Countdown for Krakoa's downfall

[Veitha]

It does feel like Krakoa is increasingly unsustainable ethically and tonally for a lot of fans...

Hickman continues doubling down on the "cult" aspects

Once Moira makes herself known, Raven begins executing "the plan"... shit's gonna go down

Doug with the techno-organic virus , New Mutants and Shi'ar... Maddy Pryor appearing... a lot of potential harbingers of chaos

That's going to take a while. We're still in the first stages of the Krakoan situation.

I like that there's so many threats after years of countless villains that all looked the same.

[People Of The Earth]

They did please actually the read the books.

Tell me in what book they legislated on mutant-on-mutant killing then. I'm listening.

And what Shaw did to Kitty isn't really relevant because Shaw actually tried to permanently kill Kitty. You see that why culture mention is relevant because their difference between "True Death" ala Shaw trying to kill Kitty and "Death" which Rogue did Apocalypse and nobody even batted an eye.

You don't know that either, for all we know Apocalypse is the one who put his foot down preventing Rogue from facing any repercussions.
You can't infer there's nothing in the law regarding mutant-on-mutant murder as a result, it's jumping to conclusions. And frankly, I have little faith in Exaclibur's writer when it comes to fleshing out the Krakoa's laws.

Talking about death with our understanding of it applying to Krakoa doesn't real make sense. When they learn of Shaw treachery they will be pissed because he knowingly tried to kill a person who he knew probably couldn't come back. What is that called again? Oh yeah that is murder. Shaw wouldn't have killed Kitty if he thought she was going to come back it would have been pointless.

Maybe, maybe not. The RPs needs to have the death confirmed before being activated, seems to me Shaw relied on her body complete disappearance, more than on her resurrection being glitched, but that's just me.

Partying and Sleeping around isn't a part of Warrior Culture?

It's not what's defining what a warrior culture is, no.
Especially when it seems to be done on a 24/7 basis on that island.
Don't misconstrue my words this time please, ty.

I got stories I could tell but anyways Xavier has pushed a warrior culture from the beginning sending children into battle with Magneto. The X-men have a school where combat is part of curriculum. Mutants are always under attack and there is emphasis on learning how to use your powers to defend yourself

As I said, That's only true for the X-Men types and groups like the Brotherhood.
Lambda mutants, who dwarf said groups in numbers, aren't cut in that cloth.

. It is not a fraction of culture it is everyone.

It is, only a fraction of the 200k on that island went to training in fighting and combat with their powers, again the X-Men are an elite among mutants, regular mutants aren't warriors, and that goes for the Kraked as well for the time being.

And that is why the methodology of combat being a part of their ceremonies is an effective tool. They can try to accomplish more than one thing with Crucible it is about lowering the amount people who would try to kill themselves AND embrace warrior and survival mindset. Which also means the people who getting their powers are immediately useful to Krakoa. As I said I have a problem with execution of the Crucible but I understand some of thinking behind of it.

Sure, they can try to transition the Kraked from an indolent population of sheeps to an army of trained warriors, but it will take time and also highlight how, right now, their culture isn't warrior-like.

Lastly it is Krakoan not Kraked. Yes people do notice that you are making slur out of fictional minority name. It is not as clever as you think especially with the stances you are trying to take in discussions.

You can take it as a slur if you want, it's not one neither in spirit nor even factually since I've been using it from day 1 of HoX to refer to the inhabitants on Krakoa - but I really don't care about your judgement of me anyway.
It's irrelevant to this discussion we have.
I just find it pretty rich you accusing me of this though, since I'm pretty sure I saw you use the term flatscan in some of your past posts, which IS an actual slur in-universe, but I'm used now to that kind of... standard around here.
So, whatever.

[scourge]

"Read the books!"
We did.
"If you don't like it, why are you reading it?"

Uh huh...

Krakoa as a whole is flawed from the freaky living ground up.
Between letting genocidal super villains be in charge of anything to the whole cult-like way everyone acts, this entire relaunch is just one big slide into a crash and burn.
The whole thing needs a re-work to not be terrible.

[Outburstz]

"Read the books!"
We did.
"If you don't like it, why are you reading it?"

Uh huh...

Krakoa as a whole is flawed from the freaky living ground up.
Between letting genocidal super villains be in charge of anything to the whole cult-like way everyone acts, this entire relaunch is just one big slide into a crash and burn.
The whole thing needs a re-work to not be terrible.

The sooner you get out of the mindset that Krakoa has to be a nation of goodness and a nation that all mutants have a right to the better off you'll be.

Are there mutants doing shady stuff obviously but every nation has people doing shady stuff. Once they get caught they will get punished like Sabretooth.

[LordUltimus]

The sooner you get out of the mindset that Krakoa has to be a nation of goodness and a nation that all mutants have a right to the better off you'll be.

Are there mutants doing shady stuff obviously but every nation has people doing shady stuff. Once they get caught they will get punished like Sabretooth.

So X-Force is going to be punished?

[scourge]

The sooner you get out of the mindset that Krakoa has to be a nation of goodness and a nation that all mutants have a right to the better off you'll be.

Are there mutants doing shady stuff obviously but every nation has people doing shady stuff. Once they get caught they will get punished like Sabretooth.

The sooner Krakoa falls like Utopia, the better we'll all be.

[Outburstz]

So X-Force is going to be punished?

Why would hunting down anti mutant people who kid napped and experimented on mutants plus attacked Krakoa get them punished?

