Countdown for Krakoa's downfall

[Rosebunse]

If this is true Its sad that people who's theories include KraKoa is some conniving Human Death Island that deserves to burn, are A. Can't see they're wrong B. So warped by the Right=Might mentality they rather have their opinions reenforced no matter how many people enjoy the opposite

How is my having the theory that Krakoa is an evil thing ruining your own enjoyment of this story?

I don't think I'm harassing anyone, I hope I haven't been rude, I'm just sharing my theory. If that really damages your enjoyment of the comics and you keep coming to a forum about the X-Men, a place where we should all be able to talk and share our theories, then that isn't my problem.

[BroHomo]

How is my having the theory that Krakoa is an evil thing ruining your own enjoyment of this story?

I don't think I'm harassing anyone, I hope I haven't been rude, I'm just sharing my theory. If that really damages your enjoyment of the comics and you keep coming to a forum about the X-Men, a place where we should all be able to talk and share our theories, then that isn't my problem.

I was referring to the people enjoying the status quo KraKoa adds to the X-Men

[Captain Nash]

I think how long this last will depend on how long Hickman's run is. Could it really be the new planned for status quo, or is his end game with this to show an eventual "fall of paradise"? If he's not intending to have it come crashing down at his eventual runs' end, I wouldn't put it too long after he leaves, a year at most. There's a ton of stuff already brewing to cause problems that will eventually cause them to be unwelcome, at least in Krakoa's free society. Shaw, Selene, Emplate, Omega Red, Sabretooth, Sinister and Mystique all either have personalities that are going to be all for chaos and power, or in Emplate's case his power is a curse. Interestingly enough of the big X-Villains it's Apocalypse I can believe the most believes in Krakoa, so long as he's able to continue his own experiments. Sinister MIGHT be manageable, but truthfully he's always a wild card. He's not so much for power as he is for manipulation and knowledge, so his double crossings may not be as obvious as others.

[JB]

I think how long this last will depend on how long Hickman's run is. Could it really be the new planned for status quo, or is his end game with this to show an eventual "fall of paradise"? If he's not intending to have it come crashing down at his eventual runs' end, I wouldn't put it too long after he leaves, a year at most. There's a ton of stuff already brewing to cause problems that will eventually cause them to be unwelcome, at least in Krakoa's free society. Shaw, Selene, Emplate, Omega Red, Sabretooth, Sinister and Mystique all either have personalities that are going to be all for chaos and power, or in Emplate's case his power is a curse. Interestingly enough of the big X-Villains it's Apocalypse I can believe the most believes in Krakoa, so long as he's able to continue his own experiments. Sinister MIGHT be manageable, but truthfully he's always a wild card. He's not so much for power as he is for manipulation and knowledge, so his double crossings may not be as obvious as others.

I would hope Hickman isn't building all this up just to tear it down but one never knows. Apparently we're going to see businesses on the island soon according to Jordan.

As someone mentioned on another thread, Gorgon and Black Tom have shown they are on board, •-[A]-• is doing his thing and Exodus seems chill. Callisto is liking her role as White Knight so hopefully that will continue. But yeah the ones you list are the big question marks.

[Rosebunse]

I know we really haven't seen a ton of Apocalypse in the past decade, so maybe I'm off, but he strikes me as someone who both bides their time and believes that they're about everything.

I do think Apocalypse believes in Krakoa, but again, what version of Krakoa is he rooting for? We know he wants to get his Horsemen back and he has fought with the island in the past. We also have no reason to believe that he's totally abandoned his normal "survival of the fittest" ideology.

[Killerbee911]

As for 'mutants have grown too much for a school', say what you will, but at the end of the day, even in Hickman's grand new era, the narrative is still revolving around the same handful of characters it always has. One or two mega Sentinels later, Orchis, slut-shamming grannies, Sabretooth gutting Moira, or whatever it may be, and all the no-name mutants and all the tertiary mutants could be wiped out and we're back to the stories of Cyke, Jean, Wolverine, Storm, Xavier, Magneto, and whoever else.

