X-Men + Fantastic Four #2 Preview

[Skullkid]

And you lost my attention the second you started using the same "Avengers work for the government" rhetoric, that people constantly use here, that doesn't work in the least because it hasn't been true for long stretches of time.

[Chris0013]

Naw put Jean Grey on a team with Steve Rogers as a co leader.

If there was a long time X-Man..I would say make it Beast. And have the resurrection protocols bring him back to pre-furry days....with his fun loving, comedic attitude.

The Avengers are UN/US sanctioned(now they are Wakandan sanctioned) . It is literally their job to get involved basically they are official fire department. The X-men are equivalent of "volunteer firefighters" they can step up to help out but it is not their official job put out fires. Nobody gets mad at volunteer firefighter on their day off for not running to stop a fire. Aliens come to attack earth nobody is expecting the X-men to run out when Avengers are around. The Avengers can't go nah that is not our job but X-men and FF can do it.

So yes the Avengers do look more callous when they don't get involved, It is literally their job to protect the world.

The problem with that argument is that Xavier actually told them not to get involved. There was an Illuminati meeting where Xavier said mutants were going to be treated this way and when Reed, Tony, et al... said they would back them Xavier said not to because they would become targets as well.

[Killerbee911]

And you lost my attention the second you started using the same "Avengers work for the government" rhetoric, that people constantly use here, that doesn't work in the least because it hasn't been true for long stretches of time.

I lost your attention with the truth? Ok fine I guess. These two things are true about the Avengers

A. Have worked directly for the government(see Mighty Avengers or Gyrich early years)
B. Most of recent Avengers groups have had the backing of US government or UN aka The government does not have direct control over them but they work in a official capacity for them and the government have a limited amount of control how they are runned and what missions they do.

The president comes to X-men or FF, The X-men can say go F*ck yourself, The FF can go no that mission is to danger for us. The president can to go the Avengers I am ordering you take this mission. If the Avengers "refuse" privileges get stripped away from them .

The problem with that argument is that Xavier actually told them not to get involved. There was an Illuminati meeting where Xavier said mutants were going to be treated this way and when Reed, Tony, et al... said they would back them Xavier said not to because they would become targets as well.

??? Nah I am just talking about X-men and FF status, They are Private vigilante organizations that are only allowed to existed because you can't be mad at people for helping out. Avengers get mission from the government and brief the president at times. They work along with government in a way most superhero groups don't. Yes sometimes in their history they have been completely independent. But most times they are independent contractor for the government or UN. They have an official agreement to fulfill certain duties. X-factor once upon time had that status and XSE period for the X-men had that type of status with UN.

Which bring us back to point the Avengers not helping out with something is entirely different from Runways,FF, X-men,New Warriors not helping out with something. Groups like Triumph division or Winter Guard they are in the same category as the Avengers.

[Chris0013]

I lost your attention with the truth? Ok fine I guess. These two things are true about the Avengers

A. Have worked directly for the government(see Mighty Avengers or Gyrich early years)
B. Most of recent Avengers groups have had the backing of US government or UN aka The government does not have direct control over them but they work in a official capacity for them and the government have a limited amount of control how they are runned and what missions they do.

The president comes to X-men or FF, The X-men can say go F*ck yourself, The FF can go no that mission is to danger for us. The president can to go the Avengers I am ordering you take this mission. If the Avengers "refuse" stuff get stripped away from them and they can't work in the area.




??? Nah I am just talking about X-men and FF status, They are Private vigilante organizations that are only allowed to existed because you can't be mad at people for helping out. Avengers get mission from the government and brief the president at times. They work along with government in a way most superhero groups don't. Yes sometimes in their history they have been completely independent. But most times they are independent contractor for the government or UN. They have an official agreement to fulfill certain duties. X-factor once upon time had that status and XSE period for the X-men had that type of status with UN.

Which bring us back to point the Avengers not helping out with something is entirely different from Runways,FF, X-men,New Warriors not helping out with something. Groups like Triumph division or Winter Guard they are in the same category as the Avengers.

I am talking in general about why they other heroes are not there to help.

[Skullkid]

I lost your attention with the truth?

What truth?
You just parrot the same thing everyone else here says, but anyone with more than a base knowledge of the Avengers knows they don't work for the Government, they will at most work with Government sometimes but at no point do they ever work for them with the government's agendas in mind, nor will the Avengers let the government tell what they can do or who they can help.

[BroHomo]

What truth?
You just parrot the same thing everyone else here says, but anyone with more than a base knowledge of the Avengers knows they don't work for the Government, they will at most work with Government sometimes but at no point do they ever work for them with the government's agendas in mind, nor will the Avengers let the government tell what they can do or who they can help.

That's exactly what happened in the Xmen/Avengers: BloodTies crossover

[Skullkid]

Last I checked in that story the Avengers didn't do what they were told and directly went against what the government wanted.

[Zelena]

Seems like the thing about Sabretooth was more a show of force and a hard lesson to any mutant who might think of doing something similar. It still abused the concept.

Although it is interesting to have the villains at telepathic and mind-controlling range, this concentration of renowned criminals on Krakoa is still very bad propaganda.

But then, Xavier and Magneto don't seem to bother…

[Rosebunse]

Although it is interesting to have the villains at telepathic and mind-controlling range, this concentration of renowned criminals on Krakoa is still very bad propaganda.

