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  1. #106
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    I watched it all the way through and there were good episodes in every season. But I hated it once they did the 25 year leap and even before that. Hercules ended with the reconciliation of Zeus and Hera. They were in love again and she even ended her feud with Hercules. Then, a week later, on Xena, Zeus murders Hera and is then killed by Hercules. Wow, way to totally undermine the Hercules finale. And that was also the last appearance of Hercules.

    They had also done a Herc story where he met Odin, who was a loving husband who cared about humanity. Then they had Odin appear on Xena and he's a womanizing jerk who cares nothing about people. Continuity? What's that?

    Many people would say exactly the opposite but I liked Xena best when it felt like it existed in the same world as the Hercules show, before it had a drastically different tone and started introducing things like "non-Greek Amazons" who were based on a wholly different mythology.

    On personal note, I consider the first season of Xena canon in my personal head canon but the rest of it seems like it's taking place in a different world setting from Hercules.
    I preferred Hercules over Xena- I felt like Kevin Sorbonne did that the producers sort of abandoned his show to focus on hers. But now, thanks to his political and religious views, Iím not remotely interested in his show anymore.

  2. #107
    Courage looks like this Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    I preferred Hercules over Xena- I felt like Kevin Sorbonne did that the producers sort of abandoned his show to focus on hers. But now, thanks to his political and religious views, Iím not remotely interested in his show anymore.
    Once Hercules ended, two of the writers wanted to make the 25 year leap for the story they wanted to tell. Robert Tapert, the exec, didn't like the idea because it would mean doing away with the whole supporting cast, but they convinced him. I do think they basically threw out any Hercules continuity at that point since the show was over.

    I find Sorbo's religious and political views repulsive and idiotic. I used to go to his Facebook page because he's the guy that played Hercules. But he's too ignorant for words and I don't just mean that he's a Christian or a Republican. He even posted an incredibly racist joke.

    But, strangely enough, if I watch a Hercules episode, he's just Hercules, the character. Then he's just mouthing the words of the writer, who is really Hercules.
    This is what courage looks like.

  3. #108
    Sailing the seas Chris Lang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightmare10880 View Post
    Sliders was one for me, I can't watch the final season and I've tried to re-watch the show many times and just end up stopping after the 2nd or 3rd seasons..
    I'm surprised I left Sliders off my previous post. I gave up on Sliders after the third season's new showrunner decided to dumb things down. No longer was it a show about alternate worlds -- what would have happened if things had gone differently for history, or culture, and/or the protagonists' lives. Instead, it degenerated into a 'monster of the week' show, with knockoffs of several movies. Arturo was killed off, and the recurring villain introduced that same episode was given an anticlimactic death in the Season 3 finale (which had a plot ripping off 'The Island of Dr. Moreau'). I didn't bother with Seasons 4 and 5, but from what I'm hearing, things didn't really get better. The show lost its focus and never really recovered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    I watched it all the way through and there were good episodes in every season. But I hated it once they did the 25 year leap and even before that. Hercules ended with the reconciliation of Zeus and Hera. They were in love again and she even ended her feud with Hercules. Then, a week later, on Xena, Zeus murders Hera and is then killed by Hercules. Wow, way to totally undermine the Hercules finale. And that was also the last appearance of Hercules.
    I can't recall if it was a week later or a month later. But either way, it annoyed me that they undermined the Hercules finale that way. And then they had to dumb down every Greek god other than Ares and Aphrodite just so Xena, Gabrielle, and the child could survive beyond the opening minutes of the next episode. And when Xena met 'the Baptist' and a light shone on her and gave her the power to treat the Greek gods as if they were a bunch of Star Trek redshirts, THAT was when it became clear they weren't even trying anymore.


    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    They had also done a Herc story where he met Odin, who was a loving husband who cared about humanity. Then they had Odin appear on Xena and he's a womanizing jerk who cares nothing about people. Continuity? What's that?

    Many people would say exactly the opposite but I liked Xena best when it felt like it existed in the same world as the Hercules show, before it had a drastically different tone and started introducing things like "non-Greek Amazons" who were based on a wholly different mythology.

