The Box Office

[inisideguy]

I can't see how Thor 4 doesnt go over 400. His whole brand is 3 times what it was before his last movie. Thats a lock. But good question about Black Panther. I think I would have to see a trailer to see what they got going.

[Albert1981]

I don't know why you keep continuing to feel bad for MOM. We have gone over this like 42 times. Its made 930 million dollars.

Because even though it was extremely financially successful, Strange 2 was not loved in a way that I hoped it would be. For me, I think the MoM had every chance to be as well-received as Winter Soldier, Guardians 1, Ragnorok and Iron Man 1. And all those films I believe made LESS money than the MoM. But they were more beloved than the MoM. I was really saddened by the some of harsh reactions to the Strange sequel. Some of the worst responses (in my opinion) to an MCU property (possibly only outdone by the the public's response to the Eternals). To me box office success does not ALWAYS equal quality. The Transformers films made a ton of dough, and they are not regarded particularly fondly. And some of MY own favorite movies did not "succeed" at the box office or when it came to awards (but eventually gained the respect of audiences many years after they were released). So yeah, I'm happy that Strange 2 cleaned up at movie theaters, but the vibe I got from it was less positive than it could have been.

Now when it comes to Love & Thunder, I feel that movie has a MUCH better chance to be more well-liked by folks. No multiversal shenanigans, no ties to Disney Plus shows, no anticipated cameos of Marvel characters from other studios and no horror. Just pure Taika and Hemsworth goofiness. Which I LOVE!

[inisideguy]

Because even though it was extremely financially successful, Strange 2 was not loved in a way that I hoped it would be. For me, I think the MoM had every chance to be as well-received as Winter Soldier, Guardians 1, Ragnorok and Iron Man 1. And all those films I believe made LESS money than the MoM. But they were more beloved than the MoM. I was really saddened by the some of harsh reactions to the Strange sequel. Some of the worst responses (in my opinion) to an MCU property (possibly only outdone by the the public's response to the Eternals). To me box office success does not ALWAYS equal quality. The Transformers films made a ton of dough, and they are not regarded particularly fondly. And some of MY own favorite movies did not "succeed" at the box office or when it came to awards (but eventually gained the respect of audiences many years after they were released). So yeah, I'm happy that Strange 2 cleaned up at movie theaters, but the vibe I got from it was less positive than it could have been.

Now when it comes to Love & Thunder, I feel that movie has a MUCH better chance to be more well-liked by folks. No multiversal shenanigans, no ties to Disney Plus shows, no anticipated cameos of Marvel characters from other studios and no horror. Just pure Taika and Hemsworth goofiness. Which I LOVE!

Well Albert thats not going to happen. I don't know why everything has to be well liked by everyone. I will tell you what I don't agree with it, but I have seen much more hate for Ragnarok on these boards than MOM. Not every movie is going to fit everyones idea of a great movie. 930 million dollars tells me it was pretty well liked.

[Albert1981]

Well Albert thats not going to happen. I don't know why everything has to be well liked by everyone. I will tell you what I don't agree with it, but I have seen much more hate for Ragnarok on these boards than MOM. Not every movie is going to fit everyones idea of a great movie. 930 million dollars tells me it was pretty well liked.

Maybe the hate for Ragnarok was more of a comic book fan thing? Because I think general audiences (including myself) thought it was hilarious. So much fun. And you could tell Hemsworth was truly HAPPY for the first time playing Thor in the MCU (a vibe I didn't get from the previous Thor films). Ruffalo and him seemed absolutely delighted and proud to be part of it. It's actually my personal favorite MCU movie. And I agree with you, I don't think anything will ever be universally liked. I just felt some of the criticisms of the MoM were WAY more harsh than I anticipated. The MCU's movies and shows GENERALLY don't get TOO many scathing reviews (from critics and audiences alike). They are enjoyed by the vast majority of audiences (an INCREDIBLE accomplishment I might add after like thirty movies and shows). Usually I don't give a **** about critical and audience reviews. You could clearly tell that because I'm one of the rare individuals who thinks AoU might be the best Avengers movie. That sentiment is NOT popular at all. But I think Marvel Studios and Disney should take honest and sincere criticism to heart. I know for a FACT that many people who were disappointed by the MoM are MASSIVE MCU fans. So they're not haters at all. My own feeling is that Marvel Studios is sort of focused too much on pleasing the MCU and comic book fandoms by expanding the MCU so quickly. Storylines have gotten a lot more complicated, the character rosters have grown really fast, the time travel/multiverse stuff can be confusing, and Disney is releasing more Marvel movies and shows than ever. There's bound to be continuity, consistency and even visuals problems with writers and VFX artists being rushed to meet deadlines. I liked the first three phases more because things felt more streamlined and accessible. Sure streaming viewership and box office numbers are great, but some of these big second-week drops kind of worry me. They never really happened that much before. To me that signifies that "casual" viewers might be losing a bit of interest in the MCU. My approach would be to slow the pace of releases to let viewers catch up on previous movies and shows. Three shows and three movies a year is a lot to me. Speaking for myself, I'm more interested if She-Hulk attempts to follow-up on what happened to the Leader than any Daredevil/Jessica Jones cameos. I wish Marvel Studios would finish stories that they started before they move on to new ones. And that's gonna be hard to do if they keep adding new characters, storylines and movies/shows at such a rapid pace. But that's just my opinion.

