Countdown for Krakoa's downfall

[lowfyr]

Yeah, I think what some people want is for it to be the mutants on the run from everyone. We get an Avengers team who are tasked to hunt and kill mutants! Tony Stark becomes the lead architect of the new Sentinels and the upgraded Nimrod, so that they can kill and exterminate all mutants on Earth! The remaining mutants are down to around 10 and they live in a basement of a bar and can't even go out without immediately being hunted down and brutally killed!

I get it, people hate that mutants are living on an island to escape the world wide genocide of mutant kind! So the only good way for the X-men is to live in a bunker somewhere in the US and every time they step outside the Sentinels, O.N.E., US Government, Project Wideawake, Weapon X, Avengers, Fantastic Four, and every other hero and villain on Earth is trying to kill them!

Uncanny X-Men under Rosenberg is the end of the story, if people didn't already get that! After all the years of prejudice, hate, and genocide the mutants are dying and very few remain! They are being picked off one by one and soon they will all be dead!

I get that people are purists and want to go back to the 1960's run when everyone was a generic archetype, the heroes were heroes, the villains were villains, and that's it. The X-Men were 5 kids striving to save people who hate and fear them! People didn't know who they were, they could pass as human in public, people didn't know where they lived! That story only works if there are very few mutants! But once you have thousands or millions of mutants, and they are being persecuted and hunted down for extermination world wide, then it becomes a bigger story!

Do those 5 kids hide in that mansion and ignore the plight of the millions who are being hunted and killed in the genocide?
Or do you leave the safety of your mansion and fight to save your own people from the genocide?

Marvel already did the story where they reduced the mutant population to 198, and then proceeded to show the brutal truth of human racism toward mutants because all the racists were just waiting for the moment when the mutants were so diminished so they could then kill the remainder with little or no trouble!

Unless you take the Marvel Universe back to the 1960's and make it so mutants are practically unknown by humans you can't actually tell stories where they protect and save humans from bad mutants!

Because who are the bad mutants?
Some of them are outright villains like Shaw, Selene, Emplate, Sinister, etc...
Some of them are freedom fighters like Magneto, Mystique, Destiny, Pyro, Avalanche, Exodus, Amelia Voight, Frenzy, etc...
Some are like Emma Frost who believe they can use the human business world as a way to pressure or force the government and politicians for mutant rights!

One person's terrorist is another person's hero! Magneto located detention facilities in the United States and freed the mutants who were being held illegally by the US Government!
Emma Frost used her corporate funds to build schools with a pro-mutant admission policy!

They only way you can go back to the X-Men living in a mansion is if no one knows where they live! But what about the rest of the mutants in the world? A million mutants aren't going to fit in a mansion! I guess they just get abandoned by the X-Men, because it's obviously way more important to defend the humans against those dirty disgusting mutants who don't have a right to exist! Who cares if a few million mutants are killed by Sentinels, as long as the X-men keep living in their mansion and defending and protecting the "good humans"!

Every time this conversation comes up I keep asking what people expect exactly? Do we just retcon everything back to the 1960's and pretend the entire history of the Marvel Earth didn't happen? Humans have been trying to exterminate or enslave mutant kind since the 1970's in Marvel Comics!

Days of Future Past came out in 1981 and predicted that the humans would exterminate all the mutants. The last few survivors of the mutant genocide tried to alter the past in the hopes that it would save everyone! Even then there was no guarantee that the horrible future had been prevented!

That is 1981 to 2020, you need to erase all those years to set the clock back on prejudice against mutants!

How many mutants are allowed to exist in this retcon marvel universe?

If you have too many, conflict between humans and mutants is inevitable!

So how many is too many? Is 198 too many? Is 100 too many? Is 50 too many? Is 25 too many? Is 10 too many?

Once you are less than 10 mutants total on the entire Earth that's pretty much telling the story of the Fantastic Four, because honestly with that few no one would even know what a mutant is!

Quoted for truth
Always a delight reading your comments. Thanks for that.

