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  1. #241
    Incredible Member Ulysses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    More like outdated and alwas repetitive stories, but I see your point.
    That’s what a myth is. It’s indication that they are good. It’s the reason we keep telling them over and over. We wouldn’t keep exploring the same archetypes if we weren’t finding meaning in them. This is storytelling 101.
    “To the future or to the past. To a time when thought is free, when men are different from one another and do not live alone - to a time when truth exists and what is done cannot be undone: from the age of uniformity, from the age of solitude, from the age of Big Brother, from the age of doublethink - greetings!" - Winston Smith

  2. #242

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    More like outdated and alwas repetitive stories, but I see your point.
    Really? Okay, so tell me. What has happened in the past few years at DC that has been ground-shaking and at the same time received much critical acclaim?? A lot of what has come out of DC for the past several years has been either rehashing old things that worked in the past (i.e. another Batman story from Frank Miller, Before Watchmen, etc.) or just a series of controversial moves that fans have not taken to. For example, the treatment of fan-favorite characters like Wally West, the whole "Ric Grayson" situation, the mess that they've made of continuity, behind-the-scenes fighting (of which Didio was a key contributor), etc.

    You keep deriding "nostalgia" and classic characters as "outdated" and "repetitive", but the stuff that's been coming out of DC and the directions DC has taken since 2011 are not working!! There was a brief glimmer of hope with Rebirth, but even that was snuffed out because of influence from Didio. We need to bring back the creative environment that allowed DC to fire on all cylinders like it did in the 80s and 90s: one that fostered actual experimentation and not simply the appearance of experimentation. That is not what we had with Didio.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 02-22-2020 at 01:02 AM.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses View Post
    That’s what a myth is. It’s indication that they are good. It’s the reason we keep telling them over and over. We wouldn’t keep exploring the same archetypes if we weren’t finding meaning in them. This is storytelling 101.
    Technically true, however, it's how they're told that matters. Didio's creativity is controversial to say the least, and lets his prejudices against characters (Dick Grayson, Cassandra Cain) affect how well they are told.

  5. #245
    Mighty Member failo.legendkiller's Avatar
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    18 years of DC comics free fall.
    I’m hopeful and afraid at the same time. who’ll come next? It will be happiness or bad to worse?
    Anyway we can hope for awhile.

  6. #246
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    My vote would go for Karen Berger.
    Last edited by Lee Stone; 02-22-2020 at 01:41 AM.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  7. #247
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Really? Okay, so tell me. What has happened in the past few years at DC that has been ground-shaking and at the same time received much critical acclaim?? A lot of what has come out of DC for the past several years has been either rehashing old things that worked in the past (i.e. another Batman story from Frank Miller, Before Watchmen, etc.) or just a series of controversial moves that fans have not taken to. For example, the treatment of fan-favorite characters like Wally West, the whole "Ric Grayson" situation, the mess that they've made of continuity, behind-the-scenes fighting (of which Didio was a key contributor), etc.

    You keep deriding "nostalgia" and classic characters as "outdated" and "repetitive", but the stuff that's been coming out of DC and the directions DC has taken since 2011 are not working!! There was a brief glimmer of hope with Rebirth, but even that was snuffed out because of influence from Didio. We need to bring back the creative environment that allowed DC to fire on all cylinders like it did in the 80s and 90s: one that fostered actual experimentation and not simply the appearance of experimentation. That is not what we had with Didio.
    Yeah! I would rather they don't follow the no multiverse dumb 80s and 90s rule . I don't want to be stuck with a versions of character i don't like. Personally, would love it if they explore metaverse.

  8. #248
    Fantastic Member Potanical Pardon's Avatar
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    Oh fuuuuck.

    Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

    FINALLY.

    This is the best news.

  9. #249
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Yeah! I would rather they don't follow the no multiverse dumb 80s and 90s rule . I don't want to be stuck with a versions of character i don't like. Personally, would love it if they explore metaverse.
    Ever since Infinite Crisis, the DC Universe has been in a weird flux of not sure if it wants to be a multiverse or not.
    One month it is, one month it's not.
    We've had Superboy Prime super-punching, Flashpoint, Convergence, Multiversity, Doomsday Clock...
    And we're still at the starting line, spinning tires.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  10. #250
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Ever since Infinite Crisis, the DC Universe has been in a weird flux of not sure if it wants to be a multiverse or not.
    One month it is, one month it's not.
    We've had Superboy Prime super-punching, Flashpoint, Convergence, Multiversity, Doomsday Clock...
    And we're still at the starting line, spinning tires.
    Then don't be in flux. Just create a good road map. Encorporate all the eras. Johns did decent in doomsday clock. I want the multiverse. For instance, if i don't particularly care for barry allen flash or postcrisis superman? Why should i be stuck with them? I want an orphan vigilante strongman superman or a kal el superman(not clark) who is rough around the edges and isn't much of saint or someone who grew into becoming the flash like wally. I can't get that if i am stuck with no-multiverse. They practically erased prior versions of characters with crisis on infinite earths. Its was darn shame.

  11. #251
    Fantastic Member Potanical Pardon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Ever since Infinite Crisis, the DC Universe has been in a weird flux of not sure if it wants to be a multiverse or not.
    One month it is, one month it's not.
    We've had Superboy Prime super-punching, Flashpoint, Convergence, Multiversity, Doomsday Clock...
    And we're still at the starting line, spinning tires.
    It alllll started around 2003:

    Hawkman title turning into Hawkgirl title with drastically different tone and direction.
    YJ and Titans Graduation Day to suddenly cancel and have Outsiders and Teen Titans.
    Swapping Winnick and whoever it was that was on Green Arrow so both GL and GA would tank.
    JSA getting weaker. JLA getting watered down and starting to look like Superfriends.
    Infinity Crisis yes. But all the build up to it came first.
    Identity Crisis.
    His Beast Boy reversion.
    Constant retelling of different characters' origin stories for no reason and frequently.

