up, he was given brown hair and some of Hal's origin. John was given some of Hal's dynamic with Sinestro in Static Shock. That kind of reinforces that Hal is the main one, because they keep taking his stuff.

[phonogram12]

The trouble with "appealing to fans" as a guideline is that you will only reach the same people over and over again, and seldom manage to tell something new.

QFT. Fans and editorial alike are equally to blame (although for whatever reason, I tend to lay more blame on fans since many refuse to accept anything new).

[Aahz]

The 90s cartoons ended just as Cass was being introduced (if not sooner) there was no way for them to implement her if they wanted to.

I looked it up, the Batman the New Adventures ended in January of 1999, Cass had her first appearance in July of 1999, so the series really ended before Cass was introduced.

They could have brought in Spoiler who first appeared 1992.

[Aahz]

Also, it's too bad being introduced to the 90s audience first didn't help Wally and John.

When it comes to Wally most casual viewers will probably not be able to tell the difference between him an Barry, they have the same powers and look pretty much the same in costume, and we don't really see much of him outside of the costume and outside of the Justice League.

When it comes to John it helped him in sofar that he was put in the Justice League in several Runs in the comics, instead of the Green Lantern who was the protagonist of the solo book at the time.

[SiegePerilous02]

I looked it up, the Batman the New Adventures ended in January of 1999, Cass had her first appearance in July of 1999, so the series really ended before Cass was introduced.

They could have brought in Spoiler who first appeared 1992.

They could have more easily used Spoiler. But they were basing their cartoon off of the Bronze age mostly, plus TDKR, Burton and some Silver age stuff. They didn't have a high opinion of Bane and I believe the were forced to use him. So I'm doubtful they'd be inclined to use Spoiler or Azrael. They would have rather used Jason than Tim.

Though I hear somewhere (I think maybe the Dvd commentary?) that Tim's blonde wife in Return of the Joker was meant to be Steph, or a nod to her.