[inisideguy]

Maybe the hate for Ragnarok was more of a comic book fan thing? Because I think general audiences (including myself) thought it was hilarious. So much fun. And you could tell Hemsworth was truly HAPPY for the first time playing Thor in the MCU (a vibe I didn't get from the previous Thor films). Ruffalo and him seemed absolutely delighted and proud to be part of it. It's actually my personal favorite MCU movie. And I agree with you, I don't think anything will ever be universally liked. I just felt some of the criticisms of the MoM were WAY more harsh than I anticipated. The MCU's movies and shows GENERALLY don't get TOO many scathing reviews (from critics and audiences alike). They are enjoyed by the vast majority of audiences (an INCREDIBLE accomplishment I might add after like thirty movies and shows). Usually I don't give a **** about critical and audience reviews. You could clearly tell that because I'm one of the rare individuals who thinks AoU might be the best Avengers movie. That sentiment is NOT popular at all. But I think Marvel Studios and Disney should take honest and sincere criticism to heart. I know for a FACT that many people who were disappointed by the MoM are MASSIVE MCU fans. So they're not haters at all. My own feeling is that Marvel Studios is sort of focused too much on pleasing the MCU and comic book fandoms by expanding the MCU so quickly. Storylines have gotten a lot more complicated, the character rosters have grown really fast, the time travel/multiverse stuff can be confusing, and Disney is releasing more Marvel movies and shows than ever. There's bound to be continuity, consistency and even visuals problems with writers and VFX artists being rushed to meet deadlines. I liked the first three phases more because things felt more streamlined and accessible. Sure streaming viewership and box office numbers are great, but some of these big second-week drops kind of worry me. They never really happened that much before. To me that signifies that "casual" viewers might be losing a bit of interest in the MCU. My approach would be to slow the pace of releases to let viewers catch up on previous movies and shows. Three shows and three movies a year is a lot to me. Speaking for myself, I'm more interested if She-Hulk attempts to follow-up on what happened to the Leader than any Daredevil/Jessica Jones cameos. I wish Marvel Studios would finish stories that they started before they move on to new ones. And that's gonna be hard to do if they keep adding new characters, storylines and movies/shows at such a rapid pace. But that's just my opinion.

Actually it has happened before. People have to remember this was a big " spoiler movie" Professor x, Reed Richards etc. Many people wanted to not get effected by those things thats why it had the biggest opening of the year by far. Marvel has a built in fan base. In a movie like this that fan base comes out early. Period.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Well with China playing hard ball in theaters now and being a force , the US and Hollywood is building the India-Asia markets now. To be what China was. That they wanna build that market and feel its gonna replace China in time there.

[Wildling]

Top Gun Maverick continues to act like immovable box office object against unstoppable forces.

Riddle me this Dano Riddler (whose movie was already passed in North America by "Aviator Man 2", and Doc Strange 2 is next), what does Tom Cruise do when dinosaurs take the big screens from him? Answer: show it's still all about the pilot and make $50 million, with long maneuvers still left before the thing leaves the Top 10 chart this summer.

[kidfresh512]

I'll be very interested in the performance of Tom Cruise Mission Impossible installment after this best of career outing he's having with Top Gun. Even if it isn't as well received will it see a significant initial boost based just off of this "resurgence" for lack of a better word of interest? Or is it more localized to Maverick itself and you get more normal Tom Cruise blockbuster type box office performance.

[Albert1981]

Actually it has happened before. People have to remember this was a big " spoiler movie" Professor x, Reed Richards etc. Many people wanted to not get effected by those things thats why it had the biggest opening of the year by far. Marvel has a built in fan base. In a movie like this that fan base comes out early. Period.

I totally agree with you. The MCU has an ENORMOUS built-in fan base (which Disney has done a GREAT job of cultivating), and they came out to watch this movie EARLY, but not as OFTEN as previous MCU entries. I wish they did away with the cameos. Too much hype. I also wish Marvel Studios would go back to simplifying their stories like they did between Iron Man and Far from Home. There's a LOT going on in these new films and shows. NWH was a successful "spoiler movie". And it did live up to the hype.

