X-Men + Fantastic Four #2 Preview

[Iron Maiden]

Well yeah let's just say the mutant population was literally on its last legs with no help from the superhero community.

HoX/PoX touches on it a bit but thanks to the likes of humans, Cassandra Nova, Wanda Maximoff, terrigen mist, and vaccinations specially to target the. X-genese. They're really wasn't much choice.

And that's where you have to think outside of the comic and realize......TPTB in the X-Men editorial probably don't want them to get a lot of help from the superhero community. They want the story to be about the X-Men. They have have big enough cast to juggle without throwing in the Avengers, The Champions, Thor or whoever else you want to name. Plus you have to sometimes consider they have to coordinate with the creative staff for those other titles to see if you can use the characters.

[Lucyinthesky]

Yes that always has been the problem for the X-office for many years it has worked as a world of it´s own with some interactions sometimes with the super hero community on other titles but imo even since the first Secret Wars story the X-men have been seen by other superhero´s as a kind of illegal millitia that isn´t truly trusted so it kind of makes sense that Krakoa isn´t being received with an open mind mentallity given most super heros don´t really know much about the x-men in a personal way imo. My guess is that Hickman is trying to change this by making the X-men take bold steps into being recognized outside the comfort zone of most world institutions and the superhero community and of course this will cause them to clash and fight on many things.

1.- Because after a worldwide persecution(X-men Dissasembled) on mutants a kind of refuge for them stopped being something ideological and became a neccesity.

2.- Because most of them also would like to live in a place where just being outside doing your things or be with your family isn´t a problem or makes you fear something will happen to you, this is the reality most mutants who are not x-men lived for many years, hence the feeling of euforia most of them are showing at the moment.

Are they being provokative?definitely are they wrong in taking steps to deal with a crisis that affects their ppl? I don´t think so, It´s neccesary for them to change their discourse into one more agressive? Not really, but I guess Hickman has a reason for writting them this way I remember he made Reed and the Iluminati take truly bold bordering on evil actions before revealing the kind of things they wanted to avoid, my guess is that something similar is happening with the X-men right now.

[JB]

Yes that always has been the problem for the X-office for many years it has worked as a world of it´s own with some interactions sometimes with the super hero community on other titles my guess is that Hickman is trying to change this by making the X-men take bold steps into being recognized outside the comfort zone of most world institutions.

1.- Because after a worldwide persecution(X-men Dissasembled) on mutants a kind of refuge for them stopped being something ideological and became a neccesity.

2.- Because most of them also would like to live in a place where just being outside doing your things or be with your family isn´t a problem or makes you fear something will happen to you, this is the reality most mutants who are not x-men lived for many years, hence the feeling of euforia most of them are showing at the moment.

Are they being provokative?definitely are they wrong in taking steps to deal with a crisis that affects their ppl? I don´t think so, It´s neccesary for them to change their discourse into one more agressive? Not really, but I guess Hickman has a reason for writting them this way I remember he made Reed and the Iluminati take truly bold bordering on evil actions before revealing the kind of things they wanted to avoid, my guess is that something similar is happening with the X-men right now.

Well said. I don't have a problem with the heroes not showing up. But it's often complained that the mutants need to be warmer, kinder, less superior, otherwise they're labeled as supremacists, villains, insane, evil. Everything that came before led them to this path that Lucyinthesky so eloquently laid out.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Stupid forums ate my whole post.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

But that's amnesty and why, like loke13 said, the U.S. court had to give him up.

The court didn't have to give Creed up. It chose to as a courtesy. It could have issued a challenge and kept Creed remanded on U.S. soil for years. Who actually won that contest? Not the country that got stuck with Sabertooth.

[Iron Maiden]

Yes that always has been the problem for the X-office for many years it has worked as a world of it´s own with some interactions sometimes with the super hero community on other titles but imo even since the first Secret Wars story the mutants have been seen by other superhero´s as a kind of illegal millitia that isn´t truly trusted so it kind of makes sense that Krakoa isn´t being received with an open mind mentallity given most super heros don´t really know much about the x-men in a personal way imo. My guess is that Hickman is trying to change this by making the X-men take bold steps into being recognized outside the comfort zone of most world institutions and the superhero community and of course this will cause them to clash and fight on many things.

1.- Because after a worldwide persecution(X-men Dissasembled) on mutants a kind of refuge for them stopped being something ideological and became a neccesity.

2.- Because most of them also would like to live in a place where just being outside doing your things or be with your family isn´t a problem or makes you fear something will happen to you, this is the reality most mutants who are not x-men lived for many years, hence the feeling of euforia most of them are showing at the moment.

Are they being provokative?definitely are they wrong in taking steps to deal with a crisis that affects their ppl? I don´t think so, It´s neccesary for them to change their discourse into one more agressive? Not really, but I guess Hickman has a reason for writting them this way I remember he made Reed and the Iluminati take truly bold bordering on evil actions before revealing the kind of things they wanted to avoid, my guess is that something similar is happening with the X-men right now.

Now that you mention the incursions, in some ways you could say that the The Illuminati set themselves up for failure with their hubris. They never let anyone else in on what they knew about the incursions and thought they could handle it themselves. It turned out to be a soul crushing experience for them. When an incursion happened over Latveria, they smugly refused to let Victor know what was going on. He put together his little task force with the Mad Thinker who was able to take a fragment of the incursion and trace it back. This lead him to the Molecule Man who was the key to it all. Reed and the remainder of the Illuminati only managed to save a few in their life rafts ....Doom, Doctor Strange (who broke away from the Illuminati) and the Molecule Man took on the Beyonders and saved thousands if not millions. Essentially they saved they entire multiverse because Reed would not have survived if Doom had failed too. His portion of the life raft survived and landed on Battleworld.