Enjoy the ride, but like all things, it will be transient. Hickman is doing a great thing here, but it will not last beyond him. Just like Alexander's empire fell into pieces when he was gone, so too will Hickman's X works. He has been completely transparent in saying that he will put the toys back on the shelf when he is done, and there is no other way this will all shake out.

Hickman playing to those characters Cyke, Jean, Wolverine, Storm, Xavier, Magneto is him understanding what the X-men need to re-establish itself as franchise but truth of the matter is close to this I am in 30s now those characters are huge to me because they were in big stories and big projects but X-fans in their 20s and in their teens don't have the same experience. Wolverine isn't the baddest man on the planet to a generation of fans, He is the guy in too many comic and hey that girl Wolverine she is kinda cool.Storm isn't this big amazing leader, Storm is black panther girlfriend who shows up every once in to throw thunderbolts are people,etc. I am not saying this to bash the character nor I am trying to say they are not in important. I am saying us pretending that characters have the same importance as then fans(and publisher) the doing nostalgila thing. Yeah they are pushing the usual suspects which is the safe move but the sales of Excalibur and New Mutants over Marauders and X-force tell us a different tale other characters are very important to the franchise now.

The X-men have evolved beyond the simple setting it start with and putting thing back way it was just nostalgia hunting. I am not saying the school isn't going to work and they aren't going back to it, I am telling my fellow fans. That when they give back your classic X-men stuff put Wolverine,Cyclops,Jean Grey,Iceman,Storm,NightCrawler, and Beast with a school setting and maybe Rogue, Gambit, Colossus,Betsy, Angel, Bishop and Jubilee as the secondary squad that all your misc secondary favorites(who are actually important you) are going to either disappear or be put in books not with name X-men and with support of very best creator names and you know what happens then. I am not disagreeing with you other than fact of saying the characters who are important to fans are bigger than 20 or so characters that Marvel is going to nostalgia push. If you like smaller characters stuff like Utopia/Krakoa create chances for smaller characters to work alongside bigger characters.The X-men has comfortable evolve into franchise where it is mutants against everyone with these gigantic rosters that fans want to see Krakoa/Utopia/Genosha type set up gives franchise the ability to use the whole roster.

If the person who takes over after Hickman is smart they will understand that and keep the X-men in place where it can use its bigger roster and that is the smart thing imo.Beside Krakoa wasn't design stupidly there is a portal to Xavier's school. A slight change philosophy from closed off to more open and the school and mutant nation is play. Krakoa is built last longer than people think imo

[Ferro]

Here's the thing: the Morrison era set up this whole idea that humans had an expiration date and that mutant were taking over. They were creating their own cultures and communities, and growing in numbers geometrically. That was a concept ripe for exploration through new vehicles like X-Corporation and XSE; we could have had 20 years of those stories, but as soon as Morrison left, Marvel systematically undid everything, to the extent that they killed off all mutants except for about 200.

This Hickman era will be much the same. Sure, one could play in this concept for decades, but really, if you have a mutant nation, extracting the wealth of humans with their miracle flowers, ready to usurp the world with their economic stranglehold, with Omega mutants capable of rewriting time and space and creating whole universes, what the heck are Spider-Man and Captain America and Hawkeye supposed to do? This is a shared universe. Hickman is reaching for the sun, but like Icarus, those wings will melt and the whole thing will come plummeting back to the ground before long.

As for 'mutants have grown too much for a school', say what you will, but at the end of the day, even in Hickman's grand new era, the narrative is still revolving around the same handful of characters it always has. One or two mega Sentinels later, Orchis, slut-shamming grannies, Sabretooth gutting Moira, or whatever it may be, and all the no-name mutants and all the tertiary mutants could be wiped out and we're back to the stories of Cyke, Jean, Wolverine, Storm, Xavier, Magneto, and whoever else.

