How do you rate Dan Didio's tenure at DC Comics?

[Pinsir]

If I were to go by your signature and some of your comments, I'd come to the conclusion you didn't like Wonder Woman, period.

What? Why would I bother to read every Wonder Woman comic ever published if I didn't like Wonder Woman? I just tend not to like the Perez style stuff.

[Pinsir]

And if we're looking at things from a creative standpoint at DC, then no, New 52 was definitely NOT successful. Creators ran for the hills during that era and it alienated a lot of people from working at DC. And that's not even going into how characters like the Teen Titans, Static, the (grown) Titans, Green Arrow, the Birds of Prey, Superman, Cassandra Cain, Wally West, Stephanie Brown, Tim Drake, Lady Shiva, etc. were either given new directions that were not well-received by the fanbase at best or erased from existence at worst. It was a hard time to be a DC fan indeed.

I mean, I liked Morrison's Superman and I believe Green Arrow did get a good run eventually.

I am noticing a pattern though where a lot of anti-New 52 fans claim the New 52 was a TOTAL FAILURE and a lot of fans of the New 52 see that its success was more nuanced than that. Yes, certain character benefited more than others and if you were a fan of the characters that lucked out, yeah that sucks. But even if the New 52 didn't happen, certain characters would have still been favoured over others, that's just how comics work. I like Giganta, but...the New 52 didn't have a good Giganta story and I don't think one has been told in like 70 years.

[leo619]

Ah yes batman and the outsider, that 1960s franchise still chugging along 60 years later.

Youre the one coming on here giving it licks how youre all about poc writers and new fiction but yet choose to ignore both new fiction and black writer doing new fiction at DC whilst 3/4s of yr DC pull list is white dudes and all yr pull list is 60 year old or more franchises.

But yes you make sure to keep that black woman off yr pull list at DC and give your money to good old Geoff and that 80 year old white character instead.

Oh do make sure to tell everyone how progressive you are and how you really support new work while you do it though. Thats just the icing on the cake.

Agents have already respond to your statement, so I don't even need to go over how asinine this comment is. And I already addressed why most of the books I purchase are from different companies. If you have a problem with how I support books and attempt to use fake gotcha moments, that's your problem, not mine.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I mean, I liked Morrison's Superman and I believe Green Arrow did get a good run eventually.

The main Superman title was an utter mess, partly because Morrison never consulted Perez about what he was doing. And it took years for Green Arrow to get a good run, which of course was short******d because, shocker, typical New 52-era behind-the-scenes mismanagement.

I am noticing a pattern though where a lot of anti-New 52 fans claim the New 52 was a TOTAL FAILURE and a lot of fans of the New 52 see that its success was more nuanced than that. Yes, certain character benefited more than others and if you were a fan of the characters that lucked out, yeah that sucks. But even if the New 52 didn't happen, certain characters would have still been favoured over others, that's just how comics work. I like Giganta, but...the New 52 didn't have a good Giganta story and I don't think one has been told in like 70 years.

Yeah, there's a difference between being "unfavored" and being straight up erased from existence. Not to mention all of the other issues that surrounded the New 52: the confused and nonsensical state of continuity and the timeline; the constant clashes between editorial and creative talent; a large number of bad stories; etc.

And the pattern that I've noticed around New 52 fans is that they cling to a handful of "victories" from the New 52 era to justify all of the bad. And when confronted with the bad, they either ignore it or take evidence out of context to try and spin the New 52 as having a net positive impact. New 52 fans' position is basically this: "it was aaaallll worth it because of these few things that I really liked, despite all the widespread confusion and controversial choices made that many, many more people hated."

Were there a few gems during the New 52? Yeah, definitely. But they didn't make up for all of the problems that also accompanied the New 52.

[iron chimp]

Leo youre the one wihj the problem with other peoples buying habits not me. Youre the one attaching some agenda to yours and others reading. Youre the one stereotyping and classifying people.

But when it comes down to it yr just you got nothing. Good luck with those pantone swops of the same old stories whilst pretending youre supporting new work. Just another chump who can be bought off with a palette swop whilst pretending yr hip. You got mugged by disney.