[Chris0013]

This is exactly what Hickman meant when he compared X-fans to trauma victims. They've lost the ability to believe that something nice isn't actually a trap.

I know this isn't directed at me specifically...but want to clarify off of this. I am not saying they should go back to hated, feared, hunted, killed, etc...But this segregationist, superiority, this is the best mutants ever had it was taking it too far (IMHO).

Look at other places and times in the MU. Canada seems not to have to deal with all this anti-mutant nonsense. In fact they seem to actively recruit mutants into Dept H to make heroes.

In San Francisco they had it pretty good until Osborn came in and manipulated things against them for his own purposes.

X-Factor came out as mutants after Fall of The Mutants and were given a parade by the city.

There are times that mutants are shown respect...or at the least not chased down with torches and pitchforks. And this is on the writers to show by getting away from all the doom and gloom and giving humans the broad brush treatment of 'they all fear, hate and want to kill mutants.'

We should see anti-mutant sentiment...throughout all the books, not just the X-Books...wax and wane. We should see people who have had bad experiences with mutants and their thoughts and people who have had good experiences with mutants and their thoughts.

[Grunty]

Here is something that i've been noticing after the full extend of Moira's 6th life had been revealed near the end of the DOX/POX dual series.
We have never seen Xavier's inner thought about it all. Only his external reaction. We likewise never learned what his and Magneto's endgame is now.
Meanwhile we learned what Moira thought of Xavier and Magneto. How they were people with big plans but also big egos that always got in their way. Oh and the strong belive that mutants always lose.
Though by extension normal humans always lose too since they died out before mutant humans did.

Finaly, what was the point of explaining the whole Phalanx -> Dominion thing if the main horror of the 6th life future was allready that normal humans died out, replaced by super powered designer humans and mutant humans had been put in zoos as sort of a failed evolution to be laughed at?

Perhaps the unsettling truth of Xavier's and Magneto's big plan is not to prevent the rise of the Bluemans and their attempt at becoming part of a hive mind, but to beat normal humans to the race there? To become Homo Novasomething first and become the Dominion in the stead of the hated normals?

Consider the following. Mutants as a whole are a terrible evolutionary design since they are all randomly powered. Everytime a human gains super powers via the X-gene the result is normaly one of six things. 1. They have awesome powers and can controll them. 2. They have awesome powers but can't controll them. 3. They have usefull to unimpressive powers and can controll them. 5. They have usefull to unimpressive powers but can't controll them. 5. They have useless or self harming powers but can controll them. 6. They have useless or self harming powers but can't controll them.

Judging by all the backround mutants and sad stories of "failed" mutants the ratio is something like this. Scenario 3, 4 and 5 are the most common to happen. Scenario 2 and 6 is uncommon. Scenario 1 is very rare.
For every Storm or Iceman you get 10 people who might have problems with their powers but can still hold a candle to them but also 10 who might rapidly age and turn into dust upon becomming mutants and 100 who are usefull but unimpressive or downright useless but functional.

When looking at it from the perspective of someone with big plans for civilizations, cultures and grand futures, 90% of their people are dead weight. Their people to be cared for perhaps but also unable to contribute to the future.

I notice that Krakoa has no real offering in jobs beyond that of the leading elite, special services (like healing or reviving) or secruity. The majority of the civilization seems to spend their time partying, leisuring and doing nothing productive or even artistic. Every major physical labour seems to be done by Krakoa itself as seen by the Krakoa bots making the drugs in Marauders. Every mental labour not done by Krakoa's organic computers is done by specialized few mutants. Every service not done by Krakoa is done by a small selection of favorits. Leading most of the Krakoa population as dead weight.

Which reminds me to the second law of Krakoa. Make more mutants. The main worth of these people and why Xavier and Magneto might be so keen on bringing more mutants back from the dead might simply be to extend the genetic potentialy to get more of the 1 out of 100s from them.

