Countdown for Krakoa's downfall

[CoCoBandz]

So you understand why Ursalink doesn't like it…

Too many orgies.

[Nigel909]

Playing God with life and treating it with no respect with the whole thing about resurrection in immoral at ALL levels.

Mutants are crossing too many lives this time, they think they have conquered death, but they are wrong. Not even immortal Gods can conquer death. Such thing is going to cost them DEARLY.

In fact, and idea comes to mind. In Marvel Universe, Death is actually an entity that has manifested many times to several characters, like Deadpool and Thanos. Do you remember how many times Ben Reilly was resurrected and killed by Miles Warren while he perfected the cloning's process? Ben Reilly ended up becoming insane and adopting the identity of the Jackal. Now, imagine if several mutants pass through the same several times and go nutso. This will be a disaster at all levels!! Even more if Death itself decides to intervine and stop Mutants for taking her name as nothing. Even worst, what if Thanos, who is in love of Death, decides to attack Krakoa and punish the Mutants? Not even all Mutants together will be enought to face Thanos and his army.

You claim that the mutants are becoming increasingly immoral and your basis for this centers on the resurrection process. It seems you think attempting to "cheat " death is intrinsically immoral . I think very many people would disagree strongly .( I was a doctor before I retired)
In support of this you basically invoke unexpected consequences. I would suggest that failing to foresee consequences does not make the original actions immoral , at worst perhaps misguided. You further suggest that the fact that Thanos would disapprove of resurrection and might intervene is evidence of immorality . I would disagree , I would suggest that what a villain disapproves of is lightly to be very moral. ( same with mistress death , that fine upstanding model of morality.)

Now as to resurrecting people against their will , I would accept that as a little more complex. Clearly , that's not going to happen to those currently alive . We've seen that the people who died on the Orchid station wanted to live , and wills have already been mentioned. I can't see anybody being brought back if their will says no.
Genosha is different matter ,there is no way of knowing what these people would want ,though it's worth remembering that they were murdered , cut down on their prime as it where. Good chance they aren't happy with that.
To be fair ,I suspect that if they discovered that the majority of Genoshans were unhappy to be back ,then they would rethink their plans.
As things stand I suppose all they could do with the occasional unhappy customer would be to offer support and agree to no further rebirth.

I almost forgot ,Kitty ! Where on Earth did you get the idea that they don't care about her death ? Did you not see Emma collapse ? Storms outburst ? Ocean to ballistic? Have you seen the upcoming cover showing the funeral ?
No evidence of not caring , no evidence of immorality.

Of course I am not claiming there is not something "off" with Krakoa . We have been given plenty of hints.
Is resurrection all it seems ?
Have the resurrected been altered by Xavier or Krakoa ? Someone else ?
Is the population of Krakoa being manipulated by Xavier ,Krakow ,Doug ?
What is Moira hiding ?
What I Xavier hiding
What is Doug up to ?
Lots of hints , lots of questions.
But to me ,so far ,no immorality.

Oh I'm fine with orgies too !

[Frobisher]

I don’t really see how resurrection is any more immoral than giving someone medicine or performing surgery to save them from a condition that would otherwise have killed them. Are those not also things that might once have been considered “playing god”?

[Nigel909]

I don’t really see how resurrection is any more immoral than giving someone medicine or performing surgery to save them from a condition that would otherwise have killed them. Are those not also things that might once have been considered “playing god”?

Yes agree absolutely.

[BroHomo]

You claim that the mutants are becoming increasingly immoral and your basis for this centers on the resurrection process. It seems you think attempting to "cheat " death is intrinsically immoral . I think very many people would disagree strongly .( I was a doctor before I retired)
In support of this you basically invoke unexpected consequences. I would suggest that failing to foresee consequences does not make the original actions immoral , at worst perhaps misguided. You further suggest that the fact that Thanos would disapprove of resurrection and might intervene is evidence of immorality . I would disagree , I would suggest that what a villain disapproves of is lightly to be very moral. ( same with mistress death , that fine upstanding model of morality.)

Now as to resurrecting people against their will , I would accept that as a little more complex. Clearly , that's not going to happen to those currently alive . We've seen that the people who died on the Orchid station wanted to live , and wills have already been mentioned. I can't see anybody being brought back if their will says no.
Genosha is different matter ,there is no way of knowing what these people would want ,though it's worth remembering that they were murdered , cut down on their prime as it where. Good chance they aren't happy with that.
To be fair ,I suspect that if they discovered that the majority of Genoshans were unhappy to be back ,then they would rethink their plans.
As things stand I suppose all they could do with the occasional unhappy customer would be to offer support and agree to no further rebirth.

I almost forgot ,Kitty ! Where on Earth did you get the idea that they don't care about her death ? Did you not see Emma collapse ? Storms outburst ? Ocean to ballistic? Have you seen the upcoming cover showing the funeral ?
No evidence of not caring , no evidence of immorality.