You couldnt even publish a whole chunk of books in an lcs in 1980s today. Way tougher, said more, more diverse range of publishers, subject matter, sexuality. All you got was a resprayed story and a toy. Youd have got clowned out an lcs in the 80s with that pull list while telling store owner you were some progressive force

[Vampire Savior]

Leo youre the one wihj the problem with other peoples buying habits not me. Youre the one attaching some agenda to yours and others reading. Youre the one stereotyping and classifying people.

But when it comes down to it yr just you got nothing. Good luck with those pantone swops of the same old stories whilst pretending youre supporting new work. Just another chump who can be bought off with a palette swop whilst pretending yr hip. You got mugged by disney.

Basically. We got a guy acting like he's all progressive, he's the "new" type of fan, he's advocating for diversity...but then he says his favorite character is...wait for it...

...wait for it...

...wait for it...

A BLACK MAN IN A WHITE MAN'S CLOTHES WITH A WHITE MAN'S NAME!!!

[SiegePerilous02]

The main Superman title was an utter mess, partly because Morrison never consulted Perez about what he was doing. And it took years for Green Arrow to get a good run, which of course was short******d because, shocker, typical New 52-era behind-the-scenes mismanagement.

Pinsir said they liked Morrison's Action run by itself. So did many people, myself included.

Yeah, what Perez had to deal with sucked. But it has f*** all to do with anything when you're reading a self contained run by itself. The final results of Perez's run don't drag down the other good stories surrounding it that largely have nothing to do with it.

And yeah, the New 52 overall for Superman was pretty directionless and sucked aside from one good run. But IMO so has Rebirth, and if we're being honest, so had pre-Flashpoint for a while. DC in general has just been putting out mediocre Superman comics (at least across the main two titles) for a long ass time, regardless of what era we're looking at. His best story in the 21st century being a self contained 12 parter outside the main canon says it all. or stuff like Smashes the Klan.

[skyvolt2000]

Were there a few gems during the New 52? Yeah, definitely. But they didn't make up for all of the problems that also accompanied the New 52.

THIS....

All worth it because a few thing someone liked doesn't excuse or make for all the damage to everyone else. That is why sales later on got bad.

In a 9 (2011-2020) year span Batwing is the only black hero at Dc with over 40 solo issues. If you go by the name only. 18 for David & Luke each. Cyborg is next at 32 and his got axed in the middle of a story.

Marvel
Miles, Black Panther & Moon Girl have more. Falcon came close and is short about 4 issues (give or take). Riri is at 23.
Image
Malcolm Dragon (who is part black) will hit 60 this year

So what is everyone else doing that DC is not?

[Sacred Knight]

For my money there were actually four really good N52 Superman runs. Morrison on Action, Pak on Action, Pak on Batman/Superman and Soule on SM/WW. IOW, there was only one that had consistent problems and that was the main Superman title. DCYou ended up screwing up them all by the time it was all winding down of course, but for the most part, Superman was pretty damn good for that era, even with the mismanagement. I wish they'd done better by Perez, as I think he was leading to some interesting stuff, and it not working out ended up snowballing and seemingly cursed the title for the entire era, but alas. Overall though it did what it was supposed to, reboot the character and made him young again. Eventually they wanted the older version back. And we move on. For me not nearly for the better in regards to Supes but it is (though at this point, if a pre-FP based Superman was all I could get I would take Rebirth over Bendis in light of the direction he eventually took) but what it is by now.

[leo619]

Why don't you actually look it up and see for yourself...

Um, 1st, there's not 100's of sites dedicated to comic books in general, let alone hundreds of sites dedicated to talking about how new 52 was a failure. Again, hyperbole.

But, again, the core of what the New 52 was, a reboot, was not necessary to bring in more diverse writers. That's the point. And it seemingly didn't even deliver on that promise because, unfortunately, there aren't many writers of color working at DC today and the ones that are aren't working on high-profile projects. The only writer of color I can think of who's had at least some high-profile projects at DC in the past few years has been Christopher Priest and he came back to DC with Rebirth.

I'm also gonna refer you to skyvolt2000's post.

And I'll just repost my quote as a response.

Except no where did I state that the reboot was required in order for diverse writers to enter the fray, I stated New 52 started the foundation of bringing POC writers into the fold
, and that is in fact true, as before New 52, there were no POC writers writing for DC.

