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  1. #361
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    This has been an issue for me...where are the detractors? Not just 'I'm not sure about this place but will hang around anyway.." but "This is wrong on so many levels and I want no part of it." Mutants who suffered at the hands of the evil mutants like Apocalypse or some such and now put the good guys like the X-Men in the same category because they jumped in bed with them.
    Where are the mutants that are upset to leaves the homes they grew up in? Where are the ones that don't feel like turning their back on the rest of the world? Where are the ones that are fine with the Island itself, but don't want to get without a hundred miles of anything to do with Magneto or Apocalypse?

    Are there no X-men that think that living with humans instead of apart with them is an idea still worth fighting for?

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    I don't think the folks lusting for KraKoa to fall are gonna stop looking at the past crimes of a some peripheral characters as proof of the "secret evil" that the Xmen have become.Eventually whenever one of these villains sneeze the wrong way...itll be confirmation that KraKoa was doomed.
    Apocalypse made a law where he was able to ritually murder mutants for no reason other than to indoctrinate them to his beliefs, he made Otherworld into a fiefdom or Krakatoa and dissected Morgan le Faye, and Shaw murdered kitty Pride. Who Krakatoa has trouble resurrecting for some reason when you can bet Sinister has her DNA somewhere. We know Krakatoa's doomed from the future time line, they didn't win the war with the machines.

    Why wouldn't we be looking into past crimes of people in krakatoa community and the very head of its government? We don't know what happened in the transition months before Krakatoa was formed but you know who they are and what they can do.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Where are the mutants that are upset to leaves the homes they grew up in? Where are the ones that don't feel like turning their back on the rest of the world? Where are the ones that are fine with the Island itself, but don't want to get without a hundred miles of anything to do with Magneto or Apocalypse?

    Are there no X-men that think that living with humans instead of apart with them is an idea still worth fighting for?
    And don't forget the mutants who didn't have it so bad back in the "human" world. Anole's parents and neighbors were cool with him even though he was a mutant. And Justice really only faced problems from his abusive father...who I would say was not so much about being a mutant...but about the cycle of violence abused kids grow up to perpetuate. Even after Justice killed his father and went to jail he was respected by the guards (he trained with the Guardsmen), the warden (he got him to loosen up restrictions on prisoners on a case by case basis), and the prisoners. And when he got out eventually became an Avenger.

    So...where are the others...or we are supposed to believe that every mutant was being chased by racists with the intention of killing the "mutie scum"??

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    I mean America has been around for couple hundred years...I bet KraKoa can beat that

    Oh you mean the Sinister that didnt have mutant DNA...the one that is NOT on the Quiet Council? Yeah I know. thankfully 616 characters are not liable for what their clones do
    You don't need to go to that Sinister to not trust him. Are you suggesting that until now Sinister hasn't appeared in the series? Who have they been fighting all this time?

    Who knows what would happened to humanity if Apoc didnt destroy the bronze age....or if he was being truthful.
    Both aren't good answers. He has the abilities and reputation that he can use that as a punchline and you can't be certain he didn't. That's how he is. Of course, you don't have to rely solely on that act off-screen to judge him as a villain to be feared. We have years of stories with him doing on screen villainy to judge him on. Why do you trust him so easily? How do you know this isn't an act for another scheme of his? He started out being a long term master mind villain who plots from the shadows.

    Magneto was acting out defense.
    He was against the Nazis, who are dead now. He made relations between humans and mutants worse by being what the Friends Against Humanity say mutants are. It's not self defense when he's committing genocide, and killing his own people when they don't want to go along with being destroying or enslaving humanity because he has a god complex.

    Yeah theres some shady ass people on the Quiet Council, The Xmen are trying to build a Nation for all which means some hard decisions/compromises but I meeeeeean none of those Villains crimes come close to wiping out a whole race of people across the multiverse...and yet the Avengers have no problem parading the SW around. and their world keeps turning
    lol
    Apocalypse did in two alternate futures (Age of Apocalypse/Cable's future), has constantly plotted things like that though his career spanning millennia (like replacing all life on Earth with mutants), and he doesn't regret a single moment of it.