But of course that would just produce more dead weight mutants that need to be taken care of, which brings me to the Chimera's. They are designer mutants, created with a purpose in mind and therefor never going to be dead weight.
They are also not that different from Homo Novasomething and can infact been seen as a mutant attempt at creating them first.
What ever digital or organic technology. The path to homonovasomething is open for both base human and mutant humans.
Who's to say the designed human future isn't a dream for some mutants too? Especialy those with big plans and big egos.

So perhaps that's where the whole thing will fall apart in the end. What ever to oppose the Dominion or become part of it befor the normal humans can?

That is, if the whole thing doesn't turn out to be designed by the Dominion abusing Moira's life to ensure its multi dimensional existance or unlock the ability to controll the Phoenix, one of two things that can destroy them?
Or maybe Magneto just abused the life seed.

[Zelena]

Consider the following. Mutants as a whole are a terrible evolutionary design since they are all randomly powered. Everytime a human gains super powers via the X-gene the result is normaly one of six things. 1. They have awesome powers and can controll them. 2. They have awesome powers but can't controll them. 3. They have usefull to unimpressive powers and can controll them. 5. They have usefull to unimpressive powers but can't controll them. 5. They have useless or self harming powers but can controll them. 6. They have useless or self harming powers but can't controll them.

Judging by all the backround mutants and sad stories of "failed" mutants the ratio is something like this. Scenario 3, 4 and 5 are the most common to happen. Scenario 2 and 6 is uncommon. Scenario 1 is very rare.
For every Storm or Iceman you get 10 people who might have problems with their powers but can still hold a candle to them but also 10 who might rapidly age and turn into dust upon becomming mutants and 100 who are usefull but unimpressive or downright useless but functional.

When looking at it from the perspective of someone with big plans for civilizations, cultures and grand futures, 90% of their people are dead weight. Their people to be cared for perhaps but also unable to contribute to the future.

I notice that Krakoa has no real offering in jobs beyond that of the leading elite, special services (like healing or reviving) or secruity. The majority of the civilization seems to spend their time partying, leisuring and doing nothing productive or even artistic. Every major physical labour seems to be done by Krakoa itself as seen by the Krakoa bots making the drugs in Marauders. Every mental labour not done by Krakoa's organic computers is done by specialized few mutants. Every service not done by Krakoa is done by a small selection of favorits. Leading most of the Krakoa population as dead weight.

Which reminds me to the second law of Krakoa. Make more mutants. The main worth of these people and why Xavier and Magneto might be so keen on bringing more mutants back from the dead might simply be to extend the genetic potentialy to get more of the 1 out of 100s from them.

Being the protector of mutants is at core the identity of Krakoa. Having dead weights is apparently not a problem.
But I agree that the structure of the Krakoan society looks like very much like ancient Rome with elites, soldiers and 'plebeians' who are just there to breed… The slaves would be in this story Krakoa.

[Rosebunse]

But these people aren't even slaves. They're just there. Theu serve seemingly no function.

But I do have to give it to Grunty, especially just that Xavier and Magneto aren't being truthful with Moira and she certainly isn't being truthful with them.

And then you have Apocalypse, who is basically turning himself into a fucking king.

[Zelena]

But these people aren't even slaves. They're just there. Theu serve seemingly no function.

But I do have to give it to Grunty, especially just that Xavier and Magneto aren't being truthful with Moira and she certainly isn't being truthful with them.

And then you have Apocalypse, who is basically turning himself into a fucking king.

A king that needs loyal subjects. They give him a political weight. Curious that Xavier and Magneto have no problems with that.

[Ursalink]

The X-Men are getting more and more immoral, making me wish Krakoa will fall already, so they will recover the common sense.

Nightcrawler dares to think about a Mutant Religion, and considers afterlife is pointless because of the resurrection. Well, how about Kitty Pryde? She was supposed to be one of the best X-Men and yet, she can't be revived. Is her life so meaningless for them now? Krakoa must be destroyed, so maybe the X-Men will recover their sanity.