And the criteria wasn't to bring new POC writers into high profile books, though that did happen with both Christopher Priest and Geng, but to finally have POC writers in comics to begin with, when before New 52, neither Marvel nor DC had POC writers. Now, both companies have both, and new 52 started that foundation.

Except DC themselves have spent the last few years trying to write away the reboot and even went so far as to pin it on Dr. Manhattan. So, that would suggest that even DC admits rebooting was not a good idea.

Nope, DC Rebirth was their attempt to catering back to the classic fans, because of the classic fans outrage towards the new 52. But since they now realize the classic fans aren't going to save DC comics as their sales continue to plunder, we're now getting 5g coming up. So as stated before, in the end of the day, some people liked all of it, some people liked some of it, and some people dislike it.

That data was from 2017, not 2010. And, again, it just seems you can't back it up.

And again, I don't care if you don't think I can back it up, I know what I saw and I'm sticking with those statistics, and the DC Nielsan poll that indicated 92% of males happened in 2012, not in 2017.

https://www.themarysue.com/dc-nielsen-survey-results/

Nice attempt at an ad hominem attack. It only shows that you cannot back up what you're saying, but whatever. Also, its "then" not "than." Anyway, speaking as an underrepresented minority myself, I might be actually have a clue about diversity.

Fact: DC Comics had a more diverse array of characters before Flashpoint than they did afterwards. Let's take a look at a few examples, shall we?

1. Kimiyo Hoshi aka Dr. Light, one of the few semi-prominent Asian superheroines in comics, went from well being a superheroine before Flashpoint to literally appearing in only one panel as the wife of Dr. Arthur Light, a white man who was the villainous Dr. Light. So, its funny that you cite "background characters" when she became a literal background character because of the New 52.

2. Anissa and Jennifer Pierce, the daughters of Black Lightning, both of whom were superheroes in their own right, with Anissa on the Outsiders and Jennifer on the JSA, were erased by Flashpoint. It's also notable that not only was Anissa an example of a strong black female character, but she was also in a same-sex relationship with Grace Choi, her biracial Amazon teammate on the Outsiders.

3. Stephanie Brown, the only female Robin, was erased by Flashpoint

4. Cassandra Cain, not only the only non-white Batgirl, but also the first Batgirl to headline her own solo series, was erased.

5. Renee Montoya, who had become the Question following the events of 52, had that wiped from her history and barely made any appearances in the New 52.

6. Bumblebee and Mal Duncan, who were classic members of the Titans, were wiped from existence.


4. Batwoman faced obstacles in her relationship with Maggie Sawyer because of the edict that "heroes can't get married because their lives can never be happy," which almost led to the creative team quitting the book.

Nice attempt at trying to incorrectly use psychological definitions, but the point still stands. And you can't claim "FACT" when it's not a fact. For the characters that were missing during, you had characters added


Val Zod: Earth 2 Superman

Aquawoman: Earth 2 Aquawoman

Dr. Fate:

Green Lantern

Wally West

We Are Robin

Mr. Terrific

Static Shock

Voodoo

Cyborg

The Shazam Family

Bunker

and much more.

Now no one is debating that some of these properties were horribly handled. But to say the DC Universe was less diverse after New 52 was straight false. There wasn't a single POC solo book going forward from either Marvel or DC until New 52 came into place.

What's funny is that two of the articles that you provide seem hesitant to even give the New 52 its props. One of them literally also lists what the New 52 got wrong and the other one reads "DC New 52 Sales – So Far, So Good?" Its also literally from one month after the relaunch and the sales soon started to go down.

And what's funny is that two of your links are articles from the exact same site. None of the sites presented had problems giving them their props, they, like many others including myself, go on to indicate the strengths that New 52 had as well as their weaknesses. And that's what you can't seem to understand. Very few people here, from what I've seen, has said the New 52 is flawless. The majority of people here will agree that much of the execution of New 52 was flawed. BUT, many, including myself, will agree there were still some great books that came from the era as well as many of the ideas presented in early stages were great ideas. It's just the execution from those ideas that caused them problems. And sales did not start to go down after one month, it took years for new 52 sales to start dropping, and that's because marvel release their nuclear weapon of the star wars franchise, which was unstoppable at that time. Before that, New 52 was the first time in a long time where DC was selling very well in comparison to Marvel. The last time they had such a competitive ratio was the blackest night events I believe.

