How do you rate Dan Didio's tenure at DC Comics?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Folks that were going after Milestone was targeting McDuffie's JLA run. Because they saw some art with JLA and Milestone guys. With the assumption that they were going to replace Batman and friends.

That is what set many of them off and DESPITE McDuffie explaining Batman, WW and a few others were leaving due to storyline in their solo books-he had the book planned out to issue 50.

Where everyone comes back and nothing in their solos could be spoiled. So he planned out 3 years of stories and never got to tell them because of trolls.



New POC under New 52
Duke
Julia Pennyworth
Wallace West
Black hawkgirl
Calvin Ellis
Val (Superman)
Huntress
Luke Fox
Tanya Spears
Jessica Cruz
Simon Baz
Bunker

Erased or MIA in New 52
Bumblebee
Malcolm Duncan
Jakeem Thunder
Cassandra Cain
Quantum Kid 1 & 2
Invisible Kid 2
Wildcat 2 & 3
Mr Miracle 2
Natasha Irons
Jennifer & her sister Jefferson
Michael Lane
Orpheus
John Stewart father & brothers
Steel's family
Golden Eagle
Black Condor
Crispus Allen(as Spectre)
Panth
Bushido
Hotspot
Conner hawke
Amazing Man 1-3
Gravedigger
Machiste
Arak
Scalphunter
Question 2

Thank you! Some of these guys are still missing. Oh man, do I miss Connor Hawke.

[iron chimp]

This post literally makes no sense at all.

It wont make any sense to you because you ve never seen a new, progressive, diverse confrontational book in your life. You used to be able to buy a book by a woman telling you about her periods or how she had to suck her dad off every night alongside The Flash. The police used to raid the shops, printers refused to print books, here customs wouldnt even let you see the cover of a book and there was god's cop with his crime fighting super computer who believed he had a direct link to heaven who went on a purge of the shops. Im sure american heads will e able to tell you what they saw over there or comic book legal defense fund will have cases on their site.

Comic shop is the most meek conservative neutered art space compared to what it was.

If disney are telling you that you are the exciting new progressive force in comics doesnt that ring any alarm bells?

They had to get rid of all that crazy books, all the different genres, and art styles to make room for 'new reader' who only wanted D&D and yet another super hero universe. You killed all the diversity on the stands and patted yourself on the back for how right on you were while you did it.

Even with all that DC still tried to sell a story about a real life detective with balls of steel - offered a glimpse into what could be if people showed up with cash - but everyone was too caught up with time portals and john stewarts socks or some nonsense to bother.

Your vision of 'new' is so bland and conservative they might as well just pack up shop now.

[Dataweaver]

I give DC during his tenure a D; I give Didio an F, as the good things that happened during his tenure were either things that likely would have happened anyway or they were things that happened despite Didio.

[leo619]

The late Tony Dezuniga was the FIRST Filipino artist at Dc Comics. Guess who he CO-CREATED- Jonah Hex in 1972. 1972 is before the New 52 right????

A 16 year old was hired to design Black Lighting's first outfit and alter did his book. That BLACK 16 year old was Trevor Von Eeden in 1970s.

Darryl Banks-a BLACK man is the co-created of Green Lantern Kyle Rayner. With 192 issues drawn he is the first black artist at DC to last that long on one book. Jamal Igle or Deny Cowans is number 2.

Jamal Igle first book at DC was Kobalt #7 in 1994. He is one of 3 black artists to draw Static in an actual comic book.

Humberto Ramos is in this industry because Milestone hired him to before he got the Impulse book run.

I don't know where this claim that Dc didn't employ POC before New 52 comes from.

Since many of the folks I listed-I OWN their books. Including all but one issue of Milestone's entire library.


Now a new POC I found to get hired under New 52 was Alitha Martinez and see co-created Knightfall in Batgirl. This marks her ONLY thing done at DC.

Oh and there is ONE major thing New 52 did that DC of the past and post New 52 has NOT. Show black sexuality & love (McDuffie talked about that with Static #25 censored cover-the video is somewhere on youtibe). Luke Fox's Batwing run showed Luke in his boxer after sleeping with his EX after her Dad died. We never saw Bumblebee & Mal get married and in Doom Patrol they were splitting up and in New 52/Rebirth Mal and his daughter were MIA in Titans.

Interesting there are no black relationships (beyond Luke Fox's parents)-the males are interested in nonblack women and the women are single or LGBTQ. Then again this was an issue before New 52 as well.