Of course I am not claiming there is not something "off" with Krakoa . We have been given plenty of hints.
Is resurrection all it seems ?
Have the resurrected been altered by Xavier or Krakoa ? Someone else ?
Is the population of Krakoa being manipulated by Xavier ,Krakow ,Doug ?
What is Moira hiding ?
What I Xavier hiding
What is Doug up to ?
Lots of hints , lots of questions.
But to me ,so far ,no immorality.

Oh I'm fine with orgies too !

Ha having a Dr around would definitely help if things go arwy

Nice post!

[Nigel909]

One more point I forgot. Kurt thinking of a new religion . How can that he considered immoral ?
And the way you expressed it , "dares" to think of a new religion . Why shouldn't he? And , let's face it , how many religions must there be in the MU ?
Countless?
What's one more ?
You might , of course, take the view that all religions are inherently immoral ( I have some sympathy for this view ) .

[Zelena]

I don’t really see how resurrection is any more immoral than giving someone medicine or performing surgery to save them from a condition that would otherwise have killed them. Are those not also things that might once have been considered “playing god”?

Well, in our world, people don't want to die, right? And, usually, they want to have children too…
You see how it could cause a problem…
Rather than 'playing god', I suppose that the imbalance of it could be considered as ''against the divine laws"…

[Veitha]

Well, in our world, people don't want to die, right? And, usually, they want to have children too…
You see how it could cause a problem…
Rather than 'playing god', I suppose that the imbalance of it could be considered as ''against the divine laws"…

A handful of the X-Men have been in the divine department in the past, so I think they might think screw the divine lol

Why would they care about human morality or playing god when they have had a taste of infinity.

I do agree with Nigel and Frobisher btw, very nice points.

[Chris0013]

Errr isn't hoping a country get attached just as if not more immoral than bringing back loved ones or people who died trying to stop people who wish to desTroy them?
Smdh

I am assuming you mean 'attacked' and not 'attached' here.

I want it to fall sooner rather than later....but I don't think there needs to be an external cause.

Mystique has been hinted at to be someone about to go against them because of Destiny's prophecy and how Mystique is being treated with regards to Destiny's resurrection.

And some of these villains will just return to form....what happens when Sinister starts experimenting on kids in secret? or Apocalypse starts with his survival of the fittest to weed out 'weak' mutants??

What if some mutants just cannot live with former enemies. With people who tried...at at times succeeded...in killing them?? When (if?) Sammy Pare is resurrected will he be able to accept that Black Tom is now considered a 'hero' and protector of Krakoa??

[Zelena]

I am assuming you mean 'attacked' and not 'attached' here.

I want it to fall sooner rather than later....but I don't think there needs to be an external cause.

Mystique has been hinted at to be someone about to go against them because of Destiny's prophecy and how Mystique is being treated with regards to Destiny's resurrection.

And some of these villains will just return to form....what happens when Sinister starts experimenting on kids in secret? or Apocalypse starts with his survival of the fittest to weed out 'weak' mutants??

Hasn't Apocalypse started with his Crucible?

What if some mutants just cannot live with former enemies. With people who tried...at at times succeeded...in killing them?? When (if?) Sammy Pare is resurrected will he be able to accept that Black Tom is now considered a 'hero' and protector of Krakoa??

So far, it didn't happen… and it wasn't because offences weren't serious enough. I agree that it is weird.

[Midnight_v]

5 years 8 months or so unless something horrible happens to hickmanm god forbid.

So, you can start your countdown from there. Im sure there a countdown app somewhere online.
You can just put it your sig "x years, y months, z days" till krakoa falls or "till the xmen can be heroes again.
If it means that much to you. But seriously theres a lot of good reading out there somewhere, even if you feel this is an eyesore.

Speaking of sigs

Yogaflame: you have of the some takes Ive seen about this ever.

Krakoa is a drug cartel

And

If the want to be in anyway analogous to the real world... they dont win

I agree fully.

Im super amused by the fans of it becuase their whole thing is:
"I've suffered so long! LET ME HAVE THIS!!!"

So much so that theres wide-eyed, white knuckled fury sometimes in the forums when people attempt to discuss the natural narrative end of the run of this story.

So.. Im gonna say from a NARRATIVE sense.

Asgard only has one ending: Ragnarok.

From a readers perspective I'm just enjoying this wild ride, but from someone with a deep understanding of stories, you gotta realize that this is analogous to every fallen paradise tale ever.


Build a foundation on a lie. (All are welcome. Except precogs) because of prophecy

Treat the neighbor nations/people as beneath you scoffing at thier laws. Aesir with Giant and dwarves.

The hypocritical binding one of your own who is a beast. Fenrir/Sabertooth

Golden apples of Idunn and Goldballs Eggs.... in the end even the Gods pay for their "sin".

Its not even that big a deal to TALK about the end because in this type of tale the ending is just as important the long road to get there.
In fact if the mutant WERE more heroic or more human people would HATE them getting done wrong.