So, is One Piece the franchise that has at least 8 blockbuster films to its name, some of which have pulled in billions at the box office and even gone on to win Academy Awards? Is Luffy the guy who is universally recognized around the globe? As I said, Batman has starred in films that have earned billions worldwide. The Dark Knight, DKR, and the Joker each earned over $1 billion on their own. The most that a One Piece film has earned at the box office is about $10 million if that. Batman has also had numerous TV shows and animated films to his name. One Piece has...one. I could ask my grandmother who Batman is and she'd be able to tell me. I doubt even my sister could tell me who Monkey D. Luffy is.

I highly doubt your grandma watches anime (though props to her if she does), but that doesn't change the fact that One Piece in less than 7 years is about to sell more comic book copies than Batman entire 70+ year history. And is expected to become the number one selling comic book series of all time in less than 3 years. Though it does have major competition now, with demon slayer being the first manga to beat one piece in 2019 for sales. That series sold 12 million books in one year, almost 10 times the amount as batman. And guess what? This book was literally started 3 years ago. So as stated before, decades of lore is not necessary for a story to be good. If the writer has his proper writing chops, he can write a good story.

So, yeah, its no contest. Batman has a significantly more prominent cultural impact than One Piece. Anyone who says otherwise is just lying to themselves.

Again, it doesn't. As I stated before, it may have more impact in certain countries, but One piece would have more cultural impact in other countries. To say Batman has more cultural impact than batman just speaks to American narcissism. You only need to go to places like Japan or Korea to see how much more cultural impact One Piece has over Batman.

Between the first and the second issue of Walker's run on Cyborg, the book already lost about half its audience. And by its seventh issue, it had already sunk to below 19,000 copies a month. Obviously, not everyone was as jazzed about the run as you think they were. Again, I wonder why that is...

Sorry, but Cyborg is just one of those characters who does not work as a solo hero. He's a Titan, through and through.

I never said everyone who read the book absolutely loved the book, I stated the book under walker was successful, because it was. The book was never canceled under his run, and it was evident during that time digital sales were a stronger component for him just like for Ms.Marvel, who has a stronger following in the digital area versus the physical copies. But in the end, Walker's run was successful, as it was selling enough to keep the series going for readers to follow, and this was after they took away their high profile artist after like freaking 4 issues. (which once again reflects to my problem with DC changing out writers/artists regularly.)

[leo619]

Leo youre the one wihj the problem with other peoples buying habits not me. Youre the one attaching some agenda to yours and others reading. Youre the one stereotyping and classifying people.

Please point out where I have a problem with people's buying habits. Just because there's clear categories that illustrate different schools of readers doesn't mean I have a problem with certain schools. On the other hand, you've been trying to paint a false narrative on me from the beginning. Must mean I struck a nerve because I pointed out some traits for some classic readers like yourself, Zeeway, Vampire_Savior and more like to tell new readers that the things they enjoy are horrible or wrong . Again, your problem, not mine.

But when it comes down to it yr just you got nothing. Good luck with those pantone swops of the same old stories whilst pretending youre supporting new work. Just another chump who can be bought off with a palette swop whilst pretending yr hip. You got mugged by disney.

And thank you for proving my point exactly. Nothing more needs to be said.

[leo619]

Basically. We got a guy acting like he's all progressive, he's the "new" type of fan, he's advocating for diversity...but then he says his favorite character is...wait for it...

...wait for it...

...wait for it...

A BLACK MAN IN A WHITE MAN'S CLOTHES WITH A WHITE MAN'S NAME!!!

LOL spoken like someone who clearly don't understand why Into The Spider-Verse brought in the first Animated Academy Award for Sony's, beating out Disney's The Incredibles. Not my problem if you can't understand the appeal of anyone can be behind the mask.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Pinsir said they liked Morrison's Action run by itself. So did many people, myself included.

Yeah, what Perez had to deal with sucked. But it has f*** all to do with anything when you're reading a self contained run by itself. The final results of Perez's run don't drag down the other good stories surrounding it that largely have nothing to do with it.

