Shouldn't AI Rights have been settled by now in the Marvel U?

[Chris0013]

With the events in the IM2020 stuff and even going back to the AI Avengers we have seen racial tensions between organics and mechs/AIs. But considering how long artificial life has been around shouldn't sentient rights have been established by now? Jim Hammond has been around since 1939 and fought in a war. Vision and Jocasta have been Avengers and Vision actually was legally married. With the number of AIs running around you would think that at least one of them would have gone to court or some such to be recognized as sentient and have all their rights affirmed and respected.

[Sutekh]

They haven't settled mutant rights, or really dealt with the legal status of Inhumans or Atlanteans, let alone Deviants, Eternals, etc. so I don't think the UN in the Marvel Universe is all that up on this stuff.

Especially when dealing with the, like three or four 'machine people' out there. Quick Jocasta, Vision, Jim Hammond and Machine Man, use your vast lobbying arm to get Congress to legislate on this pressing issue that affect almost exactly 0.00000000000001% of their constituency!

I blame the Latverian ambassador for constantly spoiling the votes.

Seriously though, as of the eighties, when the US govt kidnapped and mind-wiped the Vision, it seems like 'machines don't have rights' is the rule. If Wanda and Vision are 'legally' married, it might have been a one-off thing, officiated by an especially open-minded clergyman or city official, and not something that the federal government ever really saw fit to either recognize or dispute (and since it ended without any sort of legal divorce, it seems that the official response of 'ignore it until it goes away' was the economically sensible choice).

There was no political benefit to either recognizing, or standing opposed to, this, until now, so I suppose it makes sense, in a world full of gods, aliens, mutants, etc. to let those half-dozen robot-people just do their thing. Now that there is an actual movement, there will be more of a call to do something about it, and, no doubt, some people asking this very question, 'why wasn't anything done until NOW?'

Plus, someone somewhere probably thought, "Do we want to kick this hornet's nest, and possibly give *Ultron* 'human rights?' Or do we prefer a world where his legal status is 'blow his genocidal toaster ass up.'"

[Ascended]

They haven't settled mutant rights, or really dealt with the legal status of Inhumans or Atlanteans, let alone Deviants, Eternals, etc. so I don't think the UN in the Marvel Universe is all that up on this stuff.

Especially when dealing with the, like three or four 'machine people' out there. Quick Jocasta, Vision, Jim Hammond and Machine Man, use your vast lobbying arm to get Congress to legislate on this pressing issue that affect almost exactly 0.00000000000001% of their constituency!

I blame the Latverian ambassador for constantly spoiling the votes.

Seriously though, as of the eighties, when the US govt kidnapped and mind-wiped the Vision, it seems like 'machines don't have rights' is the rule. If Wanda and Vision are 'legally' married, it might have been a one-off thing, officiated by an especially open-minded clergyman or city official, and not something that the federal government ever really saw fit to either recognize or dispute (and since it ended without any sort of legal divorce, it seems that the official response of 'ignore it until it goes away' was the economically sensible choice).

There was no political benefit to either recognizing, or standing opposed to, this, until now, so I suppose it makes sense, in a world full of gods, aliens, mutants, etc. to let those half-dozen robot-people just do their thing. Now that there is an actual movement, there will be more of a call to do something about it, and, no doubt, some people asking this very question, 'why wasn't anything done until NOW?'

All of this.

And also we still don't actually have equal rights for women yet. Women! Half the population have fewer legal rights (it's true, look it up, or watch "On the basis of sex" which is a great film and touches on the subject and will be more entertaining than a Google search) than the rest of us, so why should we expect better for AI?

[Chris0013]

They haven't settled mutant rights, or really dealt with the legal status of Inhumans or Atlanteans, let alone Deviants, Eternals, etc. so I don't think the UN in the Marvel Universe is all that up on this stuff.

Especially when dealing with the, like three or four 'machine people' out there. Quick Jocasta, Vision, Jim Hammond and Machine Man, use your vast lobbying arm to get Congress to legislate on this pressing issue that affect almost exactly 0.00000000000001% of their constituency!

I blame the Latverian ambassador for constantly spoiling the votes.

Seriously though, as of the eighties, when the US govt kidnapped and mind-wiped the Vision, it seems like 'machines don't have rights' is the rule. If Wanda and Vision are 'legally' married, it might have been a one-off thing, officiated by an especially open-minded clergyman or city official, and not something that the federal government ever really saw fit to either recognize or dispute (and since it ended without any sort of legal divorce, it seems that the official response of 'ignore it until it goes away' was the economically sensible choice).

There was no political benefit to either recognizing, or standing opposed to, this, until now, so I suppose it makes sense, in a world full of gods, aliens, mutants, etc. to let those half-dozen robot-people just do their thing. Now that there is an actual movement, there will be more of a call to do something about it, and, no doubt, some people asking this very question, 'why wasn't anything done until NOW?'