[houndsofluv]

every time I read this thread title I picture this


(in my deepest fantasies Krakoa uses black tom to recite it word for word)

[Rosebunse]

The X-Men are getting more and more immoral, making me wish Krakoa will fall already, so they will recover the common sense.

Nightcrawler dares to think about a Mutant Religion, and considers afterlife is pointless because of the resurrection. Well, how about Kitty Pryde? She was supposed to be one of the best X-Men and yet, she can't be revived. Is her life so meaningless for them now? Krakoa must be destroyed, so maybe the X-Men will recover their sanity.

I don't think Kurt really thinks that. He's just very conflicted. He clearly wasn't happy with the Crucible.

[Stormultt Divine]

The X-Men are getting more and more immoral, making me wish Krakoa will fall already, so they will recover the common sense.

Nightcrawler dares to think about a Mutant Religion, and considers afterlife is pointless because of the resurrection. Well, how about Kitty Pryde? She was supposed to be one of the best X-Men and yet, she can't be revived. Is her life so meaningless for them now? Krakoa must be destroyed, so maybe the X-Men will recover their sanity.

Immoral by whose standards?

Krakoa is a nation with its own customs and culture like any other nation. There are things Wakanda and Atlantis do that im sure may seem strange to outsiders as well.

[Ursalink]

Immoral by whose standards?

Krakoa is a nation with its own customs and culture like any other nation. There are things Wakanda and Atlantis do that im sure may seem strange to outsiders as well.

Playing God with life and treating it with no respect with the whole thing about resurrection in immoral at ALL levels.

Mutants are crossing too many lives this time, they think they have conquered death, but they are wrong. Not even immortal Gods can conquer death. Such thing is going to cost them DEARLY.

In fact, and idea comes to mind. In Marvel Universe, Death is actually an entity that has manifested many times to several characters, like Deadpool and Thanos. Do you remember how many times Ben Reilly was resurrected and killed by Miles Warren while he perfected the cloning's process? Ben Reilly ended up becoming insane and adopting the identity of the Jackal. Now, imagine if several mutants pass through the same several times and go nutso. This will be a disaster at all levels!! Even more if Death itself decides to intervine and stop Mutants for taking her name as nothing. Even worst, what if Thanos, who is in love of Death, decides to attack Krakoa and punish the Mutants? Not even all Mutants together will be enought to face Thanos and his army.

[BroHomo]

Playing God with life and treating it with no respect with the whole thing about resurrection in immoral at ALL levels.

lol Jeez project much?? Are you actually reading the books X-Men 7 shows just how serious they are taking life and death. You still haven't answered the question of what exactly they're doing that's so imoral.... It's not as if resurrection is unheard of or even rare in the 616. A lotta posters seem to be pushing their own dogmatic religious beliefs onto the X-Men. I guess unaware that most of the world ain't Christian and beiieve in some sort of reincarnation

The X-Men are getting more and more immoral, making me wish Krakoa will fall already, so they will recover the common sense.

Errr isn't hoping a country get attached just as if not more immoral than bringing back loved ones or people who died trying to stop people who wish to desTroy them?
Smdh

Mutants are crossing too many lives this time, they think they have conquered death, but they are wrong. Not even immortal Gods can conquer death. Such thing is going to cost them DEARLY.

Not sure you can call them immortal... isn't that one of the stipulations? Conquering death? Also there didn't seem to be a problem when Selene did it during Necrosha. She raised millions at a time. There's about 200,000 mutants on Krakoa...a lot less

Now, imagine if several mutants pass through the same several times and go nutso. This will be a disaster at all levels!! Even more if Death itself decides to intervine and stop Mutants for taking her name as nothing. Even worst, what if Thanos, who is in love of Death, decides to attack Krakoa and punish the Mutants? Not even all Mutants together will be enought to face Thanos and his army.

Errr why would Death care that Mutants are going in and out....if we go with your thinking that Death/afterlife is the same for everyone everywhere in the 616 that means there are TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS of beings living and dying through out the universe. A couple million is barely a drop in the bucket. Also if Thanos would come for Mutants why would the other heroes just sit back and watch a nation on Earth with mostly non soldiers get attacked and do nothing?