That's because you aren't reading my posts. You're just attempting to argue. If you were actually interested in reading my posts except of debating nonsensical terms, you would know I specifically stated that there wasn't POC writers going specifically into the 52. I specifically talked about previous POC writers like Dwayne McDuffie that was before New 52. I stated that during a period of time before New 52 began, there wasn't any POC writers. And that is correct. New 52 wanted to bring POC writers back into the fold, and New 52 did that.

[leo619]

Yet again, you have not established how the New 52 was necessary to bringing in more writers of color. That is my point. That is what you keep dodging. How was it necessary to reboot the universe in order to bring in more writers of color?

Answer: it wasn't. DC could have done that without rebooting.

And my previous post

Except no where did I state that the reboot was required in order for diverse writers to enter the fray, I stated New 52 started the foundation of bringing POC writers into the fold
, and that is in fact true, as before New 52, there were no POC writers writing for DC.

Yet you have no evidence suggesting either that a) these fans who didn't want Milestone significantly overlapped with people who were opposed to the New 52 or b) that the people who were opposed to the New 52 weren't people who also liked Milestone. What you are doing is called making a blanket assumption.

No, what you're doing is making stuff up, because neither of those statements are statements I made. Once again, trying to move the goalpost from the original topic (classic fans being upset about Milestone being brought into DC) to your own posts (Fans who hated New 52 hated Milestone.) So how about you stay on topic except of trying to add new elements just so we can continue to debate for months.

Well, the data I provided says something different. Sometimes that happens.

Well you can agree with the data you provided and I'll agree with the data I provided.

Trust me, you have not. I'm also going to refer you to skyvolt2000's post above.

I'm not trusting your for crap, as we're clearly on opposite ends of the spectrum, and skyvolt 2000's post is filled with all types of wrong from multitude of POC characters missing from his new 52 line, him adding non-hero supporting characters from previous 52, and listing mostly characters who were entirely in Limbo by the time new 52 came in. The point still stands, New 52 finally have POC solo series, something that wasn't happening before new 52 came into place. I already have addressed my point, and the fact that you don't agree with my point doesn't change the fact that I have established my point.



]quote]This is a forum dedicated to debate and discussion and sharing our opinions. That is my opinion of the New 52. I have a right to voice my opinion. If you disagree, voice your opinion and we discuss. That is how debate works. But saying that I'm in the wrong for sharing my opinion goes against what, you know, we're doing here. Again, I have not called anyone names nor have I said: "you're wrong for liking this." What I have said is that the New 52 was bad, with the connotation that that's my opinion, and gave my reasons for why it was bad. That is all.[/quote]

Please, pretending as if these individuals aren't DC fans because they were fans from New 52 is anything but a debate. You can voice your opinion, and I can voice how you're clearly trying state it's wrong for people to like New 52. As stated before, there's a difference between expressing the flaws of a specific era, and stating people are wrong for liking it, which you have, as much as you try to pretend that you haven't.

Yes, it does vary from country to country. However, in more countries than not, Batman is likely to have a larger cultural awareness than One Piece. And for the millionth time, it's not because Batman's better. It's because he's been around much, much longer and America, for better or worse, wields a wider sphere of influence. As I said, people in the Middle East probably don't know One Piece, but they damn sure know Batman, and people in Japan know both One Piece and Batman.

Now this I can agree with, you specifically referenced cultural awareness, not cultural impact, and you said likely, which I can agree upon because we don't know for certain.

Lol. I never said the initial Cyborg series lasted only 7 issues. What I did say is that by its seventh issue, its sales were in the gutter and they were. And still, it was canceled and relaunched with a new writer and still, it didn't do too well because people, like it or not, don't care for the Titan-less direction of Cyborg.

You stated the series only lasted a few months. And it was relaunched because it was everything was being rebranded under the rebirth logo, not just Cyborg. Even with that, it still was successful enough to last 3 years. That is an successful series.

That series only lasted a few months. By its seventh issue, its sales were in the gutter. That does not make a successful series.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

That's because you aren't reading my posts. You're just attempting to argue. If you were actually interested in reading my posts except of debating nonsensical terms, you would know I specifically stated that there wasn't POC writers going specifically into the 52. I specifically talked about previous POC writers like Dwayne McDuffie that was before New 52. I stated that during a period of time before New 52 began, there wasn't any POC writers. And that is correct. New 52 wanted to bring POC writers back into the fold, and New 52 did that.

