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  1. #31
    iMan 42s
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    Didn't think this episode was as good. I think it suffers from being a bit too action heavy for what it needs to do. While I have my issues with the voice acting, I think the action being a little too constant is what throws me off. The fight with the guards early on also didn't really seem like the punches and kicks connected, though this season does have a few sound hiccups here and there. One that comes to mind is in the prior episode where they forgot to add the filter for the clones and have one sound like he's too close to where he actually is. Here the punches and kicks either forgot sound in spots or its audio is too low so to me it didn't sound like it connected. The demolition droid also looked like it had little to no weight to it which I can't tell is fault of character design or animation taking a dip. Something that large even if it performs these moves should not seem as agile as the commando droid.

    It's a B- tier episode to me and probably might slip to C+ later on when viewed in full.
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  2. #32
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    The current Ashoka episodes are kind of meh but I kind of liked the obvious ROTJ homage with Anakin, Yularen and Ashoka, and of course it's interesting to see 1313 from the abandoned video game again.
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  3. #33
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    The current Ashoka episodes are kind of meh but I kind of liked the obvious ROTJ homage with Anakin, Yularen and Ashoka, and of course it's interesting to see 1313 from the abandoned video game again.
    I also like seeing the syndicate and Kesel.

    These girls have no idea what they're doing though .

  4. #34
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    The current Ashoka episodes are kind of meh but I kind of liked the obvious ROTJ homage with Anakin, Yularen and Ashoka, and of course it's interesting to see 1313 from the abandoned video game again.
    Yeah, I'm not a fan especially as the storyline is taking up so much time in a truncated season. I would have much rathered more Anakin or Obi-Wan

  5. #35
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    Yeah, I'm not a fan especially as the storyline is taking up so much time in a truncated season. I would have much rathered more Anakin or Obi-Wan
    I think in an ideal world they would have had a longer season to get to all the major unfinished arcs they had in mind.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think in an ideal world they would have had a longer season to get to all the major unfinished arcs they had in mind.
    Absolutely, I know I'd love to see more Clone Wars

  7. #37
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    Well, apparently Luminara is terrible at consoling people. No wonder Barris ended up like she did.

  8. #38
    Incredible Member Robotech Master's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, apparently Luminara is terrible at consoling people. No wonder Barris ended up like she did.
    She may as well have placed a hand on their shoulders, looked them in the eyes and said "get wrecked, kid."

  9. #39
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    The second Mando with a speaking part was credited as Ursa Wren, making her Sabine's mother. A nice, if completely unnecessary detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, apparently Luminara is terrible at consoling people. No wonder Barris ended up like she did.
    It's not just Luminara. The Jedi have become completely disconnected from the very people they are supposed to be protecting. The Order as an institution, at this point, very much deserves to fall from grace. Individual Jedi transcend the failings of the order as a whole, Yoda and Obi-Wan among them, but the entire dogmatic entity is teetering on a mound of it's own fetid, overgrown decadence. Palpatine merely exploits that in his plans.

  10. #40
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBG82 View Post
    The second Mando with a speaking part was credited as Ursa Wren, making her Sabine's mother. A nice, if completely unnecessary detail.
    Yeah, I wondered why they gave her a speaking role until I read the credits.
    It's not just Luminara. The Jedi have become completely disconnected from the very people they are supposed to be protecting. The Order as an institution, at this point, very much deserves to fall from grace. Individual Jedi transcend the failings of the order as a whole, Yoda and Obi-Wan among them, but the entire dogmatic entity is teetering on a mound of it's own fetid, overgrown decadence. Palpatine merely exploits that in his plans.
    As an entity, while flawed, I don't think The Order deserved to get Order 66'ed and slaughtered just to balance the scales out and try and bring them back-to-basics. But The Force moves in mysterious ways.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    As an entity, while flawed, I don't think The Order deserved to get Order 66'ed and slaughtered just to balance the scales out and try and bring them back-to-basics. But The Force moves in mysterious ways.
    Note that I said nothing about being slaughtered. They deserved to to fall from their favored pedestal, to have their rigidity and dogma challenged and found lacking. Nobody deserves what the Emperor did to them. These are not the same things.

    That said, Order 66 is absolutely the most literal possible way to "unlearn what you have learned." All of the bad habits, isolationist and superior rhetoric all gone. Could the Jedi have changed without it? We'll never know. If the Obi-Wan Kenobis won the day over the Mace Windus, maybe. If Yoda could have followed the train of thought he was on at the end of the war to it's conclusion and advocated for real, meaningful change? Perhaps. But the Order was on a path that wasn't leading anywhere good even without Palpatine's intervention.

