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  1. #1246
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Technically, Krakoa can fall down without it being a divine punishment for unsavory practices.

    Poor Genoshans were exterminated without them agreeing with any Magneto's shenanigans…
    It wasn't Magnetos shenanigans that led to their deaths
    GrindrStone(D)

  2. #1247
    Amazing Member jonincentex's Avatar
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    I'm wondering what will happen to Krakoa when they realize virtually all the most powerful mutants have been children of basic, flat-scan humans, and as a result were the product of a random, spontaneous genetic mutation.

    While there have been a few mutants that have been the product of mutant/mutant parents, I can't recall any that were vastly more powerful than their parents.

    Mystique and Creed had a human child. That should make mutants very worried about what is the likely outcome of mutants reproducing with mutants.

    Magneto had human parents.

    X had human parents.

    Proteus had human parents.

    Jean Grey had human parents.

    Exodus had human parents.

    Selene had human parents.

    Quinton Quire had human parents.

    Gabriel Shepherd had human parents.

    Matthew Malloy had human parents.

    The truest indicator that mutants can't progress on their own is Legion.

    Legion's parents were X a mutant and a human. That implies human genes are needed to boost mutant genes to the next level.

    Even more telling is Franklin Richards parents are both human albeit cosmically empowered ones. This suggests that super-powered humans are the real key to mutant advancement.

    Not even when two very powerful mutants with one being an Omega could improve the breed. Cable's powers are identical to his mother's. Having mutants for both parents didn't create a new, better, more powerful mutant.

    It's no wonder that in all hypothetical futures, mutants eventually lose out to humans.

    They need humans to produce their Omega mutants. Without them they stall out while humans incorporate tech into their bodies and become vastly more powerful on an individual basis. I imagine sooner or later they will realize the fate of mutants is tied inextricably to flat-scans, because without them they cease to evolve and get stuck producing a lot of individuals with middling powers and almost never producing an omega mutant.

    If they ever do come to that conclusion will that be the day Homo Superior becomes truly evil and allow Mr. Sinister to kidnap humans he deems have potential to produce powerful mutant offspring and force them to reproduce or even worse harvest their reproductive organs and dispense with their flat-scan bodies in order to turn them into organic, mutant-birthing factories in the womb of Krakoa, or will they realize their need for humans means that Homo Superior is a crock and and invite humans selected for their potential to produce powerful mutants to live in paradise with them?
    Last edited by jonincentex; 03-28-2020 at 07:28 AM.

  3. #1248
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonincentex View Post
    They need humans to produce their Omega mutants. Without them they stall out while humans incorporate tech into their bodies and become vastly more powerful on an individual basis. I imagine sooner or later they will realize the fate of mutants is tied inextricably to flat-scans, because without them they cease to evolve and get stuck producing a lot of individuals with middling powers and almost never producing an omega mutant.
    What is the point of evolution, anyway? Producing powerful beings?
    I thought it was ensuring that the genetic pool is diverse enough for the species to survive to new conditions of living…

    What are the points that change conditions of living on Earth in this XXIst century? Climate change, pollution and energy scarcity.
    What are mutants powers useful for if they don't tackle these points?

    Anyway, it has been a while for the human race that we don't really evolve in a natural way but through technique and culture. For us, cooperation and creativity are the keys, more than the size of our guns.

  4. #1249
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    If neanderthals still existed but were dying out, saying "oh, well, they're unevolved and deserve to die" wouldn't make you look good.

  5. #1250
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonincentex View Post
    I'm wondering what will happen to Krakoa when they realize virtually all the most powerful mutants have been children of basic, flat-scan humans, and as a result were the product of a random, spontaneous genetic mutation.

    While there have been a few mutants that have been the product of mutant/mutant parents, I can't recall any that were vastly more powerful than their parents.

    Mystique and Creed had a human child. That should make mutants very worried about what is the likely outcome of mutants reproducing with mutants.

    Magneto had human parents.

    X had human parents.

    Proteus had human parents.

    Jean Grey had human parents.

