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  1. #1366
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    It was more of an announcement/declaration than an introduction.

    He would have known who she was prior to the day of the actual test just as she knew she was accepted for Crucible but did not know the actual date set...as shown by her and her siblings' reactions in the opening scene of the issue.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  2. #1367
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    So what do they do if a de-powered mutant wants their powers back, but doesn't want to have to fight Apocalypse to the death? There have to be some de-powered mutants out there that miss the powers but don't really want to fight anyone and especially don't want to die.

    Do they just consider them not mutant enough to matter?

  3. #1368
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Who knows? That particular scenario hasn't arisen...yet.

    As it stands, Melodi was given the option to continue to live her life as normal on the island. And all mutants have the option of not living on the island if they so choose.

    I think it was inferred that depowered mutants have to die and be resurrected in order to regain their powers...and some were contemplating suicide as a possibly problematic option...hence The Crucible.

    So...
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 04-03-2020 at 09:28 PM.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  4. #1369
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Who knows? That particular scenario hasn't arisen...yet.
    Who can contemplate easily to die? A walk in the park?
    The depowered mutants that don't want to go through the Crucible would feel like shit: not courageous enough to fight and die.

    Certainly, Krakoa doesn't feel like a society that places the individual and his rights in the center because it creates outsiders.
    The depowered mutants could be happy in Krakoa, could contribute to the society but they considered as second-class citizens.

  5. #1370
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    Back that up with pages from the books.
    Apocalypse exploiting jingoism is such an obvious idea. It's brilliant. Fits right into his characterisation.

    Here he is laying everything out for Melody in what she has to do to get her powers back. All Melody's doing is following his lead, she's not in control here she had no say in what the Crucible is. Either she follows his ideals or she stays human.

    https://static2.srcdn.com/wordpress/...op&w=740&h=370

    As far as we can see, Apocalypse only oversees Crucible personally as the "obstacle". There's no evidence that the Council left him to his own devices. Apocalypse doesn't rule alone, neither does he try to overrule his peers or push for violent actions(as seen in every Council scene where we actually see him speak, save for when he was trying to stop Sinister's blabbing). Unless there was something on that boring ass Excalibur that I didn't read, because I hate that book.
    All they did was give him his responsibility for repowering mutants, that's supposed to be the function the Crucible does in Krakoa. They accepted his proposal. This isn't about him ruling, it's about the authority the Council freely gives him - and they did. He doesn't have to, he may not get everything that he wants but he's not getting authority with brute force in krakoa he's doing it with persuasion. That's a big reason why he was such a threatening villain, his intelligence and experience is a great advantage.

    He's an "obstacle" in the sense that he made himself one because they have to prove themselves "worthy" of his approval only then do they get what they want. He twists the world around so it looks like they'll be "surrendering" to the human world by refusing his challenge when in reality they're surrendering to his ideals by letting him murder them.

    In Excalibur he's like an ancient evil wizard conquering the universe, with his "team mates" as his pawns. To date he's gotten Betsy to fight Brian Braddock to the death and he put Rogue in a magic tomb by setting her up in a millennia old gambit. And he conquered Otherworld, so that's a domino of krakoa now with its own mad king Apocalypse put on the throne. Xavier is on board with all of this.

    It's astonishing how so many posters here accept Apocalypse at his word. You do know he was one of the worst enemies the X-men had before Krakoa, right?

  6. #1371
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    He's an "obstacle" in the sense that he made himself one because they have to prove themselves "worthy" of his approval only then do they get what they want. He twists the world around so it looks like they'll be "surrendering" to the human world by refusing his challenge when in reality they're surrendering to his ideals by letting him murder them. ?
    But it's not the case. Krakoa is not in danger if the Crucible is not implemented. They don't need Melody's powers like they need Franklin's powers.
    I wonder why so many people think it's so a good idea.

    Suicides? They wouldn't suicide if they weren't so ashamed to be mutants without powers. A fact that the Krakoan society is responsible.

  7. #1372
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Who can contemplate easily to die? A walk in the park?
    The depowered mutants that don't want to go through the Crucible would feel like shit: not courageous enough to fight and die.

