How do you rate Dan Didio's tenure at DC Comics?

[iron chimp]

I think I can answer this.

There are some fans looking for an ultimate black man hero from DC (it seems to me that it MUST be from DC Comics, and the reasons for that are, I believe, a bit complex). They won't stop complaining until they get this (I don't think they ever really will get this, and definitely not in the foreseeable future). Some of them look to Cyborg to fulfill this dream, but are left disillusioned when Cyborg does not do this, as the attempts to elevate him are just a string of failures, including the big JL film.

Despite Cyborg doing nothing of any note on the Justice League, they believe it's the best position for Cyborg to fulfill their dream. I think they see the Teen Titans as not a prominent enough team. Thus, they would rather be slaves in heaven (having Cyborg in the Justice League where he only suffers as a character, I guess holding out hope that something will eventually work out), than be kings in hell (having Cyborg in the Teen Titans where he has a history of having better development, but he's not on the team with the trinity and other big DC icons).

I think the thinking is flawed all up and down in all kinds of ways, and these people are mostly continually setting themselves up to be disappointed, but that's how it goes as I understand it.

Yes... very perculiar that this cadre dont just go and buy something by another publisher that they might enjoy instead. Certainly makes one wonder....

[Agent Z]

Denying Cyborg from being a Titan is like denying the Thing from ever being an FF member.

Not necessarily. Cyborg's origin (his first one) doesn't require him to be a Titan.

[leo619]

You said character being a founding league member instead of titans member makes it better push for diversity. How? The character is just swapping one team for another that too not for the sake of the character but to add to the team. The team gets the benefit if any,not cyborg. If Cyborg gets any benefits then it's a good push for diversity, otherwise not. And If You are implying titans are some second rate team that no valuable character should be on or something that should be graduated from. Well, i don't agree and Cyborg's has only ever been benefited by being in the titans not in league.Furthermore,i don't value big seven. Justice league is big Because the individual characters that team up,not because the team dynamics itself is that great.The only acception to that rule is manhunter. Especially compared to any other team. Even the avengers work better as team book. The way i see cyborg works better if the character stays away from the league or uses it as some goal or reference point. Doom patrol if not titans can accommodate him and is better for the character than jl.

Yeah! They started after a while. They shouldn't have been in that position in the first place. As for listening to the backlash, that's debatable. I am speaking for myself. I don't find any quirk in the character that draws me towards the character. He is just there.

Simple really, the justice league is the premier team of the DC Universe, not the titans. Look at many of your recent events dealing with multiverse spanning threats, who's saving the day? It's not the titans, that's for sure. No knock on the titans, the titans have of course produced excellent stories and are well known. But they aren't the A team of the DC Universe. That's the Justice League. So to have a POC be a founding member of the most premier team of DC Universe is a major advancement. Of course just bringing him to the team is only part of solution, they definitely needed to do more after he was brought into the JLA which did not happened. But DC knew how important the big seven was, and how important the big seven can be towards different people. You may not care for the big seven, which is perfectly fine, but that doesn't change what the big seven essentially represents.

[leo619]

Well, pretty much everyone online, so...

Sure buddy, millions of people online agrees with your argument that new 52 was horrible ideas.....

Are they working on many high-profile projects today? Also, the bringing in of writers and artists of color didn't require the rebooting of the entire universe. That's one of the many bad ideas that the New 52 had.

I'm just going to repeat my quote:

No one stated there was a slew of POC writers that joined New 52, but New 52 helped started the foundation of bringing in POC writers to begin with.

You do realize you're not corroborating any of your numbers with sources. As much as I love Gail Simone and Dwayne McDuffie, where did they get their info? Was the source trustworthy? Was it a representative study?

You keep bringing out numbers but you're not providing any causal evidence or context to link those numbers to your argument.

Here is an article saying that readership of comics is 63% men and 37% women. Another article shows that superhero readership still skews about 78% male and that 57% of comics are bought by people aged 13-29. Both of these are from 2017.

So, a lot to unpack. It would seem to suggest that Simone and McDuffie probably weren't right about the age-range because I doubt that any market could have changed that drastically in only 6 years. For that matter, we could also credit Rebirth with bringing up this "increase" in younger readers (that is, if we assume that this wasn't already the case before 2011) since they're from after that relaunch.

Also, it shows that superhero comics still skew largely male. So, if the New 52 was supposed to help with that, it looks like it really didn't do much.

I cannot speak for where Dwayne McDuffie, Gail Simone , etc got their content from as the information was given during an SDCC panel as a powerpoint presentation. But it doesn't matter that I'm not providing links. I was at the panel and I know what I saw. I believe the content, you wouldn't believe the content because we're on different opinions, but it doesn't change the fact that this was their studies. So you can disagree with it, and I'll agree with it. especially since the polygon article clearly indicated that during the early stages of New 52, the amount of male readership was even more than the amount that Dwayne McDuffie panel quoted, though Dwayne McDuffie statistics specifically represented white males over the age of 28, while the new 52 poll grouped all of males together under one group. Which means that yes, within 6 years, DC and Marvel were able to help usher in a much needed demographic into comics. And New 52 started the foundation of bringing forward that new demographic.