And yeah, the New 52 overall for Superman was pretty directionless and sucked aside from one good run. But IMO so has Rebirth, and if we're being honest, so had pre-Flashpoint for a while. DC in general has just been putting out mediocre Superman comics (at least across the main two titles) for a long ass time, regardless of what era we're looking at. His best story in the 21st century being a self contained 12 parter outside the main canon says it all. or stuff like Smashes the Klan.

In my original post, I mentioned Superman himself as a character who suffered because of the New 52. I wasn't talking at all about Morrison's Action run, even though I personally find that run to be incredibly overrated. And I still find that to be true. Superman did suffer because of the New 52, and his titles during that era were pretty bad with the exception of Pak's stuff IMO. However, I've found Rebirth to be much better for the Superman books overall, from Tomasi and Gleason on the main title to Bendis (who while suffering lately, still has a great voice and direction for Clark) to Greg Rucka on Lois Lane, and Matt Fraction on Jimmy Olsen. So, yeah, currently I'd say the Superman family is in much better than it was in the New 52 era.

[SiegePerilous02]

In my original post, I mentioned Superman himself as a character who suffered because of the New 52. I wasn't talking at all about Morrison's Action run, even though I personally find that run to be incredibly overrated. And I still find that to be true. Superman did suffer because of the New 52, and his titles during that era were pretty bad with the exception of Pak's stuff IMO. However, I've found Rebirth to be much better for the Superman books overall, from Tomasi and Gleason on the main title to Bendis (who while suffering lately, still has a great voice and direction for Clark) to Greg Rucka on Lois Lane, and Matt Fraction on Jimmy Olsen. So, yeah, currently I'd say the Superman family is in much better than it was in the New 52 era.

Maybe for the wider Superman family things are good*, but I wouldn't say so for Clark himself. I think even having one-two good runs in the New 52 means that the era itself didn't cause him to suffer, just some of the stories in it. Because he was certainly suffering as a character in the era before Flashpoint. He was a joke by the end.

Rebirth...I gave the Tomasi/Gleason run two trades (which I bought) to interest me and they weren't that good. And it looks like they got worse from there. The first two floppies of Jurgens' Action run were bland as all get out and I never went back. Bendis had some promise but lost me pretty quickly with his Bendis-isms and some of the creative decisions that I really don't like (Clark's childhood with the Legion not being in canon, unless that's changed, is the most grating). I KNOW there are plenty of people who love this stuff, and all the power to them, it sold well. It was their turn again. But I can't consider the character as suffering too much in the previous era (across the board at least) when things have been so underwhelming for him in this one. He may not be suffering as he was before Flashpoint hit, but I think he's still too...basic bitch for the Action Ace.

And honestly, you stick Rucka on a Lois Lane book you are getting good results. The surrounding continuity doesn't matter because as an icon and character, she's well suited for him. He could have written a killer Lane book in the New 52 or pre-Flashpoint as well. Ditto Fraction on Jimmy. These's characters and their core premises, broad characterizations and appeal are bigger than one continuity.

*Not Kara though. I liked Orlando's run, but now we have her being slave to the Infected crap now. Not that things looked great for her in the New 52 either.

[Sacred Knight]

He didn't suffer anymore in the New 52 than he did in the eras that preceeded it or the ones that proceeded it. His products have been a mixed bag, will continue to be a mixed bag, and what continuity they utilize doesn't really mean squat when it comes to that. Its far more about other factors like the creative team, how said team utilize whatever continuity he's in, and most importantly what freedoms they have or don't. More often than not all those things don't align, with by far the most often one falling short is the freedom factor. Its just the way DC is with him, and its been that way for decades.

Continuity just doesn't matter for Superman. They could get rid of it again tomorrow and it still wouldn't matter. With some franchises, especially ones heavy on legacy, it does. Superman isn't, not in the same way others are dependent on it. Its the whole reason the best stories DC have told with him regularly are out of continuity tales. Because its easier for a good creative team to have freedom, and what his history exactly is really doesn't matter. Origins, heavily alternate tales, end-game tales, they're usually always better than what's going on in the main line at the time. And usually stand up way better. At this point his history can be what you want it to be, as large or as small, he's that stand-alone. People know Superman just by looking at him and that's all you need.