Maybe Hickman is setting up the Charles, Scott. Magneto and the rest of the elite of the X-Men for something like that

[Iron Maiden]

The court didn't have to give Creed up. It chose to as a courtesy. It could have issued a challenge and kept Creed remanded on U.S. soil for years. Who actually won that contest? Not the country that got stuck with Sabertooth.

Yeah, with the Raft's history of being a revolving door for escaping super-villains they were probably better off letting the X-Men take him away.

[Lucyinthesky]

Now that you mention the incursions, in some ways you could say that the The Illuminati set themselves up for failure with their hubris. They never let anyone else in on what they knew about the incursions and thought they could handle it themselves. It turned out to be a soul crushing experience for them. When an incursion happened over Latveria, they smugly refused to let Victor know what was going on. He put together his little task force with the Mad Thinker who was able to take a fragment of the incursion and trace it back. This lead him to the Molecule Man who was the key to it all. Reed and the remainder of the Illuminati only managed to save a few in their life rafts ....Doom, Doctor Strange (who broke away from the Illuminati) and the Molecule Man took on the Beyonders and saved thousands if not millions. Essentially they saved they entire multiverse because Reed would not have survived if Doom had failed too. His portion of the life raft survived and landed on Battleworld.

Yes after reading that dinner issue I was like, oh please, just punch them Victor XD I really could not stand them anymore so I kind of get where the people who don´t like the actual status quo come from even if disagree with the arguments some of them make.

Maybe Hickman is setting up the Charles, Scott. Magneto and the rest of the elite of the X-Men for something like that

That´s my guess but is a mixed feeling for me because if we are talking of the X-men failing and being worse than ever despite all their plans, that has been bassically their story for a decade(since HoM and Decimation) and Hickman promised to take the X-men out of that vicious circle so I guess we will see a kind of Rise and Fall story for Krakoa that will then stabilize into the new Status quo for the X-men and mutants, because unlike the iluminati the X-men are doing Krakoa this way not just for pure hubris but because there´s an actual reason why they feel this urgency to make things different and that is enough for them to, as Moira said, "break all the rules" even if they have to make deathly alliances. They are doing the opposite of the iluminati by trying to involve everyone who´s willing to understand what they want to actually do.

[Rosebunse]

Now that you mention the incursions, in some ways you could say that the The Illuminati set themselves up for failure with their hubris. They never let anyone else in on what they knew about the incursions and thought they could handle it themselves. It turned out to be a soul crushing experience for them. When an incursion happened over Latveria, they smugly refused to let Victor know what was going on. He put together his little task force with the Mad Thinker who was able to take a fragment of the incursion and trace it back. This lead him to the Molecule Man who was the key to it all. Reed and the remainder of the Illuminati only managed to save a few in their life rafts ....Doom, Doctor Strange (who broke away from the Illuminati) and the Molecule Man took on the Beyonders and saved thousands if not millions. Essentially they saved they entire multiverse because Reed would not have survived if Doom had failed too. His portion of the life raft survived and landed on Battleworld.

Maybe Hickman is setting up the Charles, Scott. Magneto and the rest of the elite of the X-Men for something like that

But are Charles, Moira, and Magneto Reed or Doom?

Because it seems like they are Reed in this scenario.

And even if this storyline is familiar, it doesn't mean ut ends with mutants still being totally hated and feared to the extent they have been.

Let's remember, Secret Wars ultimately had a happy, if rarher bittersweet, ending.

[Lapsus]

Humans are allowed with a mutant escort. Otherwise no one is welcome that isn't a mutant because mutants are currently being captured, experimented on, and killed. Lizard may look like a mutant but he's not one and may agree with the lot that wants mutants exterminated.

Well the lizard is inestable, there is no reason to bring him to Krakoa.

It would seriously stupid to see the lizard in an anti-mutant rally, but i can expect everything from Marvel at this point.

[Zelena]

It may seem unrealistic to them but we know that's how amnesty works. He ends up letting them take Creed so fast forward to the mini and Sue's questioning is the same, questioning what the mutants are doing but not understanding their goal is protect their kind, not to act out just for the sake of acting superior. I think the two books are purposely linked for this. I don't love the characterization happening but I believe Hickman, who is steering the X-ship right now, wants this narrative to play out between them and Sue is being used as that character that doesn't understand why the mutants are doing what they're doing.

Amnesty works for past crimes, not new ones…
And, anyway, it is done for armed political struggles, not about offences against ordinary criminal law.

[BroHomo]

I was legit listening to MPR yesterday at the gym. Not kidding at all. You just gave me life, sir.

Ill be expecting a Mother's And Father's Day card this year buster.
No Excuses!

Amnesty works for past crimes, not new ones…
And, anyway, it is done for armed political struggles, not about offences against ordinary criminal law.

It's not restricted to just political crimes, it's just the most common crime people seek amnesty for

[BroHomo]

Double post

[Zelena]

It's not restricted to just political crimes, it's just the most common crime people seek amnesty for

Hard to justify from a moral point of view…
Amnesties are interesting to have valuable people to work for the sake of a nation.
Had these criminals given their word that they will work for the nation of Krakoa or Xavier counts on their gratitude to behave?

[Rosebunse]

Hard to justify from a moral point of view…
Amnesties are interesting to have valuable people to work for the sake of a nation.
Had these criminals given their word that they will work for the nation of Krakoa or Xavier counts on their gratitude to behave?

Seems like the thing about Sabretooth was more a show of force and a hard lesson to any mutant who might think of doing something similar. It still abused the concept.