    Exodus had human parents.

    Selene had human parents.

    Quinton Quire had human parents.

    Gabriel Shepherd had human parents.

    Matthew Malloy had human parents.

    The truest indicator that mutants can't progress on their own is Legion.

    Legion's parents were X a mutant and a human. That implies human genes are needed to boost mutant genes to the next level.

    Even more telling is Franklin Richards parents are both human albeit cosmically empowered ones. This suggests that super-powered humans are the real key to mutant advancement.

    Not even when two very powerful mutants with one being an Omega could improve the breed. Cable's powers are identical to his mother's. Having mutants for both parents didn't create a new, better, more powerful mutant.

    It's no wonder that in all hypothetical futures, mutants eventually lose out to humans.

    They need humans to produce their Omega mutants. Without them they stall out while humans incorporate tech into their bodies and become vastly more powerful on an individual basis. I imagine sooner or later they will realize the fate of mutants is tied inextricably to flat-scans, because without them they cease to evolve and get stuck producing a lot of individuals with middling powers and almost never producing an omega mutant.

    If they ever do come to that conclusion will that be the day Homo Superior becomes truly evil and allow Mr. Sinister to kidnap humans he deems have potential to produce powerful mutant offspring and force them to reproduce or even worse harvest their reproductive organs and dispense with their flat-scan bodies in order to turn them into organic, mutant-birthing factories in the womb of Krakoa, or will they realize their need for humans means that Homo Superior is a crock and and invite humans selected for their potential to produce powerful mutants to live in paradise with them?
    You're not taking into account the massive differences in pool size .Population of Krakoa , we are told ,is 200,000 and this represents the vast majority of the mutant population . Human population is 7.5 billion .
    Omega mutants are rare. It's no surprise that ,so far ,they have arisen from the human population .
    Also look at the tiny size of the children of mutants we have to look at . Clearly far far too small to make any statistical observations.

    If the mutant population were to increase radically ( to above a billion perhaps?) then some statistical analysis would be possible.

    Just checked ,approx 150,000,000 humans are born each year . How many in total births from mutants did you list ? Sorry just 're read your post ,you mentioned just 2 , Cable and Mystiques human child.

    I would suggest that of rather more concern would be those mutants who seem to be incapable of reproduction . Glob and Rockslide come to mind.
    Last edited by Nigel909; 03-28-2020 at 09:05 AM.

  6. #1251
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonincentex View Post
    I'm wondering what will happen to Krakoa when they realize virtually all the most powerful mutants have been children of basic, flat-scan humans, and as a result were the product of a random, spontaneous genetic mutation.

    While there have been a few mutants that have been the product of mutant/mutant parents, I can't recall any that were vastly more powerful than their parents.

    Mystique and Creed had a human child. That should make mutants very worried about what is the likely outcome of mutants reproducing with mutants.

    Magneto had human parents.

    X had human parents.

    Proteus had human parents.

    Jean Grey had human parents.

    Exodus had human parents.

    Selene had human parents.

    Quinton Quire had human parents.

    Gabriel Shepherd had human parents.

    Matthew Malloy had human parents.

    The truest indicator that mutants can't progress on their own is Legion.

    Legion's parents were X a mutant and a human. That implies human genes are needed to boost mutant genes to the next level.

    Even more telling is Franklin Richards parents are both human albeit cosmically empowered ones. This suggests that super-powered humans are the real key to mutant advancement.

    Not even when two very powerful mutants with one being an Omega could improve the breed. Cable's powers are identical to his mother's. Having mutants for both parents didn't create a new, better, more powerful mutant.

    It's no wonder that in all hypothetical futures, mutants eventually lose out to humans.

    They need humans to produce their Omega mutants. Without them they stall out while humans incorporate tech into their bodies and become vastly more powerful on an individual basis. I imagine sooner or later they will realize the fate of mutants is tied inextricably to flat-scans, because without them they cease to evolve and get stuck producing a lot of individuals with middling powers and almost never producing an omega mutant.