    On personal note, I consider the first season of Xena canon in my personal head canon but the rest of it seems like it's taking place in a different world setting from Hercules.
    I think I know what you mean. In a later episode of Xena, Gabrielle and Aphrodite were infiltrating a convention, and they met the twins Castor and Pollux. But in an earlier season of Hercules, we had a Castor who was now a villain, having gone off the deep end after his brother's death. How many Castors and Polluxes are supposed to exist in the Herc/Xenaverse? (Maybe I ought to look up the writing credits for those episodes).

  4. #109
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    Once Hercules ended, two of the writers wanted to make the 25 year leap for the story they wanted to tell. Robert Tapert, the exec, didn't like the idea because it would mean doing away with the whole supporting cast, but they convinced him. I do think they basically threw out any Hercules continuity at that point since the show was over.

    I find Sorbo's religious and political views repulsive and idiotic. I used to go to his Facebook page because he's the guy that played Hercules. But he's too ignorant for words and I don't just mean that he's a Christian or a Republican. He even posted an incredibly racist joke.

    But, strangely enough, if I watch a Hercules episode, he's just Hercules, the character. Then he's just mouthing the words of the writer, who is really Hercules.
    I feel the same way about Mel Gibson. Personally, I can't stand his anti-Semitic ass. But I can still sit down and watch Lethal Weapon, or Bird on a Wire, or any of his other movies and still enjoy them.

    I've just come to accept that the people we looked up to as kids went batshit crazy as they got older, or were just very good at hiding the crazy when they were younger and now they just don't care as much.

  5. #110
    Incredible Member Castle's Avatar
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    I don't give up on my favourite tv shows when they go bad because i still want to see how it ends , that been said, I will be the first fan to admit when my favourite tv show started to suck even if I stayed still the end.

  6. #111
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    I don't give up on my favourite tv shows when they go bad because i still want to see how it ends , that been said, I will be the first fan to admit when my favourite tv show started to suck even if I stayed still the end.
    Me too. I watched Buffy to the end, but it really stopped for me after season 3. In season 4 there were four or five good episodes, but mostly I felt the show had jumped the shark. From then on watching Buffy became more of a chore than a joy (though things like the musical episode rewarded my continued viewing).

    Doctor Who for me really stopped after The Caves of Androzani. Again, there have been stories I liked (or even loved) after that point, but as a whole I gave up on the show in the Colin Baker era.

    X-Files - I think someone here said that the mythology episodes lost their shine around season 2, and I'd agree with that. I stopped expecting anything good from the 'big' stories after that, though individual episodes still delivered.

  7. #112
    Courage looks like this Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    Me too. I watched Buffy to the end, but it really stopped for me after season 3. In season 4 there were four or five good episodes, but mostly I felt the show had jumped the shark. From then on watching Buffy became more of a chore than a joy (though things like the musical episode rewarded my continued viewing).

    Doctor Who for me really stopped after The Caves of Androzani. Again, there have been stories I liked (or even loved) after that point, but as a whole I gave up on the show in the Colin Baker era.

    X-Files - I think someone here said that the mythology episodes lost their shine around season 2, and I'd agree with that. I stopped expecting anything good from the 'big' stories after that, though individual episodes still delivered.
    I've heard people like Joss Whedon claim shows lose fans because they don't like change or fans say it's because a show lost quality. I think it's usually more basic. Using Buffy as an example, a show just moves too far away from the premise that someone was interested in to begin with. For instance, Whedon has said that fans looked at the Buffy/ Angel relationship as some sort of ultimate love story when it was really just a first love. But that's nonsense because the story during the first three seasons presented it constantly as the former. I guess you could say the same about Smallville, that it started out giving a viewer the impression this was romantically about Clark and Lana, an impression someone who didn't know the mythology would get. Then, from that viewer's point of view (and anyone's really), it totally switched gears and became a different show.

    It's a Catch-22. I don't want to go back to the days of totally episodic television when nothing ever changed. But when the premise changes too much, a show loses viewership.
    This is what courage looks like.

  8. #113
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Supergirl after Season 3. I was already angry with how poorly written Superman was in the Season 2 finale, but S3 was just so disappointing for me. I stopped watching and only did watch when Jon Cryer first showed up.

    Game of Thrones final season.. I can't watch that show anymore.