  12. #42
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBG82 View Post
    Note that I said nothing about being slaughtered. They deserved to to fall from their favored pedestal, to have their rigidity and dogma challenged and found lacking. Nobody deserves what the Emperor did to them. These are not the same things.

    That said, Order 66 is absolutely the most literal possible way to "unlearn what you have learned." All of the bad habits, isolationist and superior rhetoric all gone. Could the Jedi have changed without it? We'll never know. If the Obi-Wan Kenobis won the day over the Mace Windus, maybe. If Yoda could have followed the train of thought he was on at the end of the war to it's conclusion and advocated for real, meaningful change? Perhaps. But the Order was on a path that wasn't leading anywhere good even without Palpatine's intervention.
    I think The Order, for all it's flaws, was still good and necessary in their own way even if they were missing the little important things and were getting too full of themselves to really realize their ideals. I think if the war had ended peacefully and given the chance they definitely could have changed. Maybe some more then others, but that's the way of things.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    We never really got an idea of how Luke trained his new order in the sequel trilogy either, I think (Although I guess the Kylo Ren miniseries might have some input?). Kind of curious if he stuck with the old rules; a lot of the current EU has him pretty much going on a decades-long journey looking for Jedi artifacts (and presumabely his adventure with Lando searching for Exegol/Ochii) before deciding to start the Jedi up again, so maybe he knew all the old rules. Or maybe even ghost Ben/Yoda/Anakin showed up to tell him how it all worked.

    In the "Legends" continuity Luke seemed OK with the attachments stuff but it's important to remember a lot of that was written well before the PT revealed the structure and rules of the Jedi (ditto with Tales of the Jedi, which had Nomi Sunrider married, starting a romance later on with Ulic, and of course having a daughter!). When they did come out, they brought in the Temple and council, but Luke still stuck with the it's ok to marry, train older students etc.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think The Order, for all it's flaws, was still good and necessary in their own way even if they were missing the little important things and were getting too full of themselves to really realize their ideals. I think if the war had ended peacefully and given the chance they definitely could have changed. Maybe some more then others, but that's the way of things.
    I think most of the individual Jedi were good people who tried to do the right thing when they could.

    But I absolutely disagree with you about the order as a whole. It isn't the little things they have lost, it's the huge, broad strokes of their purpose and who they are meant to be serving. They have been co-opted by the Republic bureaucracy and turned into a willing arm of the state. Instead of being an active force for good and justice among the populace in the name of that populace. Their place was to be challenging the Republic as often as aiding it.

    Even Qui-Gon Jinn, who is pretty much a paragon of the ideal Jedi, put the Order and his own beliefs ahead of doing what was right for Shmi Skywalker. His interest was only in Anakin and what he could mean.

    It isn't that the Jedi went dark. They certainly were not evil, nor had ill intent. But they lost the light. They had completely abandoned their ties to the common men and women of the galaxy, who should have rightly been their only charge. In their dogmatic, isolationist worldview they were an institution of the Republic rather than in service to the people of that Republic.


    And some of them realized it. Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan perhaps, though less viscerally. And Yoda by the war's end. That their failure wasn't winning or losing the war at all, but in letting things get so out of hand that the conflict even existed in the first place.

    The Jedi fell with the Republic because of how intertwined they had become. And then they rose again with the grassroots freedom movement against the Empire. That's thematic.

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBG82 View Post
    I think most of the individual Jedi were good people who tried to do the right thing when they could.

    But I absolutely disagree with you about the order as a whole. It isn't the little things they have lost, it's the huge, broad strokes of their purpose and who they are meant to be serving. They have been co-opted by the Republic bureaucracy and turned into a willing arm of the state. Instead of being an active force for good and justice among the populace in the name of that populace. Their place was to be challenging the Republic as often as aiding it.

    Even Qui-Gon Jinn, who is pretty much a paragon of the ideal Jedi, put the Order and his own beliefs ahead of doing what was right for Shmi Skywalker. His interest was only in Anakin and what he could mean.

    It isn't that the Jedi went dark. They certainly were not evil, nor had ill intent. But they lost the light. They had completely abandoned their ties to the common men and women of the galaxy, who should have rightly been their only charge. In their dogmatic, isolationist worldview they were an institution of the Republic rather than in service to the people of that Republic.


    And some of them realized it. Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan perhaps, though less viscerally. And Yoda by the war's end. That their failure wasn't winning or losing the war at all, but in letting things get so out of hand that the conflict even existed in the first place.

    The Jedi fell with the Republic because of how intertwined they had become. And then they rose again with the grassroots freedom movement against the Empire. That's thematic.
    They fell because of Sideous, Order 66, and Anakin going Vader.

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