Plus, someone somewhere probably thought, "Do we want to kick this hornet's nest, and possibly give *Ultron* 'human rights?' Or do we prefer a world where his legal status is 'blow his genocidal toaster ass up.'"

That's something I posted about in the X-Men forums...'where are the lawsuits?' Where is the mutant who was discriminated against and took it to court?? Benjamin Deeds was kicked out of college for being a mutant ...and joins Cyclops's team of X-Men. Perfect opportunity to lawyer up and fight for mutant rights in court and they just say..."no...let's have him join a group of mutant outlaws."

That is what I want to see...real world solutions to mutant/AI/superhuman issues.

[Ultimate Captain America]

Vision and Scarlet Witch are not legally married. They were married by Immortus. He may be the lord of Limbo and watcher of the timestream, but he has no legal authority to conduct any wedding.

[king of hybrids]

At a wager the legal ambiguity of AI probably has something to do with various government and private figures perpetually trying to construct armies of hot pink murderbots that are invariably either defeated or turn on humanity

Because shockingly an armchair anthropologist with too much money is bad at programming

[XPac]

If you're talking about maybe half a dozen robot/androids tops, most of which happen to be buddies with Steve Rogers and/or Tony Stark, it's easier to just allow them specifically to get whatever perks they and their high powered buddies want rather than create legislature dealing with all AI as a whole. And those perks can clearly be taken away when needed, as the government did kidnap and dissect Vision in Byrnes West Coast Avengers run. They still treated him like a toaster when it was convenient to do so... and if they're going to do that with Vision, really no AI is likely going to get better treatment at least in the near future.

As long as guys like Vision and Hammond on a case by case basis are treated as well as they need to be treated, no one will complain enough for anything more that needs to be done.

[Anthony W]

That's something I posted about in the X-Men forums...'where are the lawsuits?' Where is the mutant who was discriminated against and took it to court?? Benjamin Deeds was kicked out of college for being a mutant ...and joins Cyclops's team of X-Men. Perfect opportunity to lawyer up and fight for mutant rights in court and they just say..."no...let's have him join a group of mutant outlaws."

That is what I want to see...real world solutions to mutant/AI/superhuman issues.

Furthermore...where are the mutants that are tolerated or even loved by humanity? Every hated minority group has some people that manage to break through.

Yet mutants never have that.

[Sutekh]

Furthermore...where are the mutants that are tolerated or even loved by humanity? Every hated minority group has some people that manage to break through.

Yet mutants never have that.

Yeah, where's our mutant Elton?

[Ultimate Captain America]

There's Dazzler

[MyriVerse]

Yeah, where's our mutant Elton?

Beast is loved.
Angel is loved.
And there's Dazzler.
Cyclops had a very devoted human following when he was talking about some revolution or something.
The X-Men have been considered celebs in places like France and Japan (heck, Sunfire is/was their national hero).

TBH, the whole hate thing comes across as more of a lie than threat.

[jackolover]

They haven't settled mutant rights, or really dealt with the legal status of Inhumans or Atlanteans, let alone Deviants, Eternals, etc. so I don't think the UN in the Marvel Universe is all that up on this stuff.

Especially when dealing with the, like three or four 'machine people' out there. Quick Jocasta, Vision, Jim Hammond and Machine Man, use your vast lobbying arm to get Congress to legislate on this pressing issue that affect almost exactly 0.00000000000001% of their constituency!

I blame the Latverian ambassador for constantly spoiling the votes.

Seriously though, as of the eighties, when the US govt kidnapped and mind-wiped the Vision, it seems like 'machines don't have rights' is the rule. If Wanda and Vision are 'legally' married, it might have been a one-off thing, officiated by an especially open-minded clergyman or city official, and not something that the federal government ever really saw fit to either recognize or dispute (and since it ended without any sort of legal divorce, it seems that the official response of 'ignore it until it goes away' was the economically sensible choice).

There was no political benefit to either recognizing, or standing opposed to, this, until now, so I suppose it makes sense, in a world full of gods, aliens, mutants, etc. to let those half-dozen robot-people just do their thing. Now that there is an actual movement, there will be more of a call to do something about it, and, no doubt, some people asking this very question, 'why wasn't anything done until NOW?'

Plus, someone somewhere probably thought, "Do we want to kick this hornet's nest, and possibly give *Ultron* 'human rights?' Or do we prefer a world where his legal status is 'blow his genocidal toaster ass up.'"

Or Ultron in Alaska. Though Ultron comes off as a rather genocidal maniac, even God Doom gave him his own Barony in Battleworld. Earth? Maybe it’s too touchy a subject considering the Avengers experience, but I think Ultron has really come around to allowing humans to live. Unlike Terminator, that has a one track mind, Ultron seems to have earned a region on Earth where he can exist without it turning into World War III. I’m a big advocate of negotiated Truces with the villain community, and it basically comes down to, if you can’t kill them, eliminate them or nullify them, the villains will always be there, so why not settle on each other’s play house, and lets get on with living. It’s not as though the real world hasn’t had to do the same thing with Iran and North Korea, so why not the obnoxious AI.