  9. #114
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    I am watching Raised by Wolves on HBOMax. It started good, but has become somewhat of a mess. It is an example of a series that has twice the episodes it needed to tell it's story. Not sure if I will follow it to S2, if there is one.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  10. #115
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    Supergirl after Season 3. I was already angry with how poorly written Superman was in the Season 2 finale, but S3 was just so disappointing for me. I stopped watching and only did watch when Jon Cryer first showed up.

    Game of Thrones final season.. I can't watch that show anymore.
    For Supergirl, you picked a good time to leave. While there were parts of Season 4 I liked (Cryer), I felt the main anti-alien storyline was way too close to reality for a show I watched to escape reality, and the whole Red Daughter storyline... it wasn't that it wasn't very good, it was that I wanted MORE. It was like they were trying to do two Big Bads like Flash did last year, only they kept Agent Liberty around for the whole season, and Lex Luthor ended up being the second villain and completely overshadowing Red Daughter.

  11. #116
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    I've heard people like Joss Whedon claim shows lose fans because they don't like change or fans say it's because a show lost quality. I think it's usually more basic. Using Buffy as an example, a show just moves too far away from the premise that someone was interested in to begin with. For instance, Whedon has said that fans looked at the Buffy/ Angel relationship as some sort of ultimate love story when it was really just a first love. But that's nonsense because the story during the first three seasons presented it constantly as the former. I guess you could say the same about Smallville, that it started out giving a viewer the impression this was romantically about Clark and Lana, an impression someone who didn't know the mythology would get. Then, from that viewer's point of view (and anyone's really), it totally switched gears and became a different show.

    It's a Catch-22. I don't want to go back to the days of totally episodic television when nothing ever changed. But when the premise changes too much, a show loses viewership.
    I do think when a show moves too far away from its core concept it usually is when it is about done. That is the reason most shows based around families all start to run out of gas when the kids grow up. Sure they try to bring in new kids most of the time, but it never really works. It is the same when a show has big mystery at it core. Once the mystery is solved unless you have an even better hook already set up your show is pretty much done.

  12. #117
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    I preferred Hercules over Xena- I felt like Kevin Sorbo did that the producers sort of abandoned his show to focus on hers. But now, thanks to his political and religious views, Iím not remotely interested in his show anymore.
    Considering that Lucy Lawless was sleeping with one of the producers, Rob Tapert, that might have played a role in why they were more interested in Xena than with Hercules. Though to his credit he did end up marrying her.
    I did stick with both shows to the end though and even watched Cleopatra 2525 and Jack of all Trades.

  13. #118
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I do think when a show moves too far away from its core concept it usually is when it is about done. That is the reason most shows based around families all start to run out of gas when the kids grow up. Sure they try to bring in new kids most of the time, but it never really works. It is the same when a show has big mystery at it core. Once the mystery is solved unless you have an even better hook already set up your show is pretty much done.
    That is one reason the The Simpsons and now also Bob's Burgers have lasted so long. The kids never have to grow up unless it is part of the plot for an episode.

    As to mysteries, when it was figured out who Red John was, it pretty much made The Mentalist a waste of time after that. Should have ended the series after the reveal. That should have been the series finale.

  14. #119
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    Considering that Lucy Lawless was sleeping with one of the producers, Rob Tapert, that might have played a role in why they were more interested in Xena than with Hercules. Though to his credit he did end up marrying her.
    I did stick with both shows to the end though and even watched Cleopatra 2525 and Jack of all Trades.
    Jack of All Trades was awesome - peak Bruce Campbell in a role he was perfect for.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  15. #120
    Courage looks like this Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    Considering that Lucy Lawless was sleeping with one of the producers, Rob Tapert, that might have played a role in why they were more interested in Xena than with Hercules. Though to his credit he did end up marrying her.
    I did stick with both shows to the end though and even watched Cleopatra 2525 and Jack of all Trades.
    In fairness, they offered Sorbo a contract for two more seasons with time off for health issues and a new costume where he could wear a full shirt since, after the stroke, he really couldn't work out anymore. Tapert, who was the main guy for making decisions, really tried to keep it going. I think it was only after he left anyway that they focused entirely on Xena. In fact, that whole "god-killer" plot was intended for Hercules.
    This is what courage looks like.

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