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  1. #1516
    Astonishing Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    It is a forgone conclusion that Krakoa ends and it will somehow be Moira's fault.

  2. #1517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    Except that she was told to wait days when the context implies, and she explicitly claims, that she doesn't have days to wait.

    The criticism on her timing is based around a number of assumptions not facts. The assumption that Wolverines time in hell could have been minutes instead of the hours or even day+ that would be more probable. We have nothing in story that would imply that time in hell doesn't count or passes slower. It's not something that has ever been shown to be a constant with hell in the MU. It's a made up point to justify criticizing Storm.

    I'm not claiming that it couldn't have been made clearer, obviously it could have been. But, in the absence of contradicting information and with Storm's explicit claims of imminent threat we have no reason to assume that she was lying, dishonest or stupidly damaging relations with Wakanda for no reason.
    I go by loads of lore, there have rarely if ever been issues stating that time in hell moves with the same speed as earth.

    You also make an assumption on imminent threat on a LOT of unknowns. 3 days is not the time Arrako has to get to Earth ,it is probably the days left due for the tournament to begin The tournament is in Otherworld, Majestrix Saturnyne makes it run on her clock not the earth's clock.
    Are you explicitly told that Storm not showing up with the sword ,means the entire tournament is lost by all Krakoans or just her spot is forfeit? If Sinister sent the Hellions to steal Arraki swords maybe the logic of forfeiting works both ways..

    Again the tournament itself we do not know if it is concurrent battles of 10 or sequential battles of 10 , that also could be a time factor so the tournament itself could take a few hours or several days in there. I'll admit if assuming Outworld's time is like hell time then it is inconsequential but because (unless Saturnyne wills it) Apoc has been apart from his family for millennia and Avalon is tied to earthly Britain then that would suggest outworld's time is equivalent to earth time.

    While in Krakoa though assuming all warriors need to stand in the memorial to go through it, there are still 5 warriors missing, while they arrive ,Storm had those hours to talk to Tchalla. It's funny because she was impatient for the sake of Krakoa because she heard he would take days and yet he wherever he was comes within hours...There are 2 possibilities for his haste 1. He got word that she was there and was happy and eager to see her and discuss whatever her concern was and lo and behold she is stealing the artefact 2. His haste is precisely because he got word she is stealing the artefact and wants to make a getaway. We cannot be certain of which is true, but the first factor is more likely as Ramonda and Shuri had time to send the word that Storm had come to see him, and almost no time to tell him she was stealing the artefact (a theft they had no foreknowledge of unless Shuri made an alarm before going to confront Storm) whatever distance BP had to cover, it is likely he would cover it in time in the first factor not the second.
    Last edited by Rev9; 10-15-2020 at 01:37 AM.

  3. #1518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Krakoa would be the first to fall but once they have fallen you would have an Okkara corrupted by extremely powerful mutants and an unstoppable army of demons with a portal directly to Earth.

    The rest of the world would soon fall. Apocalypse makes it clear in Creation: "It cost me my family and a lot of god-like mutants to stop that and I only managed to seal it, not beat them."

    And now those god-like mutants are allied with demons? Earth would be fucked.
    While it is sound logic to say Krakoa would be the first to fall

    1.How long would that take a day? A week? a month? We don't know individuals like Black Tom, Proteus even Tempus could give earth ample time .Tempus could trap Krakoa in a time capsule not different to Dr. Strange in the films. We just can't say that if the horsemen arrive Krakoa falls immediately

    2.I remember on a map two Krakoas being touted one in the Atlantic ,one in the Pacific again this could buy the earth a little time.

    3. This is an X-Men book so naturally any X men threat is an existential threat to the world , and so be it from a mutant perspective but even Krakoa hints unless there is a bigger threat than Amenth it didn't want to close the gate, a warring horde is no black hole or gamma ray burst aimed for earth and even then the earth had loads of other powerful factions who would fight the Arraki even without Krakoans if they saw them as a threat.. Atlanteans, the Neo(if they exist in this universe) Orchis, Xeno, Mikhail and others like him, F4 with Franklin Richards not to mention Wakanda, Avengers, Strange and Wanda and another powerful lot the Children of the Vault for their own reasons no doubt but to say the earth is toast because Krakoa has an enemy is not automatic capitulation.
    Last edited by Rev9; 10-14-2020 at 11:03 PM.

