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  1. #91
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    The Maul/Ahsoka duel was a huge step forward for lightsaber duels in animation. The movements had actual weight to them, which has long been an issue with both Clone Wars and Rebels. It makes me wish they'd used motion capture for all previous duels.

  2. #92
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    Order 66 is activated by voice command. It's why the order is given to the commanders as to inform the troops where to open fire should a trooper not hear it. Though despite this all clones will comply with the order should it be given and they're within range.

    It's not clear in canon how the order differentiates anybody but the order is specifically targeted at Jedi. They would outrank the clones and we know records of them exist. So the clones probably get the order to assassinate command and or would be compelled to do so because they're programmed from those records. Anakin did loose rank upon becoming Darth Vader and he might've been left out of the programming outright preventing him from getting shot at beyond the mistaken identity at the Jedi Temple when he chased down Jocasta Nu.

    In Ahsoka's case she'd be in charge outranking them in the same capacity despite being an advisor and it's entirely likely someone would have a record of her in the temple. After all we know that just because one runs or leaves doesn't make one exempt as Eeth Koth found out.
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  3. #93
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    The Maul/Ahsoka duel was a huge step forward for lightsaber duels in animation. The movements had actual weight to them, which has long been an issue with both Clone Wars and Rebels. It makes me wish they'd used motion capture for all previous duels.
    Read that they actually brought in Ray Park for the mocap.
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  4. #94
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    Funny thing about the Order in ROTS, you only hear Palpatine address Cody by name out of all the commanders. When it shows up in the starfighter and on Kashyyk for example, it's just the rest of the message.


    I guess Cody, being one of the more high-ranking clones just relayed it to all the others? Otherwise probably would've taken Palpatine a while to personally "phone" every Clone trooper leader.


    Little interesting thing (although maybe not a fact), I think there was a leak from an earlier script, possibly, that Obi-Wan would encounter his clone commander (possibly not Cody at that point) during his escape, and sadly kill him. These were from the same set of leaks that also said that Obi-Wan's actual name was "Ben" all along, so maybe it was a false rumor based on information already known (That the clones would turn on the Jedi). Still would've been interesting...
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  5. #95
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    Holy Shiznit.

    This is really, *really* good.

    ...And of course, since it’s me....

    I couldn’t help but feel this little mini-movie series of episodes feels like it highlights the advantages of having continuity of directorial vision over the inconsistent and contradictory madness of the ST.

    Like, over on this message board, there’s a thread I started about Kylo/Ben being a more clear cut case of a “Mary Sue” than Rey, so that conversation’s gone about the way you’d expect... but I feel this TCW storyline showcases one major difference between Rey and Ahsoka: unlike with Rey having to deal with a Kylo Ren/Ben Solo-besotted creators, you can actually tell that Ahsoka is Dave Filoni’s favorite character... and it actually helps the story.

    Seriously, comparing TLJ’s Act III to the whole climax of the second episode against Maul feels like a case study in how different a story can be when the writer has their sympathies and focus placed on the “right” character (i.e., the protagonist and most heavily featured character of the story.)

    The one brief conversation in the throne room has enough nuance, eloquence and story context around it so that it makes sense for Ahsoka to offer to help Maul against Sidious (since she’s discovered Sidious is the larger threat and has actual evidence Maul is genuinely opposed to him), for Maul to reach a hand out to her (since his argument actually has enough eloquence to it for the offer to have some pragmatic basis he could see Ahsoka accepting), and for her reaction to feel more genuine and focused on her (since she also has a more eloquent and clever response), with a fallout that clearly focuses more on her than on him (since we stay with her as she grapples with how he’s made her doubt Anakin’s righteousness and a feeling of unease tugs at her, while we know she’s at vernier stage for things going to hell next episode.)

    I mean, it’s weird, because I still probably like Maul better as a character, but this is how you use a popular villain to help get a hero over, instead of wallowing in empty obsession with a performance that doesn’t have to strain itself because you’re already enamored with the character, like what happened to Kylo.

    And cumulatively, taking in the stories around this episode and the stories around the ST... I feel like Maul’s now a definitely better, more complex, more sympathetic, and more interesting villain than Kylo ever was, while Ahsoka, even as much as I can tell she’s a creator’s favorite with a lot of Sue-sequel characteristics... is a better hero and protagonist than Rey and *especially* Ben... and honestly, feels more like she has a concrete connection to the Skywalkers than Rey does, and without tarnishing them in maddening fashion like Ben does.