[CoCoBandz]

Playing God with life and treating it with no respect with the whole thing about resurrection in immoral at ALL levels.

Mutants are crossing too many lives this time, they think they have conquered death, but they are wrong. Not even immortal Gods can conquer death. Such thing is going to cost them DEARLY.

In fact, and idea comes to mind. In Marvel Universe, Death is actually an entity that has manifested many times to several characters, like Deadpool and Thanos. Do you remember how many times Ben Reilly was resurrected and killed by Miles Warren while he perfected the cloning's process? Ben Reilly ended up becoming insane and adopting the identity of the Jackal. Now, imagine if several mutants pass through the same several times and go nutso. This will be a disaster at all levels!! Even more if Death itself decides to intervine and stop Mutants for taking her name as nothing. Even worst, what if Thanos, who is in love of Death, decides to attack Krakoa and punish the Mutants? Not even all Mutants together will be enought to face Thanos and his army.

I mean you can just say you want Krakoa destroyed because you don't like it.

Don't have to jump through hoops explaining why. Lmao

[Zelena]

I mean you can just say you want Krakoa destroyed because you don't like it.

Don't have to jump through hoops explaining why. Lmao

So you understand why Ursalink doesn't like it…

[Ursalink]

lol Jeez project much?? Are you actually reading the books X-Men 7 shows just how serious they are taking life and death. You still haven't answered the question of what exactly they're doing that's so imoral.... It's not as if resurrection is unheard of or even rare in the 616. A lotta posters seem to be pushing their own dogmatic religious beliefs onto the X-Men. I guess unaware that most of the world ain't Christian and beiieve in some sort of reincarnation


Errr isn't hoping a country get attached just as if not more immoral than bringing back loved ones or people who died trying to stop people who wish to desTroy them?
Smdh

Not sure you can call them immortal... isn't that one of the stipulations? Conquering death? Also there didn't seem to be a problem when Selene did it during Necrosha. She raised millions at a time. There's about 200,000 mutants on Krakoa...a lot less
Errr why would Death care that Mutants are going in and out....if we go with your thinking that Death/afterlife is the same for everyone everywhere in the 616 that means there are TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS of beings living and dying through out the universe. A couple million is barely a drop in the bucket. Also if Thanos would come for Mutants why would the other heroes just sit back and watch a nation on Earth with mostly non soldiers get attacked and do nothing?

1º) Have they even consider those who died didn't want to be resurrected? I have seen many stories of people who want to bring back deceased beloved ones, but it's always because an selfish reason to heal their own pain. Besides, one thing for sure, NOBODY comes back from the other side the same.

2º) Every time the Mutants/X-Men have tried to make a nation of their, it ended in disaster. This tie won't be different. One way or another, Krakoa will fall. But like I said, the immoral part here is the fact they are resurrecting people without considering all facts. Sure, if you die, anyone can think you would want to be resurrected. But how about if you actually have peace on the afterlife and just don't want to be back? If you are reunited with a beloved one in the afterlife, you find happiness, and suddenly, they took that from you by bringing you back into the world of living?

3º) Selene raised those mutants as unliving monsters, which is worse than death. Also, even if Gods like Olympians can't be killed or die by "mortal ways", doesn't mean there's no single way to put an end to them.

4º) Death doesn't care for anyone, but she get quite pissed when she detect an "anomaly". Ben Reilly was a guy who was killed and resurrected 27 times in a rod, and that called the attention of Death because that's not how things must work in the universe. Now there are millions of mutants doing something similar, and if she was pissed by a "regular guy" like Ben Reilly, she will definitely be pissed with millions of mutants. Even more if all living things start doing the same about dying and resurrect continuously. And about Thanos, of course other heroes like the Avengers (especially Captain America) won't just sit and do nothing. However, the "powerfull men of the planet" (you know, like world leaders or millionaries) would do something to stop them from interfering until Thanos erradicate the "mutant scum" once and for all.