  4. #1519
    Astonishing Member CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    While it is sound logic to say Krakoa would be the first to fall

    1.How long would that take a day? A week? a month? We don't know individuals like Black Tom, Proteus even Tempus could give earth ample time .Tempus could trap Krakoa in a time capsule not different to Dr. Strange in the films. We just can't say that if the horsemen arrive Krakoa falls immediately

    2.I remember on a map two Krakoas being touted one in the Atlantic ,one in the Pacific again this could buy the earth a little time.

    3. This is an X-Men book so naturally any X men threat is an existential threat to the world , and so be it from a mutant perspective but even Krakoa hints unless there is a bigger threat than Amenth it didn't want to close the gate, a warring horde is no black hole or gamma ray burst aimed for earth and even then the earth had loads of other powerful factions who would fight the Arraki even without Krakoans if they saw them as a threat.. Atlanteans, the Neo(if they exist in this universe) Orchis, Xeno, Mikhail and others like him, F4 with Franklin Richards not to mention Wakanda, Avengers, Strange and Wanda and another powerful lot the Children of the Vault for their own reasons no doubt but to say the earth is toast because Krakoa has an enemy is not automatic capitulation.
    Judging by their prespective encounters with the plant people if Krakoa falls then what chance do the rest of Earths heroes really fare? The Cotati gave them all they could handle and then some. Are they ready for another invasion with even more deadly enemies? I wouldn't be so sure.
    The Krakoans are EEEvil!

    THEY MUST BE STOPPED!

  5. #1520
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Ok, maybe the Earth would not be destroyed, it would only suffer a terrible war at the hands of a demonic invasion.

    Run by mutants so powerful they can leave Apocalypse half dead with just two hits.

    And probably being able to control Okkara and having instant access to much of the world with the portals.

  6. #1521
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I go by loads of lore, there have rarely if ever been issues stating that time in hell moves with the same speed as earth.
    I'm not disputing that such lore exists however unless its shown to be a factor there is no reason to assume that it is. As an example there is lore that thinking happy thoughts and being sprinkled with pixie dust makes people fly but that doesn't mean that if I see someone flying I'm going to assume that Tinker bell is just offscreen. Going further people have gone into plenty of different dimensions including hell in the MU and not had it distort time. So where in the X-Men comics in has it been stated in a comic that makes an issue about time that time wasn't a factor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    You also make an assumption on imminent threat on a LOT of unknowns. 3 days is not the time Arrako has to get to Earth ,it is probably the days left due for the tournament to begin The tournament is in Otherworld, Majestrix Saturnyne makes it run on her clock not the earth's clock.
    Are you explicitly told that Storm not showing up with the sword ,means the entire tournament is lost by all Krakoans or just her spot is forfeit? If Sinister sent the Hellions to steal Arraki swords maybe the logic of forfeiting works both ways..
    Incorrect I'm not making an assumption I'm accepting what the comic book writers have stated and shown. You are arguing that the characters are either incorrect or lying. Based on What? Where is the evidence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Again the tournament itself we do not know if it is concurrent battles of 10 or sequential battles of 10 , that also could be a time factor so the tournament itself could take a few hours or several days in there. I'll admit if assuming Outworld's time is like hell time then it is inconsequential but because (unless Saturnyne wills it) Apoc has been apart from his family for millennia and Avalon is tied to earthly Britain then that would suggest outworld's time is equivalent to earth time.
    Once again you are assuming facts not in evidence. Everything we have been shown indicates that time in Otherworld or hell exists in a 1:1:1 ration with Earth. I'm not stating that it has to, the ongoing children of the vault story indicates that there can be instances where time does not align but unless or until we are actually shown that to be a factors there is no reason to assume that it is. So unless there is actual on panel evidence that time works differently there is no reason to assume that it does. Also the format of the tourney is irrelevant as it hasn't even started yet. The participants have 3 days to gather the swords or else they forfeit. Unless you have evidence to the contrary we have no reason to doubt what the writers have stated on panel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    While in Krakoa though assuming all warriors need to stand in the memorial to go through it, there are still 5 warriors missing, while they arrive ,Storm had those hours to talk to Tchalla. It's funny because she was impatient for the sake of Krakoa because she heard he would take days and yet he wherever he was comes within hours...There are 2 possibilities for his haste 1. He got word that she was there and was happy and eager to see her and discuss whatever her concern was and lo and behold she is stealing the artefact 2. His haste is precisely because he got word she is stealing the artefact and wants to make a getaway. We cannot be certain of which is true, but the first factor is more likely as Ramonda and Shuri had time to send the word that Storm had come to see him, and almost no time to tell him she was stealing the artefact (a theft they had no foreknowledge of unless Shuri made an alarm before going to confront Storm) whatever distance BP had to cover, it is likely he would cover it in time in the first factor not the second.
    Two points, you assume, again without evidence, that there will be hours upon hours of the sword bearers just standing around waiting on the last to arrive. This is possible but not proven it is more in line with the story that the sword bearers are all concurrently acquiring their swords and coming together at generally the same time. My assumption of concurrent storylines is borne out in by the New Mutants and Cable comics that explicitly demonstrate that these are concurrent stories.
    Second, Storm has no way of knowing when BP would arrive and the information she was given indicated that it would be longer than she had. She made the best decision she could with the information she had. This is known in literary terms as dramatic irony, its usually used to ratchet up tension in literary works... you know like comic books that are driven by conflict.

