Countdown for Krakoa's downfall

[Ferro]

Scarlet Witch turned people human, she didn't kill them. The X Factor thing wasn't shown to be in anything other than one issue of X factor, which has bene promptly ignored. Apoc has destroyed the world three times in three time lines, and over the last few years tried to activate a gene bomb that would have wiped out humanity.

That this is all you have to defend against what I said speaks for itself.

there is a kid that drowns in the mansion's pool after the spell, she did kill people over her abuse of magic she couldnt control.
no one here pretends apocalypse is this and that but for now he seems to be adapting to a new status quo of his own acceptance and it makes sense but he's still apocalypse.
if wanda was treated according to her actions we wouldnt hate her

[Nigel909]

Well this thread seems to have turned completely pear shaped! Still I'd ?like to make one of two observations.

First I have to confess I've never read Mein Kampf , and would never claim to be an expert on Nazi philosophy . However comparing the mutants to Nazis seems almost perverse. The mutants are clearly the victims fleeing the oppressors for a safe haven.
And Exodus camp fire stories about the big bad witch compared to Nazi indoctrination ?

Second , the very idea that only wartime Germany and Japan have conducted grotesque medical experiments is absurd. Kisinith s list is ,as he says , is just a small sample. ( the American syphilis studies are of course essential reading 're medical ethics). And as to the morality of state actors just a list of atrocities would make your hair call out.

Small example of a non USA /UK incident , the French operation satanique ,the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior.

Anyway I need a rest from this thread . I'm off to see if the Krakoan appreciation thread is taking in refugees !

[Zelena]

there is a kid that drowns in the mansion's pool after the spell, she did kill people over her abuse of magic she couldnt control.
no one here pretends apocalypse is this and that but for now he seems to be adapting to a new status quo of his own acceptance and it makes sense but he's still apocalypse.
if wanda was treated according to her actions we wouldnt hate her

So you hate Wanda not because of things she did but because people weren't enough rough towards her.

[Ferro]

So you hate Wanda not because of things she did but because people weren't enough rough towards her.

both, but I no longer hate the inhumans after karma hit them like a truck, Wanda needs a similar hit to balance the scales

[Triniking1234]

Or not, because its a comic book not a sociological dissertation on making a new country for people with superpowers.
We don't need to see their toilets and plumbing. We don't need to see the grocery stores. We don't need to see the accounting and tax preparation. We don't need to see 3+ hours in customs and immigration every time they want to go to New York. This is a medium where the majority of problems are solved with martial arts and laser beams, its ok to let some of the minutia go by.

People out here like "This fictional story isn't good because it doesn't follow the logic of reality".

[Ferro]

People out here like "This fictional story isn't good because it doesn't follow the logic of reality".

but if it did it would boring, pretentious and totaly unecessary since comics are meant to be fun and fiction, then hickman is an edgelord obssesed with realism that only writes dull bleak stories

[BroHomo]

Scarlet Witch turned people human, she didn't kill them.

For most mutants there is little difference.... As for the second part of your sentence... pictures are worth a thousand words lol

The X Factor thing wasn't shown to be in anything other than one issue of X factor, which has bene promptly ignored..

What XFactor thing? the Endangered Species mini? Preeety sure there was another reference to her spell being seen affecting the multiverse...maybe in Exiles or Excalibur....either way...Its canon until proven otherwise.

Apoc has destroyed the world three times in three time lines, and over the last few years tried to activate a gene bomb that would have wiped out humanity.


That this is all you have to defend against what I said speaks for itself.

Well I let actual pages and character dialogue do most of the talking for me lol. But using Apocalypse actions in Other non 616 realities as proof of Krakoa's imminent fall or the X-Men's corruption Is illogical,and very hypocritical esp when you got one responsible for countless deaths in the 616, playing superhero.
Buuuut I fear we're getting off topic...

[LordUltimus]

Apocalypse bragged about ending the Bronze age, he killed just as many if not more than Wanda if we look back over thousands of years.

[Steel Inquisitor]

For most mutants there is little difference.... As for the second part of your sentence... pictures are worth a thousand words lol

Ok. You do realise that was unintentional, don't you? If she wanted mutants dead this thread would be about her saying "Kill all mutants" not "No more mutants" and she wouldn't have thrown herself at the X-men mercy as soon as she could or tried to help them repopulate.

What do you know about the storyline Age of Apocalypse? There are other time lines where he conquered the world, turning it into a hellscape - which was three last I checked, but we'll stick to the most iconic.

What XFactor thing? the Endangered Species mini? Preeety sure there was another reference to her spell being seen affecting the multiverse...maybe in Exiles or Excalibur....either way...Its canon until proven otherwise.

You don't even know whether it's referenced in another comic and you insist that is all it needs to be canon? LOL Canon is a numerous concept in comics, not everything is kept canon and writers ideas can be swept away very easily. That's how we got here in the first place, Wanda in these sorts of stories is out of character from the get-go. This all stretches back when John Byrne tried to make her Dark Phoenix 2.0, a storyline that is controversial to this day with Scarlet Witch fans.