    Ahsoka and Rey both have some Mary Sue elements... difference is, Ahsoka seems to demonstrate why those elements exist in the first place, and Rey seems to prove having the elements doesn’t mean a thing of the author is far more obsessed and biased towards another badly written character.
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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Funny thing about the Order in ROTS, you only hear Palpatine address Cody by name out of all the commanders. When it shows up in the starfighter and on Kashyyk for example, it's just the rest of the message.


    I guess Cody, being one of the more high-ranking clones just relayed it to all the others? Otherwise probably would've taken Palpatine a while to personally "phone" every Clone trooper leader.


    Little interesting thing (although maybe not a fact), I think there was a leak from an earlier script, possibly, that Obi-Wan would encounter his clone commander (possibly not Cody at that point) during his escape, and sadly kill him. These were from the same set of leaks that also said that Obi-Wan's actual name was "Ben" all along, so maybe it was a false rumor based on information already known (That the clones would turn on the Jedi). Still would've been interesting...
    It's possible that for the sheer amount of legions he probably phoned in a few personally but the rest are probably just recordings. That being said what's also just as likely that he'd make the call to a bunch of them but the rest of the Jedi could very well be at the temple. It'd make some sense since the base of operations is Coruscant for both the Republic and Jedi order so a lot of them would either be gearing up at the barracks or at the temple. We know the Coruscant Guard was involved so things definitely went down outside the Temple on Coruscant.
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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Funny thing about the Order in ROTS, you only hear Palpatine address Cody by name out of all the commanders. When it shows up in the starfighter and on Kashyyk for example, it's just the rest of the message.


    I guess Cody, being one of the more high-ranking clones just relayed it to all the others? Otherwise probably would've taken Palpatine a while to personally "phone" every Clone trooper leader.


    Little interesting thing (although maybe not a fact), I think there was a leak from an earlier script, possibly, that Obi-Wan would encounter his clone commander (possibly not Cody at that point) during his escape, and sadly kill him. These were from the same set of leaks that also said that Obi-Wan's actual name was "Ben" all along, so maybe it was a false rumor based on information already known (That the clones would turn on the Jedi). Still would've been interesting...
    I read a theory that Palpatine wanted to especially make sure Kenobi got taken out so he made a direct message to Cody while he used a generic message for the other Clones.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    It's possible that for the sheer amount of legions he probably phoned in a few personally but the rest are probably just recordings. That being said what's also just as likely that he'd make the call to a bunch of them but the rest of the Jedi could very well be at the temple. It'd make some sense since the base of operations is Coruscant for both the Republic and Jedi order so a lot of them would either be gearing up at the barracks or at the temple. We know the Coruscant Guard was involved so things definitely went down outside the Temple on Coruscant.
    I think Shaak Ti is at least confirmed canon-wise as being at the temple and stabbed in the back by Anakin (despite her deleted scene and of course other deaths) I think the Mortis or Yoda prophecy episodes confirm that.
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  9. #99
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    I am curious as to just how Maul thought he and Ahsoka could beat Sidious together when he already fought Sideous alongside Savage and got destroyed. Ahsoka is probably well above Savage's level at this point, but I don't see how she's good enough to make up the difference. At this point in the story it seems only Yoda, Mace Windu, and Anakin could beat Sidious, and then only if all 3 of them worked together. Maul and Ahsoka may both be in the top 10 most powerful force users at this point, but the gap between them and the top 4 is still too great. I think Maul is badly overestimating himself and possibly Ahsoka and that his plan is flawed from the start. Maybe he has some sort of special trap planned, but Ahsoka is right that there's no way he could beat Anakin in a duel, and seeking to take on both Anakin and Obi-Wan at once is just foolishness. He probably has some sort of death trap planned, but even so I can't see his plan doing anything more than delaying Anakin's fall by a few days assuming he could lure him there in the first place.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    I am curious as to just how Maul thought he and Ahsoka could beat Sidious together when he already fought Sideous alongside Savage and got destroyed. Ahsoka is probably well above Savage's level at this point, but I don't see how she's good enough to make up the difference. At this point in the story it seems only Yoda, Mace Windu, and Anakin could beat Sidious, and then only if all 3 of them worked together. Maul and Ahsoka may both be in the top 10 most powerful force users at this point, but the gap between them and the top 4 is still too great. I think Maul is badly overestimating himself and possibly Ahsoka and that his plan is flawed from the start. Maybe he has some sort of special trap planned, but Ahsoka is right that there's no way he could beat Anakin in a duel, and seeking to take on both Anakin and Obi-Wan at once is just foolishness. He probably has some sort of death trap planned, but even so I can't see his plan doing anything more than delaying Anakin's fall by a few days assuming he could lure him there in the first place.
    Yeah, he didn't think he could even take on Vader alone in Rebels, so I think he was greatly underestimating the challenge Anakin would give had he gotten both Anakin and Obi-Wan on Mandalore.