  7. #1522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    I'm not disputing that such lore exists however unless its shown to be a factor there is no reason to assume that it is. As an example there is lore that thinking happy thoughts and being sprinkled with pixie dust makes people fly but that doesn't mean that if I see someone flying I'm going to assume that Tinker bell is just offscreen. Going further people have gone into plenty of different dimensions including hell in the MU and not had it distort time. So where in the X-Men comics in has it been stated in a comic that makes an issue about time that time wasn't a factor?



    Incorrect I'm not making an assumption I'm accepting what the comic book writers have stated and shown. You are arguing that the characters are either incorrect or lying. Based on What? Where is the evidence?



    Once again you are assuming facts not in evidence. Everything we have been shown indicates that time in Otherworld or hell exists in a 1:1:1 ration with Earth. I'm not stating that it has to, the ongoing children of the vault story indicates that there can be instances where time does not align but unless or until we are actually shown that to be a factors there is no reason to assume that it is. So unless there is actual on panel evidence that time works differently there is no reason to assume that it does. Also the format of the tourney is irrelevant as it hasn't even started yet. The participants have 3 days to gather the swords or else they forfeit. Unless you have evidence to the contrary we have no reason to doubt what the writers have stated on panel.



    Two points, you assume, again without evidence, that there will be hours upon hours of the sword bearers just standing around waiting on the last to arrive. This is possible but not proven it is more in line with the story that the sword bearers are all concurrently acquiring their swords and coming together at generally the same time. My assumption of concurrent storylines is borne out in by the New Mutants and Cable comics that explicitly demonstrate that these are concurrent stories.
    Second, Storm has no way of knowing when BP would arrive and the information she was given indicated that it would be longer than she had. She made the best decision she could with the information she had. This is known in literary terms as dramatic irony, its usually used to ratchet up tension in literary works... you know like comic books that are driven by conflict.
    Even if I accept your idea of hell being 1:1 time which is inconceivable because I'll give you an example in the Inferno children arc of New Mutants 15(came out in 2010) General Ulysses who had been to limbo told a subordinate 'You outranked me when I left ,but I've had twenty years of hard combat in the two years you've been fiddling your thumbs waiting for us to come home' So hell/limbo does work like I said it does ,there is precedent....