    There was a lot of build-up before Infinity Crisis to clear the tables for Mr. Nobody was asking for an OMAC title.

    I still stand by my assertion that DC was finally fixed from LSOH, Hawkpeople, Power Girl, and any other dangling continuity mess-ups and was moving forward. All Didio accomplished was effing up EVERY DC property that ever existed.




    Now. Is Mark Waid still putzing around with that print of his? Can someone please go knock on his door and beg him to take over and fix everything?
    Last edited by Potanical Pardon; 02-22-2020 at 02:14 AM.

  12. #252
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Can't say as I'm surprised by this news in the slightest. Despite his reported ability to maneuver corporate politics, Didio has escaped being fired a couple times already. Sooner or later, this was bound to happen.

    Like with Dick Giordano, Paul Levitz and Mike Carlin, I think it will take a couple years to full appreciate and understand Didio's tenure as DC's head honcho. From my perspective, there have been incredible highs that are amongst my favorite periods as a comic fan and absolute lows in which I completely stopped following comics altogether.

    My one hope is that whomever takes over, since it seems unlikely that Jim Lee actually wants to take over the whole shebang, is as genuine in their enthusiasm and appreciation for comics and comics creators as Didio was. If we get some corporate toady, I don't think anyone is going to be happy.

  13. #253
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    I think the fan press and DC's PR has a distorting effect on your perceptions on the role of the publisher. Didio may have been more front and center. But for example his predecessor Paul Levitz was not and he was more bts when he was both president and publisher of DC. Similarly Buckley over at Marvel. Jim Lee doesn't necessary have to follow in Dan Didio's model as publisher.
    Exactly. From what I can tell, DiDio loved big shows, drama, and being in the spotlight. You certainly can find successful publishers like that, but it's certainly not a requirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I kinda think going subscription model may have been a bad long-term decision in hind-sight. I don't know if they'd have survived otherwise, but it kept comics from being really easily accessed by every kid in the nation (US). Those are the ones that almost anyone knows.
    Yep. The direct market was a lifeboat, but now it's a straitjacket. I think DiDio the salesman and businessman understood this, but that DiDio the creative visionary couldn't see past the type of stories that thrived within the straitjacket. A different audience would require not only different stories, different ways of telling them, and different storytellers.

    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Okay... What I'm going to say here is not gonna sound like something I usually do (mostly).

    Dan Didio did a lot of good things. He kept DC afloat at times when DC had no business being afloat. Under his tenure some of my fav characters were created.

    I interviewed him once, face to face, and I could say that he was really, really passionate about what he was doing, at least.

    I do not agree with his vision of the DCU. I can't say he will be missed, as his biases really screwed things up for me.

    But he did his best, and for that, he gets my respect.
    Wise words. One thing I want to embellish upon: "his vision of the DCU".

    It's clear DiDio was highly passionate about and had a vision of the DCU. But what about DC as a company, and the people who work for them?

    (On editors leaving DC)
    Quote Originally Posted by Waterfall View Post
    Pretty sure there was a thread about it. Something something changing tables?
    You might be thinking about Burbankology.

    I think this move was rather sudden on WB's/AT&T's part, and a lot will depend on how they will act. Because my impression is that DC has been rather poorly managed (and here I'm talking stuff like office and personnel politics) for quite a while, and this is leaving a huge void ready to be filled with drama and infighting unless a firm, or at least steady hand, appears really soon. Maybe not in the form of a new sheriff in town, but clear messages and policies that are followed.

    This tweet from Jennifer de Guzman struck me as being really true, and worth thinking about:

    A lot of fans seem to be wondering what Dan DiDio’s departure from DC means for the characters; I’m more interested in knowing what it means for women who work or would like to work at the DC office.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  14. #254
    Fantastic Member The_Lurk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Exactly. From what I can tell, DiDio loved big shows, drama, and being in the spotlight. You certainly can find successful publishers like that, but it's certainly not a requirement.



    Yep. The direct market was a lifeboat, but now it's a straitjacket. I think DiDio the salesman and businessman understood this, but that DiDio the creative visionary couldn't see past the type of stories that thrived within the straitjacket. A different audience would require not only different stories, different ways of telling them, and different storytellers.



    Wise words. One thing I want to embellish upon: "his vision of the DCU".

    It's clear DiDio was highly passionate about and had a vision of the DCU. But what about DC as a company, and the people who work for them?

    (On editors leaving DC)


    You might be thinking about Burbankology.

    I think this move was rather sudden on WB's/AT&T's part, and a lot will depend on how they will act. Because my impression is that DC has been rather poorly managed (and here I'm talking stuff like office and personnel politics) for quite a while, and this is leaving a huge void ready to be filled with drama and infighting unless a firm, or at least steady hand, appears really soon. Maybe not in the form of a new sheriff in town, but clear messages and policies that are followed.

    This tweet from Jennifer de Guzman struck me as being really true, and worth thinking about:
    Wasn't a woman the DC boss for quite some time? I would not worry. Or do they have a recent history?

  15. #255
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lurk View Post
    Wasn't a woman the DC boss for quite some time? I would not worry. Or do they have a recent history?
    Yeah, I don't see how Didio being let go has any relevance for women working at DC.
    If they got the chops, they can get the work.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

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