    Certainly, Krakoa doesn't feel like a society that places the individual and his rights in the center because it creates outsiders.
    The depowered mutants could be happy in Krakoa, could contribute to the society but they considered as second-class citizens.
    1...I'm not discussing "ifs, ands or buts". We are not the writers of this particular story...so for us to sit here and speculate and cast aspersions on things that haven't been written on the page is pointless and serves absolutely no purpose towards enlightenment and understanding of what's being written.

    2...As we saw in the opening sequence of Crucible with the interaction between Melodi and her Guthrie siblings...you are wrong. She is clearly not being "considered as a second-class citizen".
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  8. #1373
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    2...As we saw in the opening sequence of Crucible with the interaction between Melodi and her Guthrie siblings...you are wrong. She is clearly not being "considered as a second-class citizen".
    By her family? It would be a bit harsh, wouldn't it?

  9. #1374
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    So what do they do if a de-powered mutant wants their powers back, but doesn't want to have to fight Apocalypse to the death? There have to be some de-powered mutants out there that miss the powers but don't really want to fight anyone and especially don't want to die.

    Do they just consider them not mutant enough to matter?
    It’s hinted at that Prodigy doesn’t take the path of the Crucible but still finds a way to repower himself. It’ll be explored in X-Factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    But it's not the case. Krakoa is not in danger if the Crucible is not implemented. They don't need Melody's powers like they need Franklin's powers.
    I wonder why so many people think it's so a good idea.
    Because Krakoa doesn’t determine the worth of a mutant based on the usefulness of their power.

    Suicides? They wouldn't suicide if they weren't so ashamed to be mutants without powers. A fact that the Krakoan society is responsible.
    Being stripped of their powers was very traumatic because it’s literally what makes them who they are. It’s their natural gift and they shouldn’t just get over it. And it’s not like they are contemplating suicide with the idea that they’ll never return because, of told that they would be reborn with their powers, they just see it as a necessary step to becoming who they were meant to be.

  10. #1375
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    By her family? It would be a bit harsh, wouldn't it?
    From what was shown in HoX, All mutants are being considerd "family". I would think that that extends to the de-powered mutants who are living on island.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  11. #1376
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Who can contemplate easily to die? A walk in the park?
    The depowered mutants that don't want to go through the Crucible would feel like shit: not courageous enough to fight and die.

    Certainly, Krakoa doesn't feel like a society that places the individual and his rights in the center because it creates outsiders.
    The depowered mutants could be happy in Krakoa, could contribute to the society but they considered as second-class citizens.
    krakoa places a lot of value on powers being the manifestation of their mutanthood. That is why on Hellions they don't want to depower the problematic mutants

  12. #1377
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    krakoa places a lot of value on powers being the manifestation of their mutanthood. That is why on Hellions they don't want to depower the problematic mutants
    I wonder what they would make of a mutant like… Matthew Malloy? Let him keep his powers and destroy the universe?

    Sounds really like a religious thing.

  13. #1378
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I wonder what they would make of a mutant like… Matthew Malloy? Let him keep his powers and destroy the universe?

    Sounds really like a religious thing.
    I know Bendis tried to make it sound like a radical and misguided idea but: Train him to use them responsibly? They could use an uninhabited planet to practice.

  14. #1379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    But it's not the case. Krakoa is not in danger if the Crucible is not implemented. They don't need Melody's powers like they need Franklin's powers.
    I wonder why so many people think it's so a good idea.

    Suicides? They wouldn't suicide if they weren't so ashamed to be mutants without powers. A fact that the Krakoan society is responsible.
    I wouldn't say they are "ashamed" to be without powers. Think about Melody , she could FLY and then it was gone. I can easily imagine being willing to do almost anything to get that back. (Not suicide in my case ! I don't think I could believe enough in the resurrection .)

    Now I think about it I suppose that's an important part of the ceremony around the ressurections , proving that they were real , that Storm recognised them as her friends.
    Last edited by Nigel909; 04-04-2020 at 10:27 AM.

  15. #1380
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    I know Bendis tried to make it sound like a radical and misguided idea but: Train him to use them responsibly? They could use an uninhabited planet to practice.
    I know that the mutants have a habit to play the 'sorcerer's apprentice' but, seriously, you would take the risk?

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