    More to your point as pertains to X of Swords in Creation-book one there are two clues one more pivotal than the other

    1st Saturnyne's pal the fish lady Ryl, goes to get a being or substance from a star to make the fortune telling cards and it says on panel they go to 'some forgotten place' 'some foresaken time'

    Ok that may not be a smoking gun because maybe their gates let them travel to places back in time or out of time

    The second and real evidence is when Saturnyne herself when planting a thought for Rachael who was looking into Banshee's mind says to Ryl "I was in some other realm.At some other time.In some poor fool's head."

    That is panel evidence that indeed while everything was happening in real time Krakoa's time is different than Outworld's.

    As for hours of time passing obviously Magik being the first in the circle contacted Scott and Cable as soon as she got there to give them a time frame but she gives us a third clue glean from it what you will.. She a purveyor of magic, crosser into hell/limbo is herself not categorical about the time when asked by Scott-why? Sure she could have said you have 3 days or 70 hours something specific.While not eliminating the 3 days, her answer more flexible and accomodating not only relating to Krakoa's time but also each individual's time i.e some may take minutes to get their swords, some hours and others days and in the context of Saturnyne in another realm their 3 days could be minutes ,or hours or more than 3 days in Outworld! That is the whole spectrum of possibilities when you are dealing with Opal! She underscores this point by saying 'minutes,hours,days...something like that' she is likely using nebulous description because she has experience in how time works in other realms.Which also means my Logan estimate in hell is likely because of Ilayana's lack of definitive timeframe. Anyway I will be generous and just presume they are all ready on the 3rd day even with Logan in Japan and Limbo likely happening in 26 hours and so he would be back on Krakoa even by the second day(as can Doug and Storm and Even Cable) but yeah giving leeway still assuming it's day 3 so while Storm and Logan were looking for their swords she had a day at least to train Doug, he joins her on the day Storm and Logan are ready, and Cable probably also joins her after like 2 days probably minutes to an hour after all four are ready. It depends who the other fighters are, where they are and where their swords are but given that they are probably all still getting their swords ,I don't see how you can't add some hours to those standing there.Sure they may come minutes apart but again ,just because Cable is shown coming through when Doug and Storm and Logan and Ilyana are ready is not dispositive of him coming 2 hours later especially after what Ilyana says...It could be minutes it could be hours and she knows that her timer is the sunrise or sunset but for Opal a month of 'other' time could have passed.Point is the urgency made by Storm is not borne out by the panel either.If she was the last to enter the circle,I'd be the first to put my hand up and admit that was in the nick of time but as it stands Storm was exaggerating to Wakanda- it is what it is.
    Last edited by Rev9; 10-15-2020 at 08:04 AM.

  8. #1523
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Ok, maybe the Earth would not be destroyed, it would only suffer a terrible war at the hands of a demonic invasion.

    Run by mutants so powerful they can leave Apocalypse half dead with just two hits.

    And probably being able to control Okkara and having instant access to much of the world with the portals.
    And these mutants not only have not been on Earth for thousands of years, but they have been in a constant state of war for thousands of years, all driven by the ideology of survival of the fittest. They'd make the Age of Apocalypse look tame in comparison.

  9. #1524
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Even if I accept your idea of hell being 1:1 time which is inconceivable because I'll give you an example in the Inferno children arc of New Mutants 15(came out in 2010) General Ulysses who had been to limbo told a subordinate 'You outranked me when I left ,but I've had twenty years of hard combat in the two years you've been fiddling your thumbs waiting for us to come home' So hell/limbo does work like I said it does ,there is precedent....
    Limbo and hell are different dimensions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    More to your point as pertains to X of Swords in Creation-book one there are two clues one more pivotal than the other

    1st Saturnyne's pal the fish lady Ryl, goes to get a being or substance from a star to make the fortune telling cards and it says on panel they go to 'some forgotten place' 'some foresaken time'

    Ok that may not be a smoking gun because maybe their gates let them travel to places back in time or out of time

    The second and real evidence is when Saturnyne herself when planting a thought for Rachael who was looking into Banshee's mind says "I was in some other realm.At some other time.In some poor fool's head."