[SiegePerilous02]

Well I've just looked back to refresh my memory. Melody was not beaten to death. In the panel immediately before she is killed with the sword she is on her feet and has both hands held up in fists . Her left she disclosed and there is blood from heroes and from above her right eye . She is speaking clearly . In all honestly she looks only a little worse than a boxer at the end of a fight. She is then run through. She is not beaten to death .

Exactly, and she likely would not have been beaten to death. The option to tap out is given.
Apocalypse isn't going to kill anyone begging for mercy and then not resurrect them.

And I think some fans being more ok with making a joke of suicide by just having the powerless mutants off themselves and join a queue is a little disconcerting. Suicide ultimately doesn't solve anything and shouldn't be treated so casually. This, as loaded and bizarre as it is to us, is not treating Melody's decision lightly.

It does feel like Krakoa is increasingly unsustainable ethically and tonally for a lot of fans...

Hickman continues doubling down on the "cult" aspects

Once Moira makes herself known, Raven begins executing "the plan"... shit's gonna go down

Doug with the techno-organic virus , New Mutants and Shi'ar... Maddy Pryor appearing... a lot of potential harbingers of chaos

I know, and it's going to be great when it happens.

The sooner Krakoa falls like Utopia, the better we'll all be.

So we can go back to more by the numbers X-stories in the mansion riding on nostalgia and doing the same old crap?

No thanks.

[LordUltimus]

Why would hunting down anti mutant people who kid napped and experimented on mutants plus attacked Krakoa get them punished?

You said "shady behavior".

[Outburstz]

You said "shady behavior".

I meant someone like Shaw killing Kitty

[Nigel909]

"Read the books!"
We did.
"If you don't like it, why are you reading it?"

Uh huh...

Krakoa as a whole is flawed from the freaky living ground up.
Between letting genocidal super villains be in charge of anything to the whole cult-like way everyone acts, this entire relaunch is just one big slide into a crash and burn.
The whole thing needs a re-work to not be terrible.

"One big slide into a crash and burn " this seems unlikely . As far as I'm aware the sales figures are robust and the line seems to be generating more interest and discussion than ever before . I could refer you to the x men 7 thread or the much lower activity on the non xbook threads.

" Needs a 're work to not be terrible" Strongly disagree . Purely subjective here of course , but I'm enjoying this run immensely. I haven't looked forward so much to the next issue since the 60s. To me the shift in emphasis to a more science fiction theme is wonderfull.


I wonder if anyone else has noted a parallel with the works of Peter F Hamilton ? The Adamists and Edenists , the biological habitats the down loading of consciousness to the habitat. The Comonwealth saga with its version of back up and cloning. Anyone interested in a thread on this ?

[scourge]

So we can go back to more by the numbers X-stories in the mansion riding on nostalgia and doing the same old crap?

No thanks.

Oh for the love of...cut that crap out.
Just because a lot of us can't stand Krakoa doesn't mean we want to go back to exactly what was there before.

And more...
1. There's nothing wrong with the X-mansion. It just needs to be used properly.
2. Seeing a lot of the same old crap already in the form of the same characters that were already getting focus and attention hogging the spotlight more and more.

[People Of The Earth]

The sooner you get out of the mindset that Krakoa has to be a nation of goodness and a nation that all mutants have a right to the better off you'll be.

Are there mutants doing shady stuff obviously but every nation has people doing shady stuff. Once they get caught they will get punished like Sabretooth.

I'd be fine if the X-Men weren't spearheading said shady acts personally, or if they did but after rebranding themselves the Acolytes or whatever - with a set of new priorities and having ditched Xavier's dream, that'd make sense actually.
Most of the discussions happening stem from that, not from villains acting like villains on the island, or random mutants groveling over Magneto or embracing his supremacist ideas.
X-Men are supposed to be a cut above all that.

[SiegePerilous02]

Oh for the love of...cut that crap out.

Cut the crap that "we''d al be better the sooner Krakoa falls" despite the fact that this is the shot in the arm the line evidently needed.
And the most people have talked about it in a while.

Just because a lot of us can't stand Krakoa doesn't mean we want to go back to exactly what was there before.

But nobody can really put into words what they DO want, and the complaints that the X-Men aren't like they used to be or acting OOC or the mansion is gone all seem nostalgia-driven.
So they want things to go back to a semblance of what was before.

That's what comic book fans do. They constantly cry out that they want change, but are heavily resistant to it when it happens.

And more...
1. There's nothing wrong with the X-mansion. It just needs to be used properly.

It's been used properly for several decades. it's had more than enough time in the spotlight, and will likely get some again because everything is cyclical in comics.
In the meantime, let's try something else out.

2. Seeing a lot of the same old crap already in the form of the same characters that were already getting focus and attention hogging the spotlight more and more.

They'd be getting the focus no matter what.

[scourge]

Only some people think the line needed it. People would have been talking about anything that came out because its the first big return after the IvX/Age of X-man trashpile.
We will be better off when Hickman's quagmire ends.

People have put into words what they want. It just gets brushed off and ignored by people who go "Its already there" when its clearly not.

Going to disagree pretty hard there. Mansion hasn't been used properly in a long while. I'd say back in Wolverine and the X-men...terrible as that series was...was the last time it got used well. I don't mind having more settings than just that but saying its automatically bad to have a mansion or school is just wrong.

They don't need focus. They have more than enough. Let's try something else out as you said.

"They constantly cry out that they want change, but are heavily resistant to it when it happens."
The fault is with the ones making the comics. Change itself is not bad or good. What change is made matters.