The Box Office

[inisideguy]

Sheesh this Shazam film is an absolute bomb. Your looking at worse than Green Lantern numbers here.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Sheesh this Shazam film is an absolute bomb. Your looking at worse than Green Lantern numbers here.

The only saving grace is ...well its not as big a bomb as Green Lantern. It is gonna bomb but nothing like that.

[Jokerz79]

I don't see it. I don't see HBOMax pulling in enough new subs to make that claim.

All anyone talked about after the Superbowl Flash trailer was Keaton back as Batman.

[kingaliencracker]

The Phase 4 underperforming is a huge Myth IMO.

Black Widow, Shang-Chi, and Eternals were released while Covid-19 protocols were in place in areas. Black Widow also had a Disney+ same day release and made 60 million in pure profit from it not sharing with theaters while Eternals has been the MCU most watched movie on D+.

While Multiverse of Madness made close to 956 million dollars, Wakanda Forever almost 878 million, and Love and Thunder made 760 million just 10 million less than the Batman. Quantumania is the only one to seem to truly underperform because the 2021 films had obstacles that were beyond their controls.

in 2019 9 movies did over a billion dollars in 2020 none, 2021 one No Way Home and in 2022 3 Avatar 2, Top Gun Maverick, & Jurassic World Dominion. This year none so far but ironically the highest grossing film released this year so far is Quantumania.

This is less Superhero fatigue but the ripple effects of the Pandemic which will be felt probably for a few more years. The way this might affect the Superhero genre is due to their budgets Studios might want to release less of them and concentrate on lower budget films where lower box offices bring in higher profits.

Yet Wakanda Forever made $500 million less than its predecessor, Thor made $100 million less, Ant-Man $200 million less despite featuring the next MCU villain prominently.

Doctor Strange 2 made more than its predecessor but also had one of the largest drops from weekend to weekend for the MCU. Meanwhile, movies like Avatar 2, Top Gun 2, and even Jurassic World cleared a billion relatively easy.

Certainly the pandemic has had an impact. But if you don't see that there is fatigue settling in for both fans and critics, you're sorely mistaken.

[thwhtGuardian]

All anyone talked about after the Superbowl Flash trailer was Keaton back as Batman.

I'm happy for Fraiser, I've loved him since Encino Man...but I don't think he'd save a movie just by being in it. We'll likely never know if Batgirl was good or bad, so maybe his oscar buzz could have helped but what little we saw didn't look promising so I'm doubtful.

[thwhtGuardian]

Yet Wakanda Forever made $500 million less than its predecessor, Thor made $100 million less, Ant-Man $200 million less despite featuring the next MCU villain prominently.

Doctor Strange 2 made more than its predecessor but also had one of the largest drops from weekend to weekend for the MCU. Meanwhile, movies like Avatar 2, Top Gun 2, and even Jurassic World cleared a billion relatively easy.

Certainly the pandemic has had an impact. But if you don't see that there is fatigue settling in for both fans and critics, you're sorely mistaken.

People have been saying it for well over a decade now, so why should we take someone yelling, "The sky is falling!" seriously now?

Oh they made slightly less money?

News flash, those films still made them boat loads of cash and were among the most profitable the year they were released.

And I won't even touch the absurdity of the convoluted knots you're tying yourself in with that Doctor Strange bit.

[kingaliencracker]

People have been saying it for well over a decade now, so why should we take someone yelling, "The sky is falling!" seriously now?

I don't know of anyone who was saying this a decade ago but now we have critical and box office proof that fans aren't flocking to the theaters to see these movies as they were pre-Endgame. You also have Disney coming out and acknowledging they need to dial it back.

[thwhtGuardian]

I don't know of anyone who was saying this a decade ago but now we have critical and box office proof that fans aren't flocking to the theaters to see these movies as they were pre-Endgame. You also have Disney coming out and acknowledging they need to dial it back.

You don't though, you have half-assed manipulations of data that feed a conclusion totally detached from reality. Four of the top ten highest grossing films in the world during 2022 were superhero films(and 5 out of 15 if you go further) which is more than any other genre of film, 2021 had three of the top ten spots (with again 5 out of 15)...so how is that fatigue?

You just have to own that you said something really silly and move on.

[kingaliencracker]

You don't though, you have half-assed manipulations of data that feed a conclusion totally detached from reality.

Obviously I triggered a negative response in you friend, which was certainly not my intent.

I'm not manipulating anything. The results are the results. This has been the worst-reviewed phase of the MCU and only two of the sequels released out-grossed their predecessor. One of those sequels featured the return of Toby Maguire and Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man, the other experienced the worst weekend-to-weekend drop of the MCU films up to that point. And again, Disney is even acknowledging this phase's problems publicly.

Fans can excuse that or explain that away however they want. I'm not saying this is the end of super hero movies or that things can't get back on track. But to me, it's clear that there needs to be a willingness to evolve and take chances, rather than stick with the current formula.

[thwhtGuardian]

Obviously I triggered a negative response in you friend, which was certainly not my intent.

I'm not manipulating anything. The results are the results. This has been the worst-reviewed phase of the MCU and only two of the sequels released out-grossed their predecessor. One of those sequels featured the return of Toby Maguire and Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man, the other experienced the worst weekend-to-weekend drop of the MCU films up to that point. And again, Disney is even acknowledging this phase's problems publicly.

Fans can excuse that or explain that away however they want. I'm not saying this is the end of super hero movies or that things can't get back on track. But to me, it's clear that there needs to be a willingness to evolve and take chances, rather than stick with the current formula.

It's not a negative response...it's just that reality doesn't support what you are saying at all. You are tying yourself into all kinds of weird knots to support your pov.