    That is panel evidence that indeed while everything was happening in real time Krakoa's time is different than Outworld's.
    As for hours of time passing obviously Magik being the first in the circle contacted Scott and Cable as soon as she got there to give them a time frame of minutes,hours,days.Isnt it also incredibly strange that she a purveyor of magic, crosser into hell is herself not categorical? Sure she could be speaking about the 3 days they have that is an obvious interpretation, but she says it not only relating to Krakoa's time but also each individual's time i.e some may take minutes to get their swords, some hours and others days and in the context of Saturnyne in another realm their 3 days could be minutes ,or hours or more than 3 days! That is the whole spectrum of possibilities when you are dealing with Opal! She underscores this point by saying 'minutes,hours,days...something like that' She is likely using nebulous description because she has experience in how time works in other realms.Which also means my Logan estimate in hell is likely because of Ilayana's lack of definitive timeframe. Anyway so while Storm and Logan were looking for their swords she had a day at least to train Doug, he joins her on the day Storm and Logan are ready, and Cable probably also joins her after like 2 days probably minutes to an hour after all four are ready. It depends who the other fighters are, where they are and where their swords are but given that they are probably all still getting their swords ,I don't see how you can't add some hours to those standing there.Sure they may come minutes apart but again ,just because Cable is shown coming through when Doug and Storm and Logan and Ilyana are ready is not dispositive of him coming 2 hours later especially after what Ilyana says...It could be minutes it could be hours and she knows that her timer is the sunrise or sunset but for Opal a month of 'other' time could have passed.Point is the urgency made by Storm is not borne out by the panel either.If she was the last to enter the circle,I'd be the first to put my hand up and admit that was in the nick of time but as it stands Storm was exaggerating to Wakanda- it is what it is.
    So your argument is that although they say three days, it might not actually mean three days, it might actually mean some other number.

    Ok, I disagree but for arguments sake lets go with that. Can you prove that they have more than three days? If we accept that the danger, can you justify waiting because their perception of time might be different? Can Storm as she clearly believes in the danger? Is that a reasonable risk? Which option, if you believe in the danger as Storm does, is more reasonable?

  10. #1525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    Limbo and hell are different dimensions.



    So your argument is that although they say three days, it might not actually mean three days, it might actually mean some other number.

    Ok, I disagree but for arguments sake lets go with that. Can you prove that they have more than three days? If we accept that the danger, can you justify waiting because their perception of time might be different? Can Storm as she clearly believes in the danger? Is that a reasonable risk? Which option, if you believe in the danger as Storm does, is more reasonable?
    Limbo and hell are different dimensions,is that really your distinction, so demons in hell move at a different time than Belasco in limbo? Ok fine you don't want to believe their laws are both far different than earth cool

    I never said there is absolutely no time frame, There is but I don't like Storm being disingenuous like that, she was pressed for time but not to the degree she made it out to be to Wakanda is all I'm saying, she may have gotten back to Krakoa in 30 hours just a little after Logan ,and she technically has 42 hours left.It's ridiculous, simply ridiculous for all the fuss she made.

  11. #1526
    Storm Goddess Wind Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Limbo and hell are different dimensions,is that really your distinction, so demons in hell move at a different time than Belasco in limbo? Ok fine you don't want to believe their laws are both far different than earth cool

    I never said there is absolutely no time frame, There is but I don't like Storm being disingenuous like that, she was pressed for time but not to the degree she made it out to be to Wakanda is all I'm saying, she may have gotten back to Krakoa in 30 hours just a little after Logan ,and she technically has 42 hours left.It's ridiculous, simply ridiculous for all the fuss she made.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Limbo and hell are different dimensions,is that really your distinction, so demons in hell move at a different time than Belasco in limbo? Ok fine you don't want to believe their laws are both far different than earth cool