Well I let actual pages and character dialogue do most of the talking for me lol. But using Apocalypse actions in Other non 616 realities as proof of Krakoa's imminent fall or the X-Men's corruption Is illogical,and very hypocritical esp when you got one responsible for countless deaths in the 616, playing superhero.
Buuuut I fear we're getting off topic...

It's not off-topic given that Apocalypse is a high profile member of Krakatoa. Be consistent, either you think activities which occur in other times lines and realities count or not. If Scarlet Witch's (nebulous) impact on alternate realities are canon, so is even time line Apocalypse conquered the world and I guarantee you everyone of those have large bodycounts than the people killed accentually on M-Day. And unlike Wanda, he meant it.

I'll repost this:

Here's the following events of what he did in the 2000's. When he was reborn via Techno organic virus he creates new Horsemen, comes to the X-Mansion making famine use their powers to weaken the X-men so they'll take his blood as an antidote and make him a mutant messiah. After that he confronts the leaders at the United Nations with an ultimatum: he'll destroy 90% of the world's population, ensuring humanity and mutants are on equal terms to fight for the survival of the fittest or he'll unleash a plague which will destroy humanity.

In the "Heroic Age" versions of Apocalypse and the Four Horsemen attack Avengers Tower when Kang breaks time. Fantomex clones him into a teenager to be raised in the X-men's Academy (Evan), during the "AXIS" storyline he's aged to adulthood he leads an uprising of mutants against Avengers Tower, to detonate a Celestial-based Gene-bomb to wipe out every human on Earth and is only stopped by Carnage sacrificing himself. Deadpool convinces Evan to stop by saying that everyone liked Evan and hated Apocalypse and the two ran away together.

The "Apocalypse Wars" had the X-men travel thousands of years into the future finding a destroyed New York City, where Apocalypse had conquered the world. It worked like this: those who survived certain trials lived under his rule and it was a world tied to his health with the Four Horseman acting as his "antibodies."

After that his body degenerated and he put his consciousness into human hosts, he got to his fourth, and he becomes fully human in the process. When he found the perfect host he killed the rest of the human test subjects and destroyed the island he was on which had been altered by is experiments.

What people aren't understanding about Apocalypse is that he's not a modern terrorist or criminal he's from a much older, primitive lens where all that mattered was domination and death. Don't think of him in terms of modern philosophy or culture, and he's shown he hasn't regressed in these stances, like human sacrifices, gladiator bouts and cult indoctrination. The Crucible shows he still continues these beliefs.

I haven't gone into what he was doing before all this.

You want me to trust this person with the future of mutant kind? No thanks. He makes Magneto and Shaw look like petty school bullies when it comes to super villainy.

Apoc didn't give up his ideas about mutant supremacy and Might Makes Right, the X-Men adopted that.

Your response to Apocalypse only makes sense if you think he was created by Hickman for Krakatoa, and that he has no past in the comics to speak of. His presence is a massive counter argument against Krakatoa by simply saying "but Apocalypse," he's that bad a villain in the Marvel universe.

Wanda's not "playing super-hero" that's what she's been the majority of her career in Marvel. It's like blaming Jean Grey for being the Phoenix when she destroyed a planet.

[Ferro]

I cant take you seriously when you make up excuses for wanda and then criticize us for the same, wanda WENT after her power, jean got it on an accident
and krakatoa really isnt a creative roast.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I cant take you seriously when you make up excuses for wanda and then criticize us for the same.

The above poster openly took Apocalypse over Scarlet Witch. At her worst she's nothing to him at being a villain, and that includes when she's being possessed by elder god Chthon.

[Ferro]

The above poster openly took Apocalypse over Scarlet Witch. At her worst she's nothing to him at being a villain, and that includes when she's being possessed by elder god Chthon.

yeah we know, his presence is the same and his value mixing into krakoa makes him an interesting figure that is becoming slightly more benevolent.
wanda does something of a similar category and is immediatly served her super heroic membership back.
One is a good story, the other is wonza's saga of constant terrible writting

[Triniking1234]

I cant take you seriously when you make up excuses for wanda and then criticize us for the same, wanda WENT after her power, jean got it on an accident
and krakatoa really isnt a creative roast.

I can't believe we're stuck with that.

So Wanda went to visit Doom for magic lessons before he got stuck in hell and those new powers caused her to have a relapse to her Darker than Scarlet mentality and after she messed up the Avengers, they tried to pawn her off to the X-Men but Pietro saved her by having her re-write reality but the heroes somehow retaliated against that so in a last ditch effort to prevent this nonsense from happening again she said No More Mutants.

Christ.

[Ferro]

I can't believe we're stuck with that.

So Wanda went to visit Doom for magic lessons before he got stuck in hell and those new powers caused her to have a relapse to her Darker than Scarlet mentality and after she messed up the Avengers, they tried to pawn her off to the X-Men but Pietro saved her by having her re-write reality but the heroes somehow retaliated against that so in a last ditch effort to prevent this nonsense from happening again she said No More Mutants.

Christ.

children's crusade did a terrible job besides being a bad mini

[Woozie]

How the god damn hell did this thread

ALSO

become a Wanda thread?