I think audiences were confused by the MoM if we're going by the "CinemaScore" grade for Strange 2. From what I understand, the latest Jurassic Park movie was almost universally critically panned, but apparently the audiences liked it according to its CinemaScore (which was higher than the MoM's). So I do believe it's entirely reasonable for Disney to look into why so many people were disappointed in Strange 2 despite its immense financial success. I think it would help if Marvel Studios stayed away from excessive violence, gore and horror. And there is no need to add more darker themes into the MCU. Family-friendly fare is Disney's bread-and-butter and they should stick to it. And enough with A-list actors/actresses appearing in post-credit scenes and Marvel cameos of characters that were in Marvel TV, Fox, and Sony properties. Phase Four has been LITTERED with that stuff and I feel it's distracting from the stories and characters who are ALREADY in the MCU itself.

[inisideguy]

I totally agree with you. The MCU has an ENORMOUS built-in fan base (which Disney has done a GREAT job of cultivating), and they came out to watch this movie EARLY, but not as OFTEN as previous MCU entries. I wish they did away with the cameos. Too much hype. I also wish Marvel Studios would go back to simplifying their stories like they did between Iron Man and Far from Home. There's a LOT going on in these new films and shows. NWH was a successful "spoiler movie". And it did live up to the hype.

I think audiences were confused by the MoM if we're going by the "CinemaScore" grade for Strange 2. From what I understand, the latest Jurassic Park movie was almost universally critically panned, but apparently the audiences liked it according to its CinemaScore (which was higher than the MoM's). So I do believe it's entirely reasonable for Disney to look into why so many people were disappointed in Strange 2 despite its immense financial success. I think it would help if Marvel Studios stayed away from excessive violence, gore and horror. And there is no need to add more darker themes into the MCU. Family-friendly fare is Disney's bread-and-butter and they should stick to it. And enough with A-list actors/actresses appearing in post-credit scenes and Marvel cameos of characters that were in Marvel TV, Fox, and Sony properties. Phase Four has been LITTERED with that stuff and I feel it's distracting from the stories and characters who are ALREADY in the MCU itself.

Albert it is a doctor strange movie and has made 930 million dollars without China and Russia. What do you want? Do you know how much the last Doctor strange movie made without China and Russia? 544 million. So this movie did 400 million more than the last one.

[Colossus1980]

So I do believe it's entirely reasonable for Disney to look into why so many people were disappointed in Strange 2 despite its immense financial success. I think it would help if Marvel Studios stayed away from excessive violence, gore and horror. And there is no need to add more darker themes into the MCU. Family-friendly fare is Disney's bread-and-butter and they should stick to it.

You can't expect the MCU to make all critical hits. As well expectations can be unfair at times. I personally thought the Eternals got savaged for no reason. However Dr. Strange 2 lost maybe tens of millions from their younger fanbase due to the level of violence, gore, and horror from this movie. I'm sure parents refused to take their younger children and it probably cost them revenue of parents who wouldn't go without their young kids. Just guessing. And maybe some of the audience hated the fact SW turned villainous.

[Albert1981]

Albert it is a doctor strange movie and has made 930 million dollars without China and Russia. What do you want? Do you know how much the last Doctor strange movie made without China and Russia? 544 million. So this movie did 400 million more than the last one.

I want it to be more loved. Box office numbers are great, but that's not the only metric I judge movies by. Shang-Chi probably LOST money in the theaters last year, but it was definitely received better by audiences than the MoM was. I'm not expecting Marvel Studios to hit home runs at every at-bat, but I think it was incredibly lazy for the creators of the MoM to have not even watched WandaVision before making the movie. I think that's almost criminal. And I attribute this to Disney RUSHING to release their movies and shows for NO REASON. They could have easily used the pandemic as an excuse to delay things for a few more months and improve Strange 2 in the meantime. I LOVE Disney. My first and favorite family trip was to Disney World thirty years ago. I have such fond memories of that vacation and I'm grateful that Disney gave me and my loved ones such a wonderful experience. But I have to admit I'm sometimes cynical about the company. They pat themselves on the back for making loads of money without China, but then barely compensate comic book writers and artists for creating the stories that their EXTREMELY lucrative products are based on with those proceeds. Am I not permitted to believe that's a shitty thing to do? I think the MCU's reliance on cameos and A-list actors/actresses appearing in post-credit scenes in Phase Four projects is problematic. I haven't seen anybody on these threads actually dispute that. So it's not like I'm hating. I'm just disappointed.