    If they ever do come to that conclusion will that be the day Homo Superior becomes truly evil and allow Mr. Sinister to kidnap humans he deems have potential to produce powerful mutant offspring and force them to reproduce or even worse harvest their reproductive organs and dispense with their flat-scan bodies in order to turn them into organic, mutant-birthing factories in the womb of Krakoa, or will they realize their need for humans means that Homo Superior is a crock and and invite humans selected for their potential to produce powerful mutants to live in paradise with them?
    I feel like Cyclops and Jean Grey’s kids discredit this entire theory. Proteus also had a mutant as a mother.

  7. #1252
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    It wasn't Magnetos shenanigans that led to their deaths
    It was Cassandra Nova and I am still curious why Charles didn´t explain this to Magneto, letting him believe the sentinels were led and made by regular human corporations.

    Evolution in the MU had at least some interference by third factors: the Kree who created the Inhmans, the Celestial who created the eternals, the mutants and the lemurians.

    The main difference is that the Inhumans and Eternals chose to leave regular humankind for fear of persecution or because they just wanted their own place for their people but this separation happened hundred of years ago in the marvel universe so there are no more inhumans or eternals being born from regular humanity and they are hidden. The mutants had a late development, their numbers to form a society only grew enough during this modern MU era, so their conflict now is the same Inhumans and Eternals had before, leave and form their own society far away or stay and have co-existence with humankind. At the moment Krakoa seems like a middle point, they have their own society but they are part of the UN and make commerce with the rest of the world but a crisis can come anyway.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 03-28-2020 at 12:26 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  8. #1253
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonincentex View Post
    I'm wondering what will happen to Krakoa when they realize virtually all the most powerful mutants have been children of basic, flat-scan humans, and as a result were the product of a random, spontaneous genetic mutation.

    While there have been a few mutants that have been the product of mutant/mutant parents, I can't recall any that were vastly more powerful than their parents.

    Mystique and Creed had a human child. That should make mutants very worried about what is the likely outcome of mutants reproducing with mutants.

    Magneto had human parents.

    X had human parents.

    Proteus had human parents.

    Jean Grey had human parents.

    Exodus had human parents.

    Selene had human parents.

    Quinton Quire had human parents.

    Gabriel Shepherd had human parents.

    Matthew Malloy had human parents.

    The truest indicator that mutants can't progress on their own is Legion.

    Legion's parents were X a mutant and a human. That implies human genes are needed to boost mutant genes to the next level.

    Even more telling is Franklin Richards parents are both human albeit cosmically empowered ones. This suggests that super-powered humans are the real key to mutant advancement.

    Not even when two very powerful mutants with one being an Omega could improve the breed. Cable's powers are identical to his mother's. Having mutants for both parents didn't create a new, better, more powerful mutant.

    It's no wonder that in all hypothetical futures, mutants eventually lose out to humans.

    They need humans to produce their Omega mutants. Without them they stall out while humans incorporate tech into their bodies and become vastly more powerful on an individual basis. I imagine sooner or later they will realize the fate of mutants is tied inextricably to flat-scans, because without them they cease to evolve and get stuck producing a lot of individuals with middling powers and almost never producing an omega mutant.

    If they ever do come to that conclusion will that be the day Homo Superior becomes truly evil and allow Mr. Sinister to kidnap humans he deems have potential to produce powerful mutant offspring and force them to reproduce or even worse harvest their reproductive organs and dispense with their flat-scan bodies in order to turn them into organic, mutant-birthing factories in the womb of Krakoa, or will they realize their need for humans means that Homo Superior is a crock and and invite humans selected for their potential to produce powerful mutants to live in paradise with them?
    Your maths don't work.

    The reason why so many Omegas have human parents is simple statistics. In fact, if you count Legion, Proteus and Nate Grey, it is very possible that the omegas of mutant parents are over-represented by a very wide margin.

    If 7 billion humans generate 15 omegas and 20 million mutants generate 3 omegas, the proportion of mutant parents of omegas is abnormally high.