[Sutekh]

Or Ultron in Alaska. Though Ultron comes off as a rather genocidal maniac, even God Doom gave him his own Barony in Battleworld. Earth? Maybe it’s too touchy a subject considering the Avengers experience, but I think Ultron has really come around to allowing humans to live. Unlike Terminator, that has a one track mind, Ultron seems to have earned a region on Earth where he can exist without it turning into World War III. I’m a big advocate of negotiated Truces with the villain community, and it basically comes down to, if you can’t kill them, eliminate them or nullify them, the villains will always be there, so why not settle on each other’s play house, and lets get on with living. It’s not as though the real world hasn’t had to do the same thing with Iran and North Korea, so why not the obnoxious AI.

A machine-intelligence friendly UN could allot the machine intelligences with some land that nobody alive can actually use, like a chunk of territory in Antactica, or some non-Blue-Area part of the bright side of the moon, where they'd be able to survive the harsh environment, and still have access to ample sunlight for power (and being able to drill for material for construction).

But really, I don't expect the UN to be all that friendly, as it's in exactly nobody's national self-interest to give away even land that nobody is going to be able to use or develop anyway in our lifetimes...

Assuming Ultron ever got rights of any sort, he's got thousands of murders on his record, and some sort of war crimes / genocide tribunal before the international court at the Hague is more likely than to be granted land somewhere to form an AI nation and welcomed into the international community. (Other machine intelligences, like the Vision, Jim Hammond, Jocasta or Machine Man would be more likely choices, particularly Jim Hammond, who could be seen as a 'safe choice,' politically, having been a WW2 war hero, and not one of the usual agitators for machine rights, like Machine Man, or having ever hacked the US government, like the Vision.)

[Huntsman Spider]

A machine-intelligence friendly UN could allot the machine intelligences with some land that nobody alive can actually use, like a chunk of territory in Antactica, or some non-Blue-Area part of the bright side of the moon, where they'd be able to survive the harsh environment, and still have access to ample sunlight for power (and being able to drill for material for construction).

But really, I don't expect the UN to be all that friendly, as it's in exactly nobody's national self-interest to give away even land that nobody is going to be able to use or develop anyway in our lifetimes...

Assuming Ultron ever got rights of any sort, he's got thousands of murders on his record, and some sort of war crimes / genocide tribunal before the international court at the Hague is more likely than to be granted land somewhere to form an AI nation and welcomed into the international community. (Other machine intelligences, like the Vision, Jim Hammond, Jocasta or Machine Man would be more likely choices, particularly Jim Hammond, who could be seen as a 'safe choice,' politically, having been a WW2 war hero, and not one of the usual agitators for machine rights, like Machine Man, or having ever hacked the US government, like the Vision.)

After Rage of Ultron and his return in Uncanny Avengers by Gerry Duggan, that body count would be in multiple billions, since he was apparently rampaging through the galaxy/universe slaughtering entire civilizations and telling the survivors to blame the Avengers for it, in hopes that they would come to Earth and destroy it (and the Avengers) in misguided retribution. Not sure if an Earthbound tribunal would consider extraterrestrial massacres, but if Ultron ever would gain legal standing, it would most likely be just for the purpose of standing trial for his past carnage.

[Chris0013]

A machine-intelligence friendly UN could allot the machine intelligences with some land that nobody alive can actually use, like a chunk of territory in Antactica, or some non-Blue-Area part of the bright side of the moon, where they'd be able to survive the harsh environment, and still have access to ample sunlight for power (and being able to drill for material for construction).

But really, I don't expect the UN to be all that friendly, as it's in exactly nobody's national self-interest to give away even land that nobody is going to be able to use or develop anyway in our lifetimes...

Assuming Ultron ever got rights of any sort, he's got thousands of murders on his record, and some sort of war crimes / genocide tribunal before the international court at the Hague is more likely than to be granted land somewhere to form an AI nation and welcomed into the international community. (Other machine intelligences, like the Vision, Jim Hammond, Jocasta or Machine Man would be more likely choices, particularly Jim Hammond, who could be seen as a 'safe choice,' politically, having been a WW2 war hero, and not one of the usual agitators for machine rights, like Machine Man, or having ever hacked the US government, like the Vision.)

After Rage of Ultron and his return in Uncanny Avengers by Gerry Duggan, that body count would be in multiple billions, since he was apparently rampaging through the galaxy/universe slaughtering entire civilizations and telling the survivors to blame the Avengers for it, in hopes that they would come to Earth and destroy it (and the Avengers) in misguided retribution. Not sure if an Earthbound tribunal would consider extraterrestrial massacres, but if Ultron ever would gain legal standing, it would most likely be just for the purpose of standing trial for his past carnage.

And this is what I am talking about. Ultron, Hammond, Machine Man, Jocosta, etc...would all be recognized to have sentience and legal rights. And if Ultron was captured he would most likely be put on trial for crimes against humanity and executed after his conviction.