    I never said there is absolutely no time frame, There is but I don't like Storm being disingenuous like that, she was pressed for time but not to the degree she made it out to be to Wakanda is all I'm saying, she may have gotten back to Krakoa in 30 hours just a little after Logan ,and she technically has 42 hours left.It's ridiculous, simply ridiculous for all the fuss she made.
    Why does the reasonableness I f Storm’s sense of urgency need to revolve around hours vs days for the fate of the world? This is a weird standard to measure her judgment (or honesty lol). Even if it were 3 days or 3 hours remaining waiting until the 11th hour for someone’s permission (let alone from a people who Storm has help save multiple times) doesn’t make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Rider View Post
    Why does the reasonableness I f Storm’s sense of urgency need to revolve around hours vs days for the fate of the world? This is a weird standard to measure her judgment (or honesty lol). Even if it were 3 days or 3 hours remaining waiting until the 11th hour for someone’s permission (let alone from a people who Storm has help save multiple times) doesn’t make sense.
    Because in just hours she would have met Tchalla and he would give her the sword, but no she had to be the agent to get it done and then sit and twiddle her thumbs while others are getting their swords. It's just bad character exposition a Wakandan liaison to Krakoa, a council member at that.Just bad and I don't see why only a few see it, maybe when Krakoa and Wakanda spill each other's blood and Wakandans don't have the protocols to help them people will get the gravity of her folly but till then yeah if it bleeds it leads I guess
    Last edited by Rev9; 10-15-2020 at 10:10 AM.

  13. #1528
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Limbo and hell are different dimensions,is that really your distinction, so demons in hell move at a different time than Belasco in limbo? Ok fine you don't want to believe their laws are both far different than earth cool
    It's not my distinction, it's Marvel's. There are multiple different hellish dimensions and multiple different lords that sometimes compete, sometimes cooperate and all run differently. Hell Lords
    You are looking at two clearly different dimensions that operate according to different rules. Even the example you gave, Limbo, doesn't consistently operate under different time speeds. For example, and more recently, during the abominable Extraordinary X-Men run the whole JGS and its associated mutant population moved to limbo to shelter from the terrigin cloud and time moved at the same pace as in the main world

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I never said there is absolutely no time frame, There is but I don't like Storm being disingenuous like that, she was pressed for time but not to the degree she made it out to be to Wakanda is all I'm saying, she may have gotten back to Krakoa in 30 hours just a little after Logan ,and she technically has 42 hours left.It's ridiculous, simply ridiculous for all the fuss she made.
    Except that the idea that she has 30 or 42 hours is an assumption and only works if you somehow still think that everything in Wolverines trip took place in one day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Because in just hours she would have met Tchalla and he would give her the sword, but no she had to be the agent to get it done and then sit and twiddle her thumbs while others are getting their swords. It's just bad character exposition a Wakandan liaison to Krakoa, a council member at that.Just bad and I don't see why only a few see it, maybe when Krakoa and Wakanda spill each other's blood and Wakandans don't have the protocols to help them people will get the gravity of her folly but till then yeah if it bleeds it leads I guess
    Except she didn't know he would be back in hours, she was told days not hours. She flat out states that she doesn't have day's to wait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Because in just hours she would have met Tchalla and he would give her the sword, but no she had to be the agent to get it done and then sit and twiddle her thumbs while others are getting their swords. It's just bad character exposition a Wakandan liaison to Krakoa, a council member at that.Just bad and I don't see why only a few see it, maybe when Krakoa and Wakanda spill each other's blood and Wakandans don't have the protocols to help them people will get the gravity of her folly but till then yeah if it bleeds it leads I guess
    I don’t see it the way you’re presenting it due to the context of the story being ignored by your position. If she was told she had to wait days and she knows she can’t then that was the driving factor of her decision. She struggled with it because she knows that choice may carry consequences but it doesn’t make her wrong or a bad leader for the council (especially considering some council members would have done more than just knock out some guards/Shuri). Ultimately, Days or hours means either timeframe is urgent for the fate of the world/multiverse so I don’t think its a valid point to criticize Storm’s actions.

    Also, one could also argue that the Wakandan leadership shouldn’t have pushed back on someone they know quite well, and knows that Storm wouldn’t embellish the urgency of a situation (let aline for a sword) so making her wait (possibly for days) to get permission isn’t reasonable. An argument with respect to the trust she’s earned by being there for Wakanda (saving many lives at the risk of her own) or her being the Hadari Yao and part of their pantheon of gods could be made as to why they could have just supported her from the start...but where’s the fun in that?