But then, Xavier and Magneto don't seem to bother…

Here's the thing, do they really just want mutants united?

Or do they just want more energy?

[Zelena]

Lol… could you imagine one of your politicians saying "I don't know what to say…".

Self-made man Magneto is showing his limits… Well, he never has to honed his diplomatic skills, a sleight of hand… and all problems solved.

[JB]

Although it is interesting to have the villains at telepathic and mind-controlling range, this concentration of renowned criminals on Krakoa is still very bad propaganda.

But then, Xavier and Magneto don't seem to bother…

On the other hand, the mutant villains are all in one place now, not tearing up the world. For now.

Lol… could you imagine one of your politicians saying "I don't know what to say…".

Self-made man Magneto is showing his limits… Well, he never has to honed his diplomatic skills, a sleight of hand… and all problems solved.

You have to take into account the context of his statement and why he said it. In the very next panel, the Wakandan diplomat shows that he agrees with what Erik is saying because he says, "I think we shouldn't act surprised. A nation will act in its own best interest. This is neither new behavior nor unexpected. We have seen it all before. And it would be... dishonest to pretend that our countries don't do the same. We find ways around it, we always do. Call it common ground, if you will".

Quite possibly the smartest man in the room.

Erik said what he said because he was asked what the long term plan for Krakoa is by the Indian diplomat. Erik said what they've told them is the long term plan, that there's no subterfuge. The Italian diplomat then questions him again about what if that changes? So Erik answered her "what if" with the above. He doesn't play in made up scenarios.

[Killerbee911]

What truth?
You just parrot the same thing everyone else here says, but anyone with more than a base knowledge of the Avengers knows they don't work for the Government, they will at most work with Government sometimes but at no point do they ever work for them with the government's agendas in mind, nor will the Avengers let the government tell what they can do or who they can help.

So you where saying

Henry Gyrich is the first person to be given the title of US Government Liaison to the Avengers by the National Security Agency later by the National Security Council. With his status, Gyrich is one of only two people (the other being the President of the United States) who could affect the Avengers in many difficult ways. During his tenure, Gyrich revokes the Avengers' priority status after taking issue. The Avengers have to accept Gyrich's "suggestions" or have their Quinjets and other sensitive equipment confiscated. He limits the Avengers' active membership to seven members, forces the Falcon to join unwillingly to fill an affirmative action quota Gyrich sets, and installs various security measures for the team.[volume & issue needed] Gyrich oversees the Avengers' activities for the next several months without incident, until he forbids the team to go on a mission to help Quicksilver.The next incident involves a security leak. Gyrich takes part in a Senate investigation involving the Avengers which claims the team are national security threats. When the investigation ends, the Senate committee gives the Avengers new guidelines to follow, and the committee designates Raymond Sikorski as his successor

The Mighty Avengers were formed in the wake of the Superhero Civil War as the New York unit of the 50-State Initiative. They were selected by Tony Stark, then Director of SHIELD, from members of his Pro-Registration Superhero Unit to form "the perfect team of Avengers." Stark's aim was that, though the Initiative was meant to cover each state, the Mighty Avengers would serve the world. Though he was an active team member, Stark's obligations both as Iron Man and as Director of SHIELD meant he was already strained as it was. For this reason, he appointed longtime Avenger and former super-agent Ms. Marvel to act as field commander

U.S.Avengers is an American comic book series published by Marvel Comics, featuring an traditionally patriotic-themed team of Avengers,Al Ewing described this group to be working with S.H.I.E.L.D. while not being a part of it
When Advanced Idea Mechanics merged with the U.S. military to form American Intelligence Mechanics, Sunspot, under the alias of Citizen V, formed the U.S.Avengers with Cannonball, Pod (under the alias of Enigma), Squirrel Girl, and Toni Ho's Iron Patriot form as well as Robert Maverick,

Secret Avengers The President appointed former Captain America Steve Rogers as America's new foremost law enforcement agent, as well as dissolving the Superhuman Registration Act at Rogers' request.[1] Captain Rogers then forms the Secret Avengers as a group of superheroes to operate under a veil of secrecy, in addition to the main Avengers team

Dark AvengersThe government assigned the team's redevelopment to Norman Osborn (the reformed supervillain now calling himself the Iron Patriot) whom the government had previously assigned to head the superhero team the Thunderbolts and who had become a public hero for his role in repelling the Skrull threat.

Avengers World Starting out with Steve Rogers and Bruce Banner strolling down corridors within the S.H.I.E.L.D. Helicarrier Iliad, they soon arrive in the presence of current head of S.H.I.E.L.D Director Maria Hill. Discussing matters involving the cooperation between the Avengers and S.H.I.E.L.D regarding the peacekeeping of national and global security. First order of business was the sudden emergence of an unusual string of natural disasters brewing all up and down the eastern seaboard, to which Hyperion, Thor, Captain Marvel were able to answer the call for help in Regina, Canada

[Zelena]

Here's the thing, do they really just want mutants united?

Or do they just want more energy?

United on what value? Only the pressure made by the humans can keep the mutants united… a common ennemy…

Left to their tools, the villains will do what they always do: their favourite hobby.

It seems that the villains have more personnality than the goods guys on Krakoa: Mystique, Shaw…

It certainly helps to speak with one voice, though, in the foreign policy and to have fewer rogue mutants.

[Veitha]

[Ferro]

he came with the receips, references AND key points, man a power point presentation would have been less destructive