    Magneto unleashed an EMP which would have destabilised humanity on a global scale, in doing so killing millions of people in planes, surgeries and more and this only stopped because the X-men reversed it. What do you think humanity would have looked like had that been permanent? There's numerous other schemes like this he's made over the years, it's what he does.

    Scarlet Witch was being manipulated, under immense stress and has shown remorse for that act. The first thing she did after that was throw herself at the X-men's mercy. As well as being a super-hero, she's not enslaving dimensions for the Avengers like he is for Krakatoa. Avengers like Carol Danvers have given her grief over it, too. She has a past of being a reluctant plaything of an elder god, what's their excuse?
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 03-06-2020 at 08:32 PM.

  5. #365
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonincentex View Post
    That makes it sound like Krakoa is actually enslaved, forced to do the bidding of mutants without the vast majority having any clue as to what's going on.

    Like a slave, it's fed just enough energy to survive, but it is prevented from feeding like it would like to.

    Simply being a mutant of sorts doesn't go nearly far enough explaining why the Island would lock itself into such servitude for so little in return.
    As a predator, it prefers probably having a little than scarying the mutants and make them flee…

    But, if, for a reason or another, its needs increase, it could become less cautious.

  6. #366
    Spectacular Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Where are the mutants that are upset to leaves the homes they grew up in? Where are the ones that don't feel like turning their back on the rest of the world? Where are the ones that are fine with the Island itself, but don't want to get without a hundred miles of anything to do with Magneto or Apocalypse?

    Are there no X-men that think that living with humans instead of apart with them is an idea still worth fighting for?
    they are not in Krakoa duh some mutants still live in the human world for what ever reason

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    they are not in Krakoa duh some mutants still live in the human world for what ever reason
    Absolutely , this point has been made many times . We've seen Reeds chart of the mutant population and clearly many mutants have chosen not to move to Krakoa . We've also seen that there is a Morlock community in Arizona ( is it Arazona , I can't remember ?)

    We also know mutants are free to own property away from Krakoa .

    And the gates are clearly two way ! Anyone who tries Krakoa and decides its not for them can easily leave.
    There's no reason why people should not spend the week in Krakow and the weekend with their family at home.

    I've seen no evidence that Krakoa is a prison.


    Now I accept that there are hints that all is not as it seems .is there psychic manipulation , drugs , something Krakoa is doing ? But it is just hints , and quite possibly red herrings.


    I have to say I would love to see the development of political parties . I think Ankle would make a great party laeder.
    "What about the workers ?" , or in this case ,party goers !
    Last edited by Nigel909; 03-07-2020 at 05:36 AM.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Where are the mutants that are upset to leaves the homes they grew up in? Where are the ones that don't feel like turning their back on the rest of the world? Where are the ones that are fine with the Island itself, but don't want to get without a hundred miles of anything to do with Magneto or Apocalypse?

    Are there no X-men that think that living with humans instead of apart with them is an idea still worth fighting for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    they are not in Krakoa duh some mutants still live in the human world for what ever reason
    Then show them...show their stories...let's see that while some are living in fear that others are living pretty good lives because their neighbors are not pigeon-holed into the "all humans are genocidal racists" category.

  9. #369

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Then show them...show their stories...let's see that while some are living in fear that others are living pretty good lives because their neighbors are not pigeon-holed into the "all humans are genocidal racists" category.
    Well, if there's a good story to be told about that, then maybe it will be brought up in a book at some point.

    Have to keep in mind that the purpose here is to tell interesting stories (that can be sold) that features these characters. The purpose is not to make a biography about the mutantkind as a whole or even only the main characters themselves.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Then show them...show their stories...let's see that while some are living in fear that others are living pretty good lives because their neighbors are not pigeon-holed into the "all humans are genocidal racists" category.
    Well , I could refer you to Maurauders 7. Calistos dialogue that also gives a good account of the advantages of Krakoa. We've also seen Pete Wisdom in Excalibur.

    But let's face it , a comic book is primarily about its main characters , and in this case the focus is on Krakoa and nation building. I'm not sure a " kitchen sink drama" an "everyday story of mutant folk" would be all that interesting.
    When was the last time we had a story of a non mutant super being who just stayed at home , had a boring 9 to 5 job and had a few beers down the pub at the weekend ?