You're not getting the point of skyvolt's posts. He's pointing out how DC has a longstanding tradition of bringing in writers and artists of color without completely rebooting their universe. That is the point: DC didn't need to reboot to bring in more creators of color or female writers; they could have just relaunched titles with more of said creators while preserving their continuity, which is basically what Marvel has done. Marvel even snatched Vita Ayala, who was "trained" at DC to head up a new Morbius series.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

And my previous post

So you're admitting the New 52 wasn't necessary. Cool. I'll consider the point conceded.

No, what you're doing is making stuff up, because neither of those statements are statements I made. Once again, trying to move the goalpost from the original topic (classic fans being upset about Milestone being brought into DC) to your own posts (Fans who hated New 52 hated Milestone.) So how about you stay on topic except of trying to add new elements just so we can continue to debate for months.

Except, again, you have not established at all that the people who were not on board with Milestone joining the DCU and the people who hated the New 52 were the same group of "classic fans." You are simply making an assumption based on your preconceived idea of "classic fans," which is ridiculous. I can assure you, there are plenty of people who love Milestone and hated the New 52.

I'm not trusting your for crap, as we're clearly on opposite ends of the spectrum, and skyvolt 2000's post is filled with all types of wrong from multitude of POC characters missing from his new 52 line, him adding non-hero supporting characters from previous 52, and listing mostly characters who were entirely in Limbo by the time new 52 came in. The point still stands, New 52 finally have POC solo series, something that wasn't happening before new 52 came into place. I already have addressed my point, and the fact that you don't agree with my point doesn't change the fact that I have established my point.

Lol. You don't have to trust us, but what we're saying is true. You just don't want to admit it. And putting preconditions like this on skyvolt's list is an example of someone actually moving the goalposts. Sorry to have to break it to you, but the New 52 did erase more characters of color than it created. That includes supporting characters who were massively important like Linda Park and her and Wally's biracial children, Jai and Irey (characters skyvolt actually forgot to include) as well as heroes like Cassandra Cain, Natasha Irons, Connor Hawke, etc. And no, a lot of these characters actually weren't in limbo when the New 52 happened. And let's not even get into how it also erased a lot of the LGBTQ characters in the DC Universe...

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Didio used the New 52 to bring the DC Universe back to the state it was in back in 1980 all while saying he wanted to promote diversity.

And, for the twentieth time, those titles that you keep bringing up either didn't last long or were just bad or were both bad and didn't last long. And now those characters actually are in limbo themselves. So, even if we say that the New 52 tried to advance diversity (which again, can't be said when it erased more diversity than it created), we can't really say it did it well. Marvel, on the other hand, was able to introduce diverse characters that have since taken off like Kamala Khan and Miles Morales and they did so without rebooting their universe and alienating fans.

Please, pretending as if these individuals aren't DC fans because they were fans from New 52 is anything but a debate. You can voice your opinion, and I can voice how you're clearly trying state it's wrong for people to like New 52. As stated before, there's a difference between expressing the flaws of a specific era, and stating people are wrong for liking it, which you have, as much as you try to pretend that you haven't.

Now you are literally putting words in my mouth. Where did I ever say the phrase "you're not a real DC fan if you like the New 52"?? Answer: I didn't. What I have said is that the New 52 had a lot of problems and was an example of bad leadership and I stand by that. That's my opinion. But if you are starting to feel guilty about what you like, that's on you, not me. Don't give me credit for that. Take credit for your own opinions and your own feelings.

Now this I can agree with, you specifically referenced cultural awareness, not cultural impact, and you said likely, which I can agree upon because we don't know for certain.

Finally

You stated the series only lasted a few months. And it was relaunched because it was everything was being rebranded under the rebirth logo, not just Cyborg. Even with that, it still was successful enough to last 3 years. That is an successful series.

It did last only a few months. Again, it ended in 2016, had to be relaunched with Rebirth, and then still did poorly in sales. By issue 8 of the relaunched series, it was back to selling below 20k copies a month. That is not a successful series

[skyvolt2000]

So you're admitting the New 52 wasn't necessary. Cool. I'll consider the point conceded.

Lol. You don't have to trust us, but what we're saying is true. You just don't want to admit it. And putting preconditions like this on skyvolt's list is an example of someone actually moving the goalposts. Sorry to have to break it to you, but the New 52 did erase more characters of color than it created. That includes supporting characters who were massively important like Linda Park and her and Wally's biracial children, Jai and Irey (characters skyvolt actually forgot to include) as well as heroes like Cassandra Cain, Natasha Irons, Connor Hawke, etc. And no, a lot of these characters actually weren't in limbo when the New 52 happened. And let's not even get into how it also erased a lot of the LGBTQ characters in the DC Universe...