    I like that the writer chose a path that creates more story material though. It creates engaging discussion that I have missed with the x-books. A war between Wakanda and Krakoa could be epic, though I doubt that would happen.
    Last edited by Wind Rider; 10-15-2020 at 12:14 PM.

  15. #1530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    It's not my distinction, it's Marvel's. There are multiple different hellish dimensions and multiple different lords that sometimes compete, sometimes cooperate and all run differently. Hell Lords
    You are looking at two clearly different dimensions that operate according to different rules. Even the example you gave, Limbo, doesn't consistently operate under different time speeds. For example, and more recently, during the abominable Extraordinary X-Men run the whole JGS and its associated mutant population moved to limbo to shelter from the terrigin cloud and time moved at the same pace as in the main world



    Except that the idea that she has 30 or 42 hours is an assumption and only works if you somehow still think that everything in Wolverines trip took place in one day.



    Except she didn't know he would be back in hours, she was told days not hours. She flat out states that she doesn't have day's to wait.
    As I said I go by the lore I know, what I have read tells me limbo and hell don't work by earth time.It is a spiritual realm there is absolutely no reason as to why demons that are immortal and exist out of our plane would be beholden to our time. Most writers know certain basic tenets of common spiritual principle.This is one of those.I am not saying you're wrong, because maybe you read an issue where hell was in step with earth time but it is not the norm so I am not making anything up by giving you an example that backs my theory. I do believe Logan's trip took like 26 hours with the hell time.

    As I said before , Tchalla is a king if he was due back in days but is back in hours ,he is the one who changed his programme and it is more likely that it was communicated to him that Storm was there to see him. Anything else doesn't fit really we can't just call everything up to coincidences especially at level of royalty. To presume he even when away from his palace is completely in the cold is just ridiculous.He either sorted his business in a time faster than he thought he would or he specifically hurried back to meet with her.

    As for her ,she can justify her actions all she wants , the timeline is the problem The mere fact that Storm knew going to Wakanda that she had 48 hours (assuming she went there on the second day which itself is unlikely with how hasteful she is through the issue) Though even giving her that opening if she went morning of day 2 after hearing Polaris' prophecy the day before and still stole the sword after being there 24 hours ( she did not have her promised breakfast so even 24 is generous she was probably in Wakanda 16 hours tops ) then it is just absurd knowing Tchalla came that very night ,more than a day before the tournament. She appears to come to Krakoa in the morning simply because of geographical distance Krakoa is from Africa ,different timezone means night and morning either side of Krakoan gate not a literal difference in hours passed ....in fact the Krakoan timezone skips create discrepancies writers don't notice ,she left Krakoa daylight hours presumably morning ,Krakoa is about 8-9 hours ahead of Wakanda in Africa so if she leaves Krakoa in the morning it should be night time in Wakanda not daytime , and if it is so then she spent 24 hours in Wakanda! However because it is shown as daytime both sides of the gate, she must have left Krakoa like at 4pm to have a morning meeting in Wakanda as well.In this case she spends just 16 hours or so there. She has no excuses really. Another interesting thing is with timezone discrepancies since Japan is in Pacific more or less within hours of Krakoa it is possible while Storm was in Wakanda just 16 hours , Wolverine could have been in Japan for 26 hours and they both make it minutes apart that morning

    I mean ultimately the writers wanted drama all be damned and they have us talking , but there could have been a better way to have this resolved.If they wanted drama , they'd have Ramonda tell her 'you know only men can weild the sword by tradition' and so you have her break the tradition because she is in need of the sword whether she has minutes or hours full well knowing she won't get it by asking no matter what.As she is a chosen warrior she would be justified to risk everything even the wrath of her peoole.There would be no problem there because whether Tchalla was back or not she would test tradition by doing what she was destined to do in the moment but now she's just a common thief of an artefact she would be given freely if she waited ,full well knowing she had the time
    Last edited by Rev9; 10-15-2020 at 11:45 PM.

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