X-Men + Fantastic Four #2 Preview

[Veitha]

FF are pretty much horrified by the s-men and they are right

I imagine how horrified they'd be if humans forcefully tried to vaccinate their kids, placed powers dampening collars on them or tried to register them.

[JB]

FF are pretty much horrified by the s-men and they are right

I'm horrified by the Smut-Men too. But only a little.

[loke13]

The X-Men (and numerous heroes) have dealt with this kind of people before and didn’t resort to that level of violence. In this instance, this wasn’t about the children. This was about revenge though mistakenly at the wrong target. Besides, do you honestly think that’s going to stop them from what they’re doing? If anything, it’s only gonna spur them further.

I'm not sure what the point of contention is here? I think we all agree that the attack on those soldiers by Iceman was brutal but given the fact that his best friend was murdered by the same group of people just hours after dealing with them while Bobby was busy hosting a drag show its understandable where that brutality is coming from especially since they're not sure that they can even Ressurect Kate.

Was it excessive violence? Yes. But I'm also not going to shed a few tears over a bunch of murderous racists losing a few limbs.

[Veitha]

I'm not sure what the point of contention is here? I think we all agree that the attack on those soldiers by Iceman was brutal but given the fact that his best friend was murdered by the same group of people just hours after dealing with them while Bobby was busy hosting a drag show its understandable where that brutality is coming from especially since they're not sure that they can even Ressurect Kate.

Was it excessive violence? Yes. But I'm also not going to shed a few tears over a bunch of murderous racists losing a few limbs.

Exactly. It was excessive and he could have stopped before ripping that guy's arm off. But I'm not going to feel sad the same way I don't feel sad when Wolverine goes around cutting fingers to random people in bar fights, y'know.

[JB]

I imagine how horrified they'd be if humans forcefully tried to vaccinate their kids, placed powers dampening collars on them or tried to register them.

That's the thing that gets me. I know FF and the X-Men are run out of separate offices and yadda yadda but here we have a vaccine going around and no one thought it would be interesting to see what the FF have to say about that?

[Rosebunse]

I'm not sure what the point of contention is here? I think we all agree that the attack on those soldiers by Iceman was brutal but given the fact that his best friend was murdered by the same group of people just hours after dealing with them while Bobby was busy hosting a drag show its understandable where that brutality is coming from especially since they're not sure that they can even Ressurect Kate.

Was it excessive violence? Yes. But I'm also not going to shed a few tears over a bunch of murderous racists losing a few limbs.

I certainly think we're meant to be disturbed by the violence and question if it was right, but yeah, it's also really hard to blame Bobby. He loved Kitty and he left her to go have fun. Granted, Kitty can normally take care of herself, but that doesn't mean much now.

[Rosebunse]

That's the thing that gets me. I know FF and the X-Men are run out of separate offices and yadda yadda but here we have a vaccine going around and no one thought it would be interesting to see what the FF have to say about that?

It just shows how isolated the X-offices are, especially at that point.

[Veitha]

That's the thing that gets me. I know FF and the X-Men are run out of separate offices and yadda yadda but here we have a vaccine going around and no one thought it would be interesting to see what the FF have to say about that?

Yeah and then Sue is like "But why did you move on that Island? Can't you just be here and get slaughtered so we can be friendos?". But Scott is labeled as condescending when he answers to that.

[spirit2011]

The X-Men (and numerous heroes) have dealt with this kind of people before and didn’t resort to that level of violence. In this instance, this wasn’t about the children. This was about revenge though mistakenly at the wrong target. Besides, do you honestly think that’s going to stop them from what they’re doing? If anything, it’s only gonna spur them further.

Wrong people, they were villains but didn't killed Kitty. Thisis the problem with extreme violence, you can target the wrong people out of anger.
Funny that it was aother mutant that killed kitty

I certainly think we're meant to be disturbed by the violence and question if it was right, but yeah, it's also really hard to blame Bobby. He loved Kitty and he left her to go have fun. Granted, Kitty can normally take care of herself, but that doesn't mean much now.

Duggan mostly write extreme violence without any consenquence, like his deadpool

[Zelena]

I certainly think we're meant to be disturbed by the violence and question if it was right, but yeah, it's also really hard to blame Bobby. He loved Kitty and he left her to go have fun. Granted, Kitty can normally take care of herself, but that doesn't mean much now.

Understanding and blame… not the same thing. Authors knew the difference in the past.

[Skullkid]

Or, if you read the comics and not just fast read them, he was helping mutants get back info to Krakoa about Orchis building a Mother Mold that would have erased mutants from existence. Using some of Stark and Richards patents to do that, too.

And yet at no point did he ever share that information.
Instead just tried to make the FF let the Sabretooth go, and let them think mutants were stealing their stuff and killing people for no reason.

[Rosebunse]

Understanding and blame… not the same thing. Authors knew the difference in the past.

I don't think Dugan wants you to completely side with Bobby, especially with the framing. Bobby is presented from the merc's POV as a merciless monster. We are only able to see him as Bobby because we know him.

[Kurolegacy]

And that mostly resulted in exploding school busses and genocide. I agree that Bobby was indeed extreme and it was bad to rip off that guys arm, but I think that using violence on these guys is not that villainous. Plus the X-Men have never been that much against violence, especially since Decimation.

It’s not so much about use of violence but rather the degree that they escalate it. I won’t disagree that violence against those who deserve it is okay and mostly what heroes tend to do especially when pushed. It’s just that in some of these instances like this where they’re going beyond what’s needed where it becomes concerning.

Unfortunately we saw during Rosecanny that the mutants no longer have the authorities on their side. In the past they would tie up the "crooks" and call the police or Avengers. Now mutants are killed on the streets and the killers get to play video games at home. So what options are available now?

Bobby helped save the children, fought off the mercenaries, thought it was done then is told his friend is dead, arrives on the scene as Bishop is about to get killed. This is why the mutants are acting extreme in some cases because *they* won't stop coming for the mutants. At some point you have to find a way to get them to stop.

That’s the problem there. Is escalating the violence really going to stop the likes of them? This is a universe that has dealt with the likes of the Brotherhood, the Mutant Liberation Front, etc in the past and they certainly weren’t against use of lethal violence. Those who are against mutants as is are just gonna see this as further mutant violence in which they’ll step up their game in response. It’s essentially a damned either way scenario but with increased violence only making the situation worse. As they’ll find justification for what they do in the face of it.

[Crimz]

It just shows how isolated the X-offices are, especially at that point.

It's weird that both are kind of isolated, even before the Fox shenanigans. The FF were often not involved or reacting to things that they should be.

[Veitha]

And yet at no point did he ever share that information.
Instead just tried to make the FF let the Sabretooth go, and let them think mutants were stealing their stuff and killing people for no reason.

Why should he tell them State secrets? Reed is not telling even his wife that he's experimenting on his son and Scott is required to spill Krakoan plans to the former Illuminati member?

There's a bit of a double standard since the FF can do whatever they want but the X-Men need to be friendly to them. Plus if you reread that convo, Scott actually defused the situation and handed them Sabretooth all the while being all smiles and mazel tovs.