In my defense I was doing those lists off the top of my head.

I forgot Trevor Barnes and I have his run in Wonder Woman.
The New Guardians
Hero Cruz (I OWN his first appearance)
Black Racer
The black guy from Haunted Tank and Haunted Tank's black grandson (Vertigo series)

It did last only a few months. Again, it ended in 2016, had to be relaunched with Rebirth, and then still did poorly in sales. By issue 8 of the relaunched series, it was back to selling below 20k copies a month. That is not a successful series

Cyborg's first volume was under DC You banner.

Cyborg # 5 23618
Cyborg # 6 17864
Cyborg #12 12411 (last DC You issue) (Moon Girl #8 12721)

it was restarted under the Rebirth banner.

Rebirth Cyborg #7 was at 19788.
Rebirth Cyborg #22 was at 8357

[Vampire Savior]

The Walker run on Cyborg was not good, in my opinion. The best thing about it was Ivan Reis' artwork, and when he left the book, it didn't have a snowball's chance, though it was likely going to tank anyway, which is probably why he left. DC probably did not want to pay the price Ivan Reis commands to draw a book that wasn't going to make much money, and possibly lose money.

I think the Walker run gets credit from some Cyborg fans because it brought the character to a point where he could look like a normal person, if he wanted to. But as a story, I feel it was poor from what I recall reading of it. It was better than the Semper Jr. run, though, which I feel was comically bad at times. But at the end of the day, I don't feel it matters all that much, as both series were bad.

[Rod G]

So you're admitting the New 52 wasn't necessary. Cool. I'll consider the point conceded.



Except, again, you have not established at all that the people who were not on board with Milestone joining the DCU and the people who hated the New 52 were the same group of "classic fans." You are simply making an assumption based on your preconceived idea of "classic fans," which is ridiculous. I can assure you, there are plenty of people who love Milestone and hated the New 52.



Lol. You don't have to trust us, but what we're saying is true. You just don't want to admit it. And putting preconditions like this on skyvolt's list is an example of someone actually moving the goalposts. Sorry to have to break it to you, but the New 52 did erase more characters of color than it created. That includes supporting characters who were massively important like Linda Park and her and Wally's biracial children, Jai and Irey (characters skyvolt actually forgot to include) as well as heroes like Cassandra Cain, Natasha Irons, Connor Hawke, etc. And no, a lot of these characters actually weren't in limbo when the New 52 happened. And let's not even get into how it also erased a lot of the LGBTQ characters in the DC Universe...

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Didio used the New 52 to bring the DC Universe back to the state it was in back in 1980 all while saying he wanted to promote diversity.

And, for the twentieth time, those titles that you keep bringing up either didn't last long or were just bad or were both bad and didn't last long. And now those characters actually are in limbo themselves. So, even if we say that the New 52 tried to advance diversity (which again, can't be said when it erased more diversity than it created), we can't really say it did it well. Marvel, on the other hand, was able to introduce diverse characters that have since taken off like Kamala Khan and Miles Morales and they did so without rebooting their universe and alienating fans.



Now you are literally putting words in my mouth. Where did I ever say the phrase "you're not a real DC fan if you like the New 52"?? Answer: I didn't. What I have said is that the New 52 had a lot of problems and was an example of bad leadership and I stand by that. That's my opinion. But if you are starting to feel guilty about what you like, that's on you, not me. Don't give me credit for that. Take credit for your own opinions and your own feelings.



Finally



It did last only a few months. Again, it ended in 2016, had to be relaunched with Rebirth, and then still did poorly in sales. By issue 8 of the relaunched series, it was back to selling below 20k copies a month. That is not a successful series

You voted for Luthor. Your arguement is invalid.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

You voted for Luthor. Your point is invalid.

What are you talking about?

[Rod G]

What are you talking about?

You just don’t want to read a DCU where Luthor never won an presidential election,that’s all.

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't understand the necessary thing.Postcrisis reboot was'nt necessary either. What's the point of the discussion?

[Rod G]

I don't understand the necessary thing.Postcrisis reboot was'nt necessary either. What's the point of the discussion?

Dan Didio’s tenure at DC and whether or not it was any good.

I’m sorry that it got derailed.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

You just don’t want to read a DCU where Luthor never won an presidential election,that’s all.

I want to read a DC Universe where all the stories count and where the legacy matters. So yes, I would like Luthor's time as President to count, just as I want all stories to count.