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  1. #1381
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Doctor Strange trains a reality manipulator to control her powers once a week so she doesnīt accidentally causes a catastrophe so yes, it can be done. The problem is that it depends on the story, the writer either wants to write this character as: nothing can be done he/she must be killed or as he/she just needs more training. Bendis did the first with Wanda and Mathew Malloy while Thomson did the second in her Jessica Jones series. But if the argument is about, itīs fair to kill a person just because of what they could do, I would say no, neither itīs that heroic action, imo.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 04-04-2020 at 10:50 AM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  2. #1382
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Doctor Strange trains a reality manipulator to control her powers once a week so she doesnīt accidentally causes a catastrophe so yes, it can be done. The problem is that it depends on the story, the writer either wants to write this character as: nothing can be done he/she must be killed or as he/she just needs more training. Bendis did the first with Wanda and Mathew Malloy while Thomson did the second in her Jessica Jones series. But if the argument is about, itīs fair to kill a person just because of what they could do, I would say no, neither itīs that heroic action, imo.
    Killing anyone is bad, of course, but each time, it's a matter of facing a situation and taking a decision.
    When the fate of the universe is on the balance, it justifies, at least, to think about it, in my opinion. It's not the usual way the stories are told, usually, no matter what, you will stay true to yourself, put friendship and decency above all… We are used to heroes that escape their fate, miraculously, just at the end thanks to their courage and their qualities. But there, it goes beyond their life and in an ideal world, it's not up to them to take that decision. We, the bystanders, we matter too. We should have a say to it.

    But dilemmas are not that rare as a subject in comics. So it's not the easy way. If it's the case, it's not interesting.

    Edit: But it's not about killing a mutant, just depower him, it doesn't have to be that melodramatic…

  3. #1383
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I donīt remember why they didnīt depower him, I guess that had to be taken out of the question so they had to erase his existence. I can see why a writer would not like to just depower them, because it stops being a problem and itīs too easy an anti-climatic end and marvel is full of characters way too powerful, but then, if thatīs the case, maybe they should make it more hard of a problem, not just, this character is too powerful lest just kill them.

    I agree heroes are about protecting everyone, not just themselves and their loved ones, then again, that would include the person that has done no wrong but can be potentially dangerous to the entire universe or maybe even those that have done wrong too, I have seen some scenes of Batman taking care of some of his villains because most of them, when puch comes to shove, are people driven mad by some circunstances.Spider-man could protect the main population from the green globin and at the same time worry about his best friend father, of course this was before their relationship became too toxic, like itīs today. I like more this kind of heros than the ones who think everything they do and say is fair and right and just and judge others constantly without even a little reflection on their part, thatīs why I think that when heroes focus on the injustice itself and fight it in all itīs forms is when they truly show what they are made of.

    I agree thinks donīt need to be so melodramatic all the time, I would like to see some genuine fun X-men stories. I guess thatīs why I enjoyed Hellions so much but I would never said anyone of them are heros I want to see Jean, Scott, Logan, Ororo, Charles, Magneto, Kurt have some kind of fun too, from time to time, decimation also decimated their good times, it seems.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 04-04-2020 at 11:49 AM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  4. #1384
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    I agree with you, Lucy, wholeheartedly… I like my heroes the way you do.

    It's just a matter of stake.

  5. #1385
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    So what do they do if a de-powered mutant wants their powers back, but doesn't want to have to fight Apocalypse to the death? There have to be some de-powered mutants out there that miss the powers but don't really want to fight anyone and especially don't want to die.
    They. Have. To. Die. it's called the resurrction protocols for a reason. If the Xmen had a stable, reliable way to repower mutants you dont tink they would? there's about 16 million mutants ahead of this person anyway. Why would someone consider themselves above those mutants?
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Do they just consider them not mutant enough to matter?
    they can chill on KraKoa...or take their chances with the Scarlet Witch lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Who can contemplate easily to die? A walk in the park?
    there's been sooooo many issues showing depowered mutants are left traumatized without their powers.Seeing way to remove that trauma would be a blessing for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    The depowered mutants that don't want to go through the Crucible would feel like shit: not courageous enough to fight and die
    .I guess maybe who's to say as it has never been seen. but if they are too scared to gain their mutant powers by fighting, they must not really want them that bad. The fear of death should be lessened knowing youll be right back.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Certainly, Krakoa doesn't feel like a society that places the individual and his rights in the center because it creates outsiders.
    The depowered mutants could be happy in Krakoa, could contribute to the society but they considered as second-class citizens.
    Dude....what are you referring to? None of that has happened, or even hinted at.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Apocalypse exploiting jingoism is such an obvious idea. It's brilliant. Fits right into his characterisation.
    soooooo he hasnt. okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Here he is laying everything out for Melody in what she has to do to get her powers back. All Melody's doing is following his lead, she's not in control here she had no say in what the Crucible is. Either she follows his ideals or she stays human.
    https://static2.srcdn.com/wordpress/...op&w=740&h=370
    huh? did you miss the rest of the issue...its not like she went up there expecting an ice cream cone. previous to this shes been depressed AF, seeing her stand up to her older siblings and take a stance is awesome. and there was absolutly no hint at her being manipulated. Not sure where you are getting this from. Again what lead? Are you not getting their exchange was like reading from a script, its just a mutant pageantry. Very similar to when i joined a fraternity (cept much less hooking up)