I was furious when Nimrod Dominated apocalypse like that, but then I saw him ritualistically slaughter Aero... I was like ahhhh I get it. Hickmans a really great writer, but everyone should take a step back and realize great stories all of them have a beginning, a middle and
An End.

Enjoy this beginning as much as you can

[Nigel909]

5 years 8 months or so unless something horrible happens to hickmanm god forbid.

So, you can start your countdown from there. Im sure there a countdown app somewhere online.
You can just put it your sig "x years, y months, z days" till krakoa falls or "till the xmen can be heroes again.
If it means that much to you. But seriously theres a lot of good reading out there somewhere, even if you feel this is an eyesore.

Speaking of sigs

Yogaflame: you have of the some takes Ive seen about this ever.



And


I agree fully.

Im super amused by the fans of it becuase their whole thing is:
"I've suffered so long! LET ME HAVE THIS!!!"

So much so that theres wide-eyed, white knuckled fury sometimes in the forums when people attempt to discuss the natural narrative end of the run of this story.

So.. Im gonna say from a NARRATIVE sense.

Asgard only has one ending: Ragnarok.

From a readers perspective I'm just enjoying this wild ride, but from someone with a deep understanding of stories, you gotta realize that this is analogous to every fallen paradise tale ever.


Build a foundation on a lie. (All are welcome. Except precogs) because of prophecy

Treat the neighbor nations/people as beneath you scoffing at thier laws. Aesir with Giant and dwarves.

The hypocritical binding one of your own who is a beast. Fenrir/Sabertooth

Golden apples of Idunn and Goldballs Eggs.... in the end even the Gods pay for their "sin".

Its not even that big a deal to TALK about the end because in this type of tale the ending is just as important the long road to get there.
In fact if the mutant WERE more heroic or more human people would HATE them getting done wrong.

I was furious when Nimrod Dominated apocalypse like that, but then I saw him ritualistically slaughter Aero... I was like ahhhh I get it. Hickmans a really great writer, but everyone should take a step back and realize great stories all of them have a beginning, a middle and
An End.

Enjoy this beginning as much as you can

Great points but I would say yes and no.
Yes all narratives have an end , but the narrative of the school , the mansion ,and the dream of peaceful coexistence lasted the best part of 60 years.
Is it unreasonable to hope that the narrative of building a mutant homeland could last some time ?
Doesn't the story of the Norse gods extend over hundreds (thousands ?) Of years ?
Modern day example of nation building could be Isreal . That story still continues.

[Rev9]

I think there is a huge problem that no amount of resurrections can do away with.I suspect that is why Nightcrawler was used as a viewpoint.His whole fathered by demon ,rejected from heaven stories perhaps has made his moral dilemma murky.However let us try to fuse fiction with genuine human faith in the afterlife( which some would claim is fictitious) Anyway so let's say Nightcrawler is a believer in God and wants his soul to go to heaven and be with God.Krakoa is a big problem 1.The resurrections make his earthly mission unending meaning his faith if unwavering ,he is denied his soul's greatest wish.If it's instead making his soul waver because after death he sees no pearly gates but simply Krakoans egg yolks then Krakoa is in fact destroying his soul if that is even possible. 2 The other take away from this is the pernicious and disingenuous substitution of Krakoa for heaven itself.That is absurd because Krakoa is not heaven no matter how Magnus,Xavier or Moira paint it to be so.

I actually feel sorry for religious mutants like Nightcrawler or Sooraya, because I feel like their faith is at odds with Krakoa. Sure maybe Nightcrawler may start a new faith and it's hard to ex machina real world spirituality into a work of fiction by this I mean not inspiring but actually creating new spiritual ethos to substitute for one that already exists.It looks to me like to put it simply Nightcrawler will be like the thing he hates most , believe a lie that he creates for others to believe. The gymnastics of this dilemma I would not wish on anyone

[Zelena]

Great points but I would say yes and no.
Yes all narratives have an end , but the narrative of the school , the mansion ,and the dream of peaceful coexistence lasted the best part of 60 years.
Is it unreasonable to hope that the narrative of building a mutant homeland could last some time ?
Doesn't the story of the Norse gods extend over hundreds (thousands ?) Of years ?
Modern day example of nation building could be Isreal . That story still continues.

The point is: Krakoa is a fairy tale. Fairy tales are made to send out messages.
So far, Krakoa mimics the story of the legendary Atlantis and his proud Atlants.
This story is told to speak about hubris. If it goes until the end in the same way, the downfall is inevitable.

[Nigel909]

The point is: Krakoa is a fairy tale. Fairy tales are made to send out messages.
So far, Krakoa mimics the story of the legendary Atlantis and his proud Atlants.
This story is told to speak about hubris. If it goes until the end in the same way, the downfall is inevitable.

You may well be correct , but it's a pretty depressing , nihilistic outlook .All our hopes , aspirations , dreams end with the grave.
Rather like Ozimandius.
Or Poe : for the play is the tragedy "life" and the hero the conqueror worm"
All true but very depressing.
Does depressing sell comic books ?