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  1. #1036
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Who cares if that's humane or not. They're not a human society. They're a mutant society with no fear of death, the ability to heal traumas and all of the advantages that come from being surrounded by psychic beings and healing. The reasons behind the Crucible have been explained on paper. It's shocking to look at because we're not looking at what your everyday human would do.
    If I was someone who has lost a limb, or one of my senses, and I was not only told, but shown I could get it back by being temporarily killed, with what looks like proxy that I will come back whole, I might not ask too many more questions after seeing that it is true.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  2. #1037
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Who cares if that's humane or not. They're not a human society. They're a mutant society with no fear of death, the ability to heal traumas and all of the advantages that come from being surrounded by psychic beings and healing. The reasons behind the Crucible have been explained on paper. It's shocking to look at because we're not looking at what your everyday human would do.
    Mutants aren't aliens with their psychology, they're just people with super-powers who have their nation. They feel injury and death like we do, Melody felt that sword plunge into her and she literally died from the injuries inflincted on her. Mutants are not perfect people on Krakatoa, they're still have squabbles and are mentally hurt by things. The "reasons" are ridiculous and show the X-men aren't on their game mentally for discussions like this, post- Krakatoa. They're not into sacrificial rituals as a group. I'm intrigued by where this is going since it's not bad writing, it's good writing that has holes that are being set up to be exposed at a later date. The Crucible is a huge warning sign with blinking rights that the X-men are compromised somehow and even they're noticing it.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 03-21-2020 at 04:40 AM.

  3. #1038
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Mutants aren't aliens with their psychology, they're just people with super-powers who have their nation. They feel injury and death like we do, Melody felt that sword plunge into her and she literally died from the injuries inflincted on her. Mutants are not perfect people on Krakatoa, they're still have squabbles and are mentally hurt by things. The "reasons" are ridiculous and show the X-men aren't on their game mentally for discussions like this, post- Krakatoa. They're not into sacrificial rituals as a group. I'm intrigued by where this is going since it's not bad writing, it's good writing that has holes that are being set up to be exposed at a later date. The Crucible is a huge warning sign with blinking rights that the X-men are compromised somehow and even they're noticing it.
    She feels pain temporaly, during the Crucible. The pain and trauma that come with it can be washed away by telepaths and empaths, it's been stated on paper. It's a sort of rite of passage with fighting in it which results in death which, in this new society they're building, is something that they do not fear anymore.

  4. #1039
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Who cares if that's humane or not. They're not a human society. They're a mutant society with no fear of death, the ability to heal traumas and all of the advantages that come from being surrounded by psychic beings and healing. The reasons behind the Crucible have been explained on paper. It's shocking to look at because we're not looking at what your everyday human would do.
    They have forgotten very quickly the society where they were born, then.
    As far I can judge, this idea that the mutants are not human is very recent in the comics.
    It was only the fact of 'racist humans'… and that wasn't accepted by the mutants.

    Anyway, for the pro-Krakoa, the mutants are human when they lose their temper and not human when it suits them…

  5. #1040
    Spectacular Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    They have forgotten very quickly the society where they were born, then.
    As far I can judge, this idea that the mutants are not human is very recent in the comics.
    It was only the fact of 'racist humans'… and that wasn't accepted by the mutants.

    Anyway, for the pro-Krakoa, the mutants are human when they lose their temper and not human when it suits them…
    that's not true at all the term Homo superior has been around for decades

  6. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    She feels pain temporaly, during the Crucible. The pain and trauma that come with it can be washed away by telepaths and empaths, it's been stated on paper. It's a sort of rite of passage with fighting in it which results in death which, in this new society they're building, is something that they do not fear anymore.
    A "rite of passage" Apocalypse created, which is completely unnecessary to the process - as I explained. Your argument hinges on the Crucible being an intrinsic part of how mutants are reborn, when we both know that's not true. Had the X-men been in the right headspace they have told him to get out on that alone. The X-men as a group don't condone murdering people for rituals, but they're not the X-men anymore as we know them.

  7. #1042
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    that's not true at all the term Homo superior has been around for decades
    Is Neanderthal man not human? In the past, different kinds of humanity existed at the same time.

    In the Marvel universe, two 'humans' can create a mutant. So I wouldn't say that they are species that different.

    More, using a scientific term to base an ideology is rather deceitful in my opinion.

  8. #1043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    A "rite of passage" Apocalypse created, which is completely unnecessary to the process - as I explained. Your argument hinges on the Crucible being an intrinsic part of how mutants are reborn, when we both know that's not true. Had the X-men been in the right headspace they have told him to get out on that alone. The X-men as a group don't condone murdering people for rituals, but they're not the X-men anymore as we know them.
    I've had far too much gin this morning , but you're reference to "unnecessary " rites of passage made me think .
    Are any rites of passage necessary ? Even a 21 st birthday party or a retirement "do" ?
    Yet all societies have rites of passage .

    Time for my nap.

  9. #1044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel909 View Post
    I've had far too much gin this morning , but you're reference to "unnecessary " rites of passage made me think .
    Are any rites of passage necessary ? Even a 21 st birthday party or a retirement "do" ?
    Yet all societies have rites of passage
    .

    Time for my nap.
    Now you're getting it, and some rites of passage aren't as bad as others. Activities linked to cult like behaviour and who rely on killing the person fits into the problematic category for obvious reasons. Especially when the killing part can be done without pain or in front of an audience so an ancient self styled deity can kill people with immunity from the law. The Crucible is not the same as having birthday party or retiring.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 03-21-2020 at 07:30 AM.

  10. #1045
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    The idea is precisely that in a society without real death, how they see death will gradually evolve from how we see it.

    It's normal that is weird for us.

  11. #1046
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    The idea is precisely that in a society without real death, how they see death will gradually evolve from how we see it.

    It's normal that is weird for us.

    The mutants don't feel real to me, anymore.
    Well, that's true… they are not real, anyway.
    It doesn't help for the "suspension of disbelief", though…

  12. #1047
    Fantastic Member ETMike1988's Avatar
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    Too much demand for those special Krakoan medicines because of the Coronavirus!?

  13. #1048
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    Uriel and Eimin on Krakoa when
    That is an interesting question. If we're going to bring back EVERYONE, then logically that means EVERYONE.

  14. #1049
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    That is an interesting question. If we're going to bring back EVERYONE, then logically that means EVERYONE.
    It’s just a little unclear if Xavier would have a backup for them considering he was dead for their lifespan.

  15. #1050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    The idea is precisely that in a society without real death, how they see death will gradually evolve from how we see it.

    It's normal that is weird for us.
    You need to stop taking everything Kraktoa does at face value, even other characters living there have doubts on their society.

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