    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    "obstacle" in the sense that he made himself one because they have to prove themselves "worthy" of his approval only then do they get what they want. He twists the world around so it looks like they'll be "surrendering" to the human world by refusing his challenge when in reality they're surrendering to his ideals by letting him murder them.
    Huh? Apocalypse has zero say as to who gets to do the crucible. He is literally there as tool. Apocalypse didnt write the Declaration of Independence for KraKoa lol. Melody is proclaiming her firm stance on wanting to go through it, and her loyalty to KraKoa and upholding its ideas. much like basic training for the military

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    In Excalibur he's like an ancient evil wizard conquering the universe, with his "team mates" as his pawns. To date he's gotten Betsy to fight Brian Braddock to the death and he put Rogue in a magic tomb by setting her up in a millennia old gambit. And he conquered Otherworld, so that's a domino of krakoa now with its own mad king Apocalypse put on the throne. Xavier is on board with all of this.
    lol Dude. what part of the universe does he have dominion over besides himself? How exactly did he make her fight Brian when The. Evil. Witch. who had stolen the throne transformed Brian into her evil puppet? Otherworld was about start a war with mutants led by an evil witch, who was killing innocent wiccans left and right. Yeah sounds like something Xavier would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    It's astonishing how so many posters here accept Apocalypse at his word. You do know he was one of the worst enemies the X-men had before Krakoa, right?
    What's truly astonishing is the place you're pulling these facts from. I meeen he was definitely a strong enemy, but nowhere near the danger humanity poses. but we've seen him submit to Krakoa laws and admits that this is what he wanted to see all along a strong mutant nation. kinda placates him. Besides...most and the worst of his evil either...hasnt happened yet. Or in an alternate timeline.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Edit: But it's not about killing a mutant, just depower him, it doesn't have to be that melodramatic…
    Again this is flat out ignoring all the issues showing the trauma depowering mutants can be
    Last edited by BroHomo; 04-04-2020 at 12:06 PM.
    GrindrStone(D)

  6. #1386
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena
    I agree with you, Lucy, wholeheartedly… I like my heroes the way you do.

    It's just a matter of stake.

    stake make stories more interesting always and they bring a whole new dimension of trouble, agreed, still everytime a hero wants to do whatīs best for the many they should remember the many are composed by individuals, so the stakes always have to be balanced by those two factors imo.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 04-04-2020 at 12:11 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  7. #1387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I wonder what they would make of a mutant like… Matthew Malloy? Let him keep his powers and destroy the universe?

    Sounds really like a religious thing.
    It would have been interesting if Reed knew about Matthew Malloy...and because he was outside time/space when Xavier and Tempus altered history he still remembers him and confronts Xavier about why he no longer exists...in front of several senior people on Krakoa. How would it be received that Xavier eliminated such a powerful mutant?

  8. #1388
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    It would have been interesting if Reed knew about Matthew Malloy...and because he was outside time/space when Xavier and Tempus altered history he still remembers him and confronts Xavier about why he no longer exists...in front of several senior people on Krakoa. How would it be received that Xavier eliminated such a powerful mutant?
    He was never born in the 616 timeline.

  9. #1389
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    I wonder if some kind person could clear something up for me .
    I've read several times in this and other threads that Hickman has clearly stated that this storyline ends with the fall of Krakoa and the defeat of mutantkind .
    Is this in fact true and if so , where can I find this statement ?

  10. #1390
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I donīt think that Hickman has said that on any of his interviews, the thought that this storyline ends with the fall of Krakoa is more like a theory some fans have based on the fate of Genosha and Utopia also because of the presence of the villains on the island and Moira saying at the end of Powers of X "mutants always lose",Krakoa is kind of hers and Xavier and Magnetoīs plan to stop this from happening.



    I also found this in one of his interviews : Hickman: House of X is the House of Xavier, mirroring back to [Brian Michael] Bendis' House of M," House of X is Krakoa, the house Xavier built and if this is kind of a mirror to House of M, seeing how it ended we can take that to mean there will be some secret or situation that will make it fall down or this could also mean this is Xavierīs house the way House of M was Magnetoīs house but in the end itīs mostly a theory.

    https://www.cbr.com/x-men-hickman-ho...-of-x-meaning/
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 04-04-2020 at 02:12 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  11. #1391
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel909 View Post
    I wonder if some kind person could clear something up for me .
    I've read several times in this and other threads that Hickman has clearly stated that this storyline ends with the fall of Krakoa and the defeat of mutantkind .
    Is this in fact true and if so , where can I find this statement ?
    Unless you're a telepath no where
    GrindrStone(D)

  12. #1392
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    If Wiccan and Franklin Richards are allowed to live and learn to master their powers, I don't know why Matthew Malloy doesn't.

  13. #1393
    Spectacular Member Redshipper's Avatar
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    This downfall can't come soon enough

  14. #1394
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redshipper View Post
    This downfall can't come soon enough
    What do you want in it's stead?
    GrindrStone(D)

  15. #1395
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    What do you want in it's stead?
    Age of Apocalypse 2.0. Apoccy rules the world! Only most people hate it.

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