Considering that virtually ALL (save for apocalypse) mutants that appear and the council of 12 are FROM the West, it is utterly absurd to speak of Krakoa as anything but another example of Western culture. Practically all interactions occur between mutants who were born and raised in the West. Being a mutant doesn't come with some sort of culture separate from where they were raised. They all act like Westerners. All the major players have classic Western attitudes.
To assume otherwise is wishful thinking.
Every element we see in the comic refers to something we see in Western culture. The krakoa club scene was the kind you'd ONLY EVER SEE in a Western nation. Nowhere else in the world do women mix so freely with men. Even Asian nations like China are not that tolerant of women mixing freely with men. When it comes to relations between males and females Krakoa is 100% in the Western camp.
It's even more insulting to describe Krakoa as an example of any culture outside of Western culture, thanks to the crucible. No culture in the world has anything like that ritual. No culture in the world ritualizes murder for whatever reason.
If the crucible is a reflection of any culture, it reflects Western values as we regularly see in our fiction, games Etc. It has to be simply because the main writer is an American. It is a rare writer indeed who can write accurately about the fundamentals of another culture when they try to, and Hickman isn't even trying. He is writing Krakoa as simply another Western nation albeit populated by mutants.
Last edited by jonincentex; 03-30-2020 at 07:22 PM.
If you think Japan and Korea don’t have clubs I have some news for you
Everything in comics is made up, questioning how they got there is a logical reaction. Look beyond what happens on the page, and be curious about how Krakoa governs. It's unnerving how you're trying to shut down anyone questioning the Crucible. Especially on things which we don't know all the details about how they came about. I'm curious how you think the process was for how Apocalypse got the Crucible into law.
There's more to how laws get made then simply voting, including on Krakoa. That's the final part of the process, what about the rest? We saw this spelt out when they made the Three Laws. Do you honestly believe not a single person on the Council had an opinion on other options to that subject?
Gonna paste three things since Crucible keeps being discussed with people seemingly not remembering or acknowledging past comments about it:
Beautifully worded, this person understood the issue and the concept involved. The brutality *is part of the purpose of regeneration and a way to reclaim your identity*.
Yes, clearly it's meant to be "unnerving" at least superficially but there is a deeper metaphor as well. Again, Melody Guthrie CHOOSES to take part. Apocalypse is not actually attacking her, he is ritually performing a ceremony WITH her.
Correct - the issue demonstrated her relatives being upset. It demonstrated Nightcrawler being upset/skeptical/leery. This was to acknowledge that on the surface for many readers the Crucible will be bizarre, strange, violent, horrible, unethical. But then you read the whole issue, pay attention, and let it sit in your mind a bit, and you notice the ecstasy Melody has by the end.
Forget the old ways - Krakoa is god.
OBEY
Well obviously....sure Sinister had something kinky in mind....Jean.. something a lil more vanilla...but the majority voted and the crucible was the way it went. You can keep making a case for it's barbarism but if you think Storm, Magneto, Jean, Nightcrawler, Emma, Exodus, Xavier aren't putting the well-being of Mutants first I'd loooove to see your nominees for Mutants fit to delegate on the council
GrindrStone(D)
We're discussing how they ended up with voting for Crucible, not the Crucible itself. The opposition to date assumes there was no process beforehand, somehow Apocalypse got to the ultimate judge of how to rebirth mutants and nobody had any opinions on the Council to give as alternatives, they vote, and it's made into law. We know that process isn't true as we saw how they make laws with the Three Laws meeting.
But we know how this came about? Nightcrawler even says that apocalypse is solution was basically a compromised because the council couldn't decide what to do with the depowered mutants they were basically in a Deadlock. Apocalypse's way was the compromise and obviously satisfied enough people on the QC to get a majority vote.
I mean, I personally think they could have done better than the Crucible in-universe. But as a reader? It’s great.
I don’t understand this notion people seem to have that it’s bad writing when characters make decisions we disagree with.
I've read the issue twice already, there is nobody cheering. Like one dude has his arm raised, but like you said the crowds are kind of a blur. What we can see of everyone else, they are serious and staying still and being respectful.
Unless you have a scan of something more clear cut, the evidence doesn't support your claim.
No, the article quoted by Tycon and AbnormallyNormal quoted pretty much sums of eloquently why this was a very interesting route to take. And it holds up better if the detractors have to make stuff up (like crowd cheering during Melody's fight because "blood thirsty") to tear it down.
Also this. The X-Men franchise is filled to the brim with these characters making odd and very gray moral decisions.
Claremont alone did a lot of weird and controversial stuff. We wouldn't have the franchise we have now without that kind of story telling. This is not a more straight forward superhero narrative, and it never was. It's most iconic storylines revolve around the lead heroine going insane with power and committing suicide and a possible future where Mutants are in concentration camps.
Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 03-31-2020 at 03:31 PM.