    Maybe if he had gotten Ahsoka on his side and used her to turn Anakin against Sidius, but I don't think he thought of that.

  11. #101
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    I think Maul’s also just showing how desperate and afraid he is; he’s scrambling to do anything he can to try and frustrate Sidious’s grand design, damn the details, and in his desperation is making a lot of assumptions that would normally halt his plans through their inadequacies, but pushing on regardless because everything’s about to catch fire across the Galaxy.

    It’s also why he so bluntly abandons the SuperCommandos and Saxon without even a real excuse. When his last desperate gambit has failed with Ahsoka, getting out into the wider Galaxy and away from a known location becomes paramount, even at the expense of extremely valuable assets.
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  12. #102
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    Wonder if we'll ever get the story of how he got stuck on Malachor. Could've been something Solo 2 might've covered.
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  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    I am curious as to just how Maul thought he and Ahsoka could beat Sidious together when he already fought Sideous alongside Savage and got destroyed. Ahsoka is probably well above Savage's level at this point, but I don't see how she's good enough to make up the difference. At this point in the story it seems only Yoda, Mace Windu, and Anakin could beat Sidious, and then only if all 3 of them worked together. Maul and Ahsoka may both be in the top 10 most powerful force users at this point, but the gap between them and the top 4 is still too great. I think Maul is badly overestimating himself and possibly Ahsoka and that his plan is flawed from the start. Maybe he has some sort of special trap planned, but Ahsoka is right that there's no way he could beat Anakin in a duel, and seeking to take on both Anakin and Obi-Wan at once is just foolishness. He probably has some sort of death trap planned, but even so I can't see his plan doing anything more than delaying Anakin's fall by a few days assuming he could lure him there in the first place.
    I am thinking maybe he thought he and his brother failed since they both drew on the dark side of the force. Maybe his thinking was if he teamed up with Jedi the combo of a lightside and darkside users working together would be the edge they needed to surprise Palpatine. I am sure whatever Maul had planned he had learned from his past and was not going in head on and instead was going for more and assasination plan.

  14. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    I am curious as to just how Maul thought he and Ahsoka could beat Sidious together when he already fought Sideous alongside Savage and got destroyed.
    If Maul really wanted Sidious destroyed - he would have gone to the Jedi Temple and told the Jedi. Or sent them some anonymous message.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Maul and Ahsoka may both be in the top 10 most powerful force users at this point,
    Considered that Ahsoka is a mere Padawan, I doubt that she is even in the top 100. She shouldnt have been able to defeat Maul, but since she has strong Mary Sue Elements - less than Rey but still enough - she did anyway….

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialbeyonder View Post
    If Maul really wanted Sidious destroyed - he would have gone to the Jedi Temple and told the Jedi. Or sent them some anonymous message.

    Considered that Ahsoka is a mere Padawan, I doubt that she is even in the top 100. She shouldnt have been able to defeat Maul, but since she has strong Mary Sue Elements - less than Rey but still enough - she did anyway….

    About Maul I agree. About Ahsoka I don't agree. Obi Wan was still a padawan when he cut Maul in half and Luke was still a padawan with basically just a few weeks of training when he defeated Darth Vader. Yoda outright stated Luke could not be considered a full-fledged Jedi until after he fought Vader again. There's nothing new about someone who has not been given the rank of knight or master by the council being as powerful or more powerful than others who have been given those ranks.

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