This film had fan beloved former actors of the role... so that doesn't count as something that discounts my point.

Absurd.

Yeah, that film did better than it's first...but it had a big drop despite being wildly successful(#4 highest grossing film of '22) so it totally doesn't count.

Ludicrous.


Now, you can say that you don't personally like the latest crop of superhero films(they aren't all my cup of tea either) and that you prefer the earlier phases. You can even say that the latest phase hasn't been as successful as the last(but it' s still making buckets of money for the studious)...but all of that is very different than saying that we're seeing superhero fatigue. Superhero films are still very much one of the most popular genre of films getting made today and it doesn't appear to be changing.

So yeah...just own that "fatigue" is silly and move on.

[Jokerz79]

Yet Wakanda Forever made $500 million less than its predecessor, Thor made $100 million less, Ant-Man $200 million less despite featuring the next MCU villain prominently.

Doctor Strange 2 made more than its predecessor but also had one of the largest drops from weekend to weekend for the MCU. Meanwhile, movies like Avatar 2, Top Gun 2, and even Jurassic World cleared a billion relatively easy.

Certainly the pandemic has had an impact. But if you don't see that there is fatigue settling in for both fans and critics, you're sorely mistaken.

& yet Superman 1978 made 300 million and Superman II 190 million Batman 1989 made 411 million and Batman Returns made 266 million. Spider-Man 825 million and Spider-Man 2 789 million Phantom Menace did over a billion while Attack of the Clones only did 653 million and Force Awakens did over 2 billion while TLJ did over a billion. Black Panther was a culture event much like the other films I mentioned they were films it seemed everyone saw, and the sequels always do way less.

Both Jurassic Park Dominion and Avatar 2 had China releases something every Phase 4 Marvel movie outside of Wakanda Forever which got a late one and Quantumania.

People say fatigue without examining historical context or other factors.

Number 1 movie of 2023 at the moment Quantumania. The top ten worldwide films of 2022 had 4 superhero movies Multiverse of Madness, Wakanda Forever, The Batman, & Love and Thunder. 2021 had 3 top ten superhero movies Superhero films aren't pulling in pre pandemic numbers but they're still a head of most of the pack.

[Pinsir]

You don't though, you have half-assed manipulations of data that feed a conclusion totally detached from reality. Four of the top ten highest grossing films in the world during 2022 were superhero films(and 5 out of 15 if you go further) which is more than any other genre of film, 2021 had three of the top ten spots (with again 5 out of 15)...so how is that fatigue?

You just have to own that you said something really silly and move on.

It is entirely possible for superhero movies to be over represented in the box office and still be in decline though, because the overall box office is in decline.

[kingaliencracker]

It's not a negative response...it's just that reality doesn't support what you are saying at all. You are tying yourself into all kinds of weird knots to support your pov.

This film had fan beloved former actors of the role... so that doesn't count as something that discounts my point.

Absurd.

Yeah, that film did better than it's first...but it had a big drop despite being wildly successful(#4 highest grossing film of '22) so it totally doesn't count.

Ludicrous.


Now, you can say that you don't personally like the latest crop of superhero films(they aren't all my cup of tea either) and that you prefer the earlier phases. You can even say that the latest phase hasn't been as successful as the last(but it' s still making buckets of money for the studious)...but all of that is very different than saying that we're seeing superhero fatigue. Superhero films are still very much one of the most popular genre of films getting made today and it doesn't appear to be changing.

So yeah...just own that "fatigue" is silly and move on.

I won't move on, but you're welcome to ignore my posts friend if it bothers you that much.

[kingaliencracker]

& yet Superman 1978 made 300 million and Superman II 190 million Batman 1989 made 411 million and Batman Returns made 266 million. Spider-Man 825 million and Spider-Man 2 789 million Phantom Menace did over a billion while Attack of the Clones only did 653 million and Force Awakens did over 2 billion while TLJ did over a billion. Black Panther was a culture event much like the other films I mentioned they were films it seemed everyone saw, and the sequels always do way less.

Both Jurassic Park Dominion and Avatar 2 had China releases something every Phase 4 Marvel movie outside of Wakanda Forever which got a late one and Quantumania.

People say fatigue without examining historical context or other factors.

Number 1 movie of 2023 at the moment Quantumania. The top ten worldwide films of 2022 had 4 superhero movies Multiverse of Madness, Wakanda Forever, The Batman, & Love and Thunder. 2021 had 3 top ten superhero movies Superhero films aren't pulling in pre pandemic numbers but they're still a head of most of the pack.

I'm pointing out recent historical context with the MCU specifically in that each sequel (with the exception of Iron Man 2) had out-grossed its predecessor, up until Phase 4. I understand not releasing in China is an issue, but also an issue has been the mediocre reviews Phase 4 has received generally speaking from critics and fans. To think that's not factoring into the overall decrease in box office is erroneous, IMO.

Point blank, this has been a weak phase for Marvel, critically, box office, and from fans. That's not my opinion - that's what the numbers show. I understand the movies are still number one and still ranking high for the year. That doesn't change anything I've said.

[kingaliencracker]

It is entirely possible for superhero movies to be over represented in the box office and still be in decline though, because the overall box office is in decline.

I think this is kind of my point, so thanks for saying it in simple terms.

I think what's also being ignored by those who have responded to me is that this has been the worst-reviewed phase, both from fans and critics, of the MCU. Again, that's not my opinion of it - that's what the numbers show. To think that, in addition to the box office decline, isn't a sign that audiences OVERALL and critics OVERALL are burning out on super hero movies to some degree is erroneous, IMO.