[inisideguy]

I want it to be more loved. Box office numbers are great, but that's not the only metric I judge movies by. Shang-Chi probably LOST money in the theaters last year, but it was definitely received better by audiences than the MoM was. I'm not expecting Marvel Studios to hit home runs at every at-bat, but I think it was incredibly lazy for the creators of the MoM to have not even watched WandaVision before making the movie. I think that's almost criminal. And I attribute this to Disney RUSHING to release their movies and shows for NO REASON. They could have easily used the pandemic as an excuse to delay things for a few more months and improve Strange 2 in the meantime. I LOVE Disney. My first and favorite family trip was to Disney World thirty years ago. I have such fond memories of that vacation and I'm grateful that Disney gave me and my loved ones such a wonderful experience. But I have to admit I'm sometimes cynical about the company. They pat themselves on the back for making loads of money without China, but then barely compensate comic book writers and artists for creating the stories that their EXTREMELY lucrative products are based on with those proceeds. Am I not permitted to believe that's a shitty thing to do? I think the MCU's reliance on cameos and A-list actors/actresses appearing in post-credit scenes in Phase Four projects is problematic. I haven't seen anybody on these threads actually dispute that. So it's not like I'm hating. I'm just disappointed.

Sorry don't see how Shang chi was received better than MOM. MOM made 500 million more dollars. Granted there was still covid stuff going on. But I don't see how one could argue Shang Chi was received better. Just because " some people" didn't like the horror aspects or the Wanda issue doesnt mean Shang Chi was received better.

[Albert1981]

You can't expect the MCU to make all critical hits. As well expectations can be unfair at times. I personally thought the Eternals got savaged for no reason. However Dr. Strange 2 lost maybe tens of millions from their younger fanbase due to the level of violence, gore, and horror from this movie. I'm sure parents refused to take their younger children and it probably cost them revenue of parents who wouldn't go without their young kids. Just guessing. And maybe some of the audience hated the fact SW turned villainous.

I don't expect every Marvel movie to make over a billion dollars at the box office. Or get over ninety percent on Rotten Tomatoes scores each time either. But I feel that they really rushed Strange 2 in order to get to further projects down the line. And though I appreciate the MCU expanding into new genres such as horror, I think it was a mistake to make the MoM into a slasher film. They probably lost tens of millions of dollars in revenue because of that. So I don't they should try to do more "adult" and "mature" movies and shows in the future.

I think the hate for the Eternals was kind of self-inflicted. I didn't really enjoy that film (I didn't really like Black Widow, Loki, Falcon & Winter Soldier, and Hawkeye either), but I feel the hostility for that film partly stemmed from the fact that Black Widow, Shang-Chi, and Venom 2 came out before it in a span of just a few months. I think Marvel put out too many products before releasing the Eternals. I didn't hate the Eternals and Black Widow, but I think their premises were flawed. Making a movie (Black Widow) for a character who died in a movie released more than two years ago and featuring a family she NEVER mentioned before was a mistake in my opinion. If the Black Widow was released right after Captain America 3 (which was when Natasha's movie took place) would have made sense. I just think the Eternals was too ambitious a film. It introduced TEN new characters practically nobody ever heard of AT THE SAME TIME. And these characters just "showed up" and supposedly didn't do anything during all of the previous crisises which took place in the MCU because of "reasons". So I think Black Widow and the Eternals were sort of doomed to "disappoint". That's why I'm leery of the MCU making any more prequels. Captain Marvel worked well as a prequel because that film did a good job of explaining Carol's absence in the previous Marvel/Disney movies made before 2018. Not easy to pull off.

[Albert1981]

Sorry don't see how Shang chi was received better than MOM. MOM made 500 million more dollars. Granted there was still covid stuff going on. But I don't see how one could argue Shang Chi was received better. Just because " some people" didn't like the horror aspects or the Wanda issue doesnt mean Shang Chi was received better.

I think critics and audiences enjoyed Shang-Chi more. I don't care about that kind of thing, but Disney clearly should. I know I really enjoyed Shang-Chi. It probably didn't make any money but a sequel was immediately green-lit by Disney. That's a success to me. It's not just about the money. And if you adjust movie ticket prices for inflation (which has been really bad this year), I'm not even sure that many more people watched Strange 2 than Strange 1! Ticket prices cost a fortune these days. Way more than they did in 2016. And it matters to me how Disney USES the money Marvel makes at the box office for them. Marvel Studios is now gonna be using Stan Lee's likeness for the next twenty years for more cameos in their future projects. I just wish they could have done more to help Stan during the final years of his life (which were apparently pretty miserable). Just my two cents.