Enjoy the ride, but like all things, it will be transient. Hickman is doing a great thing here, but it will not last beyond him. Just like Alexander's empire fell into pieces when he was gone, so too will Hickman's X works. He has been completely transparent in saying that he will put the toys back on the shelf when he is done, and there is no other way this will all shake out.

mind their fucking businesses or help mutants so they wouldn't have to do all those things to survive, thats what those flops should do

[ARkadelphia]

If Krakoa dies, the resurrection protocols will just bring it back.

[Killerbee911]

Almost forgot this my ideal scenario for what happens after "Krakoa"

- The resurrection protocols go away( I think this happens mid way during Hickman run and total flips how Krakoa is set up)
- Krakoa goes dormant taking away the drugs and portals but leaving a normal island
- X-men save the world and get recognized as heroes, They pass world wide laws against mutant discrimination
- Krakoa has new democratic government and elects a popular mutant in franchise to be president of Krakoa, Invite humans to live on the island.
- After a small power struggle X-men fight a group of villains,Kick them off Krakoa. The X-men are pseudo forced off Krakoa so that Krakoa can be seen as "normal" country.

What does leave a mutant island that is still a world power, X-men having a unofficial relationship secret relationship with island. One group(X-men,Excalibur,New Mutants) goes back to mansion "X-men" to be public heroes X-men, The other( X-force, X-factor, Hellions) group decides be "X-force" and help mutants from the shadows.Nation of Krakoa is a factor in both of the set ups. I don't see Krakoa imploding as much it can evolve into something more conventional. Fans are so used to trama in the X-men that X-men can't get a happy ending in their minds. I think Hickman can show at the end of his run that the future timeline humans and mutants is on path coexisting and Xavier and Magneto remove themselves from process ironically them not being a part of the process is what make thing better.

But hey why hope for a optimic ending when you can root for mutants once again being traumatized in their safe space.

[yogaflame]

Krakoa is a drug cartel. That's the only thing giving them legitimacy on the world stage: life extending/life improving drugs. Made by Krakoa itself. If that supply stops for any reason, if the humans figure out how to make their own, they'll nuke the island from space and send in the Sentinels(or the Avengers) to clean up any survivors.

Look at Wakanda. Actually very similar in some ways. A magical, advanced black society. Rich beyond measure with the world's largest, near exclusive, supply of Vibranium, a metal with amazing properties. But despite technological and administrative superiority, they never expand beyond a small patch of land in the middle of the continent. They never go to war with the world powers who are in fact damaging the whole planet and abusing their populations. In fact, especially in recent decades, Wakanda instead faces external and internal threats; Doom and Namor, civil war and strife, their own militarism and exceptionalism turned against them(the current Coates stories).

At the end of the day, the X-Men's whole thing is being 'hated and feared' by the masses, despite their heroics. They are always underdogs. They are always the minority. And as long as the Marvel Universe at large wants to be somewhat analogous to the real world, they don't get to win, they don't get to transform the whole world into an organic utopia of orgies and fireworks.

[Zelena]

Krakoa is a drug cartel. That's the only thing giving them legitimacy on the world stage: life extending/life improving drugs. Made by Krakoa itself. If that supply stops for any reason, if the humans figure out how to make their own, they'll nuke the island from space and send in the Sentinels(or the Avengers) to clean up any survivors.

Look at Wakanda. Actually very similar in some ways. A magical, advanced black society. Rich beyond measure with the world's largest, near exclusive, supply of Vibranium, a metal with amazing properties. But despite technological and administrative superiority, they never expand beyond a small patch of land in the middle of the continent. They never go to war with the world powers who are in fact damaging the whole planet and abusing their populations. In fact, especially in recent decades, Wakanda instead faces external and internal threats; Doom and Namor, civil war and strife, their own militarism and exceptionalism turned against them(the current Coates stories).