  9. #1254
    Incredible Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    So why not the same concern about Mutants discriminating against Queer Mutants? Or black ones? Or female Mutants
    Why would you assume this doesn’t/wouldn’t concern me?
    “The Scarlet Witch is the only thing that will scare them. It’s the only thing they’ll respect.” - Hope Summers, Avengers vs X-Men #7

  10. #1255
    All-New Member rodski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    The X-Men are getting more and more immoral, making me wish Krakoa will fall already, so they will recover the common sense.

    Nightcrawler dares to think about a Mutant Religion, and considers afterlife is pointless because of the resurrection. Well, how about Kitty Pryde? She was supposed to be one of the best X-Men and yet, she can't be revived. Is her life so meaningless for them now? Krakoa must be destroyed, so maybe the X-Men will recover their sanity.
    I completely agree. They've become very cult-like. Many rituals on Krakoa have showed them to be more primal and brutal than they have ever been in the past. I've had a very uneasy feeling about this new direction since the beginning of the dawn of x. I'm hoping its just really good storytelling and i should be feeling unsure of the x-men's new demeanor and direction and not that i'm the outlier now and out of sync with what mutants now represent. While some characters still exhibit hopefulness and true heroism, the society as a whole is very fanatical, hedonistic and somewhat blood thirsty. I can't wait to see where this all leads!

  11. #1256
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodski View Post
    I completely agree. They've become very cult-like. Many rituals on Krakoa have showed them to be more primal and brutal than they have ever been in the past. I've had a very uneasy feeling about this new direction since the beginning of the dawn of x. I'm hoping its just really good storytelling and i should be feeling unsure of the x-men's new demeanor and direction and not that i'm the outlier now and out of sync with what mutants now represent. While some characters still exhibit hopefulness and true heroism, the society as a whole is very fanatical, hedonistic and somewhat blood thirsty. I can't wait to see where this all leads!
    Just because something isn’t western doesn’t mean it’s fanatical and bloodthirsty. They are establishing systems in their nation that are much more advanced than anything in first world countries. They develop free housing and food, believe in rehabilitation rather than punishment, celebrate their differences, and give the world life-saving medicines. This whole idea that they’re “barbaric” really doesn’t make sense in context to what we’ve seen of Dawn of X so far.

  12. #1257
    Fantastic Member Stormultt Divine's Avatar
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    Gotta say...the anti-Krakoa arguments still aren't making sense in here, guys.

  13. #1258
    All-New Member rodski's Avatar
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    Absolutely right!

  14. #1259
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Just because something isn’t western doesn’t mean it’s fanatical and bloodthirsty. They are establishing systems in their nation that are much more advanced than anything in first world countries. They develop free housing and food, believe in rehabilitation rather than punishment, celebrate their differences, and give the world life-saving medicines. This whole idea that they’re “barbaric” really doesn’t make sense in context to what we’ve seen of Dawn of X so far.
    Honestly, if I lived in a country where health care was not free, I wouldn't dare call Krakoa "barbarians".

  15. #1260
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodski View Post
    I completely agree. They've become very cult-like. Many rituals on Krakoa have showed them to be more primal and brutal than they have ever been in the past. I've had a very uneasy feeling about this new direction since the beginning of the dawn of x. I'm hoping its just really good storytelling and i should be feeling unsure of the x-men's new demeanor and direction and not that i'm the outlier now and out of sync with what mutants now represent. While some characters still exhibit hopefulness and true heroism, the society as a whole is very fanatical, hedonistic and somewhat blood thirsty. I can't wait to see where this all leads!
    because that's what mutants have been forced to become, this isnt something new ffs the greeting of the team is "welcome to the x-men, i hope you survive the experience".
    Mutant's are NOT for the faint of heart, it never was

    Mutants have a history of constant violence anf pain and an unique relantionship with death.
    It's not barbaric, its a high sci fi concept that aknowledges mutant history and culture and pushes it forward.
    Last edited by Ferro; 03-29-2020 at 02:38 PM.

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