    Having said that of course , to my mind the x books have moved a little away from pure superheroics , to more of a science fiction type story. There , perhaps some of the life of the non superhero mutants might be explored , but then , of course people would complain. " Why are we seeing these nobodies ( I apologise for the term ) when I want to see ,Rockslide , Wind Dancer , Helion , Pixie , insert the name of any number of underused favourite characters.
    My favourite is Sugarman , I would love to see him on Krakoa.

    And , if I'm not mistaken , is not X Factor due to explore some of these issues ?
    Last edited by Nigel909; 03-07-2020 at 06:25 AM.

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by myownlittleusername View Post
    Well, if there's a good story to be told about that, then maybe it will be brought up in a book at some point.

    Have to keep in mind that the purpose here is to tell interesting stories (that can be sold) that features these characters. The purpose is not to make a biography about the mutantkind as a whole or even only the main characters themselves.
    Well said . Why is it that by the time I've typed a reply someone else has already given which better and more succinct asset than mine ?!

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by myownlittleusername View Post
    Well, if there's a good story to be told about that, then maybe it will be brought up in a book at some point.

    Have to keep in mind that the purpose here is to tell interesting stories (that can be sold) that features these characters. The purpose is not to make a biography about the mutantkind as a whole or even only the main characters themselves.
    The stories are there...the writers just have to be willing to write them. But it seems like all they want to do is push 'Krakoa is the what all mutants should aspire to...and if they don't why should they matter.'

    Let's face it..you, me, or anyone in this thread could come up with a story idea involving a mutant who is anti-Krakoa and make it interesting.

  13. #373
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Where are the mutants that are upset to leaves the homes they grew up in? Where are the ones that don't feel like turning their back on the rest of the world? Where are the ones that are fine with the Island itself, but don't want to get without a hundred miles of anything to do with Magneto or Apocalypse?

    Are there no X-men that think that living with humans instead of apart with them is an idea still worth fighting for?
    Why are you assuming anyone is forcing Mutants to live on Krakoa and leaving their families behind? This has been pretty well established as not being the case. Krakoa also allows humans on the island if they are accompanied by a mutant. But it is established that human governments are preventing mutants from going anywhere, depriving them of a choice.

    The X-Men still interact with the outside world, they just have a more safe haven to do it from than a mansion that never changes locations and could be firebombed by Sentinels at any moment

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Let's face it..you, me, or anyone in this thread could come up with a story idea involving a mutant who is anti-Krakoa and make it interesting.
    Sure, ok. Write the comic and let the fans judge how interesting it is

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    And don't forget the mutants who didn't have it so bad back in the "human" world. Anole's parents and neighbors were cool with him even though he was a mutant. And Justice really only faced problems from his abusive father...who I would say was not so much about being a mutant...but about the cycle of violence abused kids grow up to perpetuate. Even after Justice killed his father and went to jail he was respected by the guards (he trained with the Guardsmen), the warden (he got him to loosen up restrictions on prisoners on a case by case basis), and the prisoners. And when he got out eventually became an Avenger.

    So...where are the others...or we are supposed to believe that every mutant was being chased by racists with the intention of killing the "mutie scum"??
    My question too, but I'm assuming Krakoa as with everything is exercising vast amounts of leverage.A sick mutant ,human hospitals can't help you come to Krakoa we have healers who can make you whole...A dying mutant ,come to Krakoa and you will have a chance to live again. A mutant with a sick neighbour, we have drugs to make him better,we will give you the primary dose free of charge because as a mutant you vouched for them. The list goes on.If Krakoa can push buttons on the international stage ,you can bet they will tip any scale in the socio-economic arena

  15. #375
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    Av just realised something, seeing how Sinister is a villainous version of multiple man.It may be that Sinister in the QC is genuinely interested in helping Krakoa for now but if he is a clone sent for this purpose by Sinister prime somewhere out there .Then he could have directives to sabotage Krakoa built in that he does not know about.Anyway a little convoluted than simply assuming Nate is pure bred Judas but who knows maybe Essex prime is out there in the world working against Krakoa while he has a plant just like Xavier has three in the Vault...

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