At the end of the day, the X-Men's whole thing is being 'hated and feared' by the masses, despite their heroics. They are always underdogs. They are always the minority. And as long as the Marvel Universe at large wants to be somewhat analogous to the real world, they don't get to win, they don't get to transform the whole world into an organic utopia of orgies and fireworks.

I thought the mutants will be happily staying on their island until the human race goes extinct.

And I don't think the mutants are seeking any love from the humans: you usually avoid blackmailing people in order to do that.

You cannot say that, in reality, a minority situation cannot improve: it's not true. The problem is that the mutants are more than a minority: they possess powers that are at odds with a humane society. Between the one who can make grow plants faster and a reality warper, there's a world of difference. You cannot just label them mutants and forget about it.

[Captain Nash]

Almost forgot this my ideal scenario for what happens after "Krakoa"

- The resurrection protocols go away( I think this happens mid way during Hickman run and total flips how Krakoa is set up)
- Krakoa goes dormant taking away the drugs and portals but leaving a normal island
- X-men save the world and get recognized as heroes, They pass world wide laws against mutant discrimination
- Krakoa has new democratic government and elects a popular mutant in franchise to be president of Krakoa, Invite humans to live on the island.
- After a small power struggle X-men fight a group of villains,Kick them off Krakoa. The X-men are pseudo forced off Krakoa so that Krakoa can be seen as "normal" country.

What does leave a mutant island that is still a world power, X-men having a unofficial relationship secret relationship with island. One group(X-men,Excalibur,New Mutants) goes back to mansion "X-men" to be public heroes X-men, The other( X-force, X-factor, Hellions) group decides be "X-force" and help mutants from the shadows.Nation of Krakoa is a factor in both of the set ups. I don't see Krakoa imploding as much it can evolve into something more conventional. Fans are so used to trama in the X-men that X-men can't get a happy ending in their minds. I think Hickman can show at the end of his run that the future timeline humans and mutants is on path coexisting and Xavier and Magneto remove themselves from process ironically them not being a part of the process is what make thing better.

But hey why hope for a optimic ending when you can root for mutants once again being traumatized in their safe space.

I'm not sure if I think all the points you listed will happen, but I completely agree that at some point the resurrection process is going to break. Yes, there is trauma, massive trauma of death that the resurrected mutants will have, but when it boils down to it, with the resurrection process in place danger and death no longer have the same meaning and stakes.

[Ferro]

I thought the mutants will be happily staying on their island until the human race goes extinct.

And I don't think the mutants are seeking any love from the humans: you usually avoid blackmailing people in order to do that.

You cannot say that, in reality, a minority situation cannot improve: it's not true. The problem is that the mutants are more than a minority: they possess powers that are at odds with a humane society. Between the one who can make grow plants faster and a reality warper, there's a world of difference. You cannot just label them mutants and forget about it.

adorable that you focus on the reaction, and not the atrocious treatment that lead them to play the nations game.
you sound like a lovely teacher that focuses more on what the bullied kid did to stand up for himself in the face of abuse, and not , you know the abuse and bullying that started it.

"oh the muties should just offer these drugs willly nilly unlike every other pharmaceutical in the world, how dare they hold humanity acountable for all them sentinels we funded and bought, iTS NOT FAAAAAAAAIR, why cant we abuse them into submission like every other time"

[Ferro]

I'm not sure if I think all the points you listed will happen, but I completely agree that at some point the resurrection process is going to break. Yes, there is trauma, massive trauma of death that the resurrected mutants will have, but when it boils down to it, with the resurrection process in place danger and death no longer have the same meaning and stakes.

wich has been never, its comics, death has no meaning, at least this saves me the stupid ressurections stories that are always convoluted messes

[Chris0013]

wich has been never, its comics, death has no meaning, at least this saves me the stupid ressurections stories that are always convoluted messes

Tell that to John Proudstar or Petra or Sway They finally have a way to bring them back and he has not been seen. Guess some death has different levels of meaning depending on how important a mutant is.