What's your definition of a classic fan? I'm not even 30 yet. I don't really even surround myself with many other comic book fans. I do know how to read online articles and gauge fan reactions, though.

Classic fans has nothing to do with age, it has to do with viewpoints.

Common Traits of Classic Fans. Of course not every single classic fan falls under all of these traits, but they normally incorporate some of these trait.

Classic fans value continuity and tradition.

Classic fans often have very strong nostalgic values, focusing on characters that they read about when they were younger.

Classic fans are often resistance to new characters.

Classic fans attempts to tell new readers that things they enjoy are wrong or incorrect. This is evident in this thread with posts as your own as well as classic fans going into new/legacy characters appreciation threads and talking trash about the character (which the appreciation portion is against the rules by the way.)


These are just certain aspects of Classic Fans. On the other hand, New Readers have the following:

New Reader Characteristic:

Are more accepting of New Characters and willing to give them a try.

Care less about Continuity and more about if the story is good.

Often have a higher value on Diversity and Proper Representation.

You do know that doesn't represent the general consensus. That's the reaction of one group of people on one site.

You do know going to echo chambers of your own viewpoints doesn't represent general consensus right? Sounds like someone needs to follow their own advice as to what general consensus is.

LOL, we're talking about comics, not manga. Comics are unique because you have two major publishers basically owning a monopoly in the market and all of the most popular characters. Manga is different because you don't have Luffy competing with the likes of Superman or Spider-Man to get the spotlight in one fictional universe. One Piece is its own thing, owned by its own creator. Independent comics can find a fanbase, like Saga and East of West, but in an industry populated by characters that have been around since the 1930s, being established is a key factor to popularity. And it's much harder for brand new characters to find an audience UNLESS they are in some way tied to those established, popular characters.

At the same time though, that is also what's beautiful about comics: the mythology and the never-ending story is what attracts readers. People read Batman because he has such an enduring mythos and cast of characters. Paul Levitz really summed it up. He said that the beauty of comics is that a writer or artist can come on and build on what generations of other writers and artists built before them.

Cyborg was a part of that fabric of the DCU, until the New 52 came along and destroyed those connections. That's why nobody knew what to do with him.

The business aspect of comics does not change the storytelling aspect. They are the same as manga, you're telling a story using pictures, and as such if that story is good, than that's all that matters. Trying to overcomplicate with continuity and lore history doesn't change the fact that if you have a good story, you have a good story. You don't need 60 plus years of history to tell a good story. If you do, you're horrible as a writer. So unless we're saying that Manga writers are far superior to their comic book counterpart (which maybe possible) I'd like to give comic book writers the benefit of the doubt that they don't need to be chained to lore to produce a good story. It's alright to use lore to help the story, but when continuity and lore becomes a crutch, you need to go back to writing school.

Yeah, it did. Look at the sales numbers for his solo title. They certainly suggest that it did.

No it didn't.

[leo619]

I think I can answer this.

There are some fans looking for an ultimate black man hero from DC (it seems to me that it MUST be from DC Comics, and the reasons for that are, I believe, a bit complex). They won't stop complaining until they get this (I don't think they ever really will get this, and definitely not in the foreseeable future). Some of them look to Cyborg to fulfill this dream, but are left disillusioned when Cyborg does not do this, as the attempts to elevate him are just a string of failures, including the big JL film.

Despite Cyborg doing nothing of any note on the Justice League, they believe it's the best position for Cyborg to fulfill their dream. I think they see the Teen Titans as not a prominent enough team. Thus, they would rather be slaves in heaven (having Cyborg in the Justice League where he only suffers as a character, I guess holding out hope that something will eventually work out), than be kings in hell (having Cyborg in the Teen Titans where he has a history of having better development, but he's not on the team with the trinity and other big DC icons).

I think the thinking is flawed all up and down in all kinds of ways, and these people are mostly continually setting themselves up to be disappointed, but that's how it goes as I understand it.

How about you actually ask questions towards those that enjoy Cyborg in JLA, before you start to speak for someone like myself without having a clue as to what you're talking about. Oh yeah, there's that classic fan mentality again, speaking for someone as if they know.

The idea that those that are looking for solely the ultimate black superhero in specifically DC is absolutely asinine. Almost ALL of my books currently are Marvel and Independent Publishers. Hell, my favorite hero is Miles Morales. I currently only buy 4 books from DC, Shazam, Batman and the Outsiders, Flash, and The New Teen Titans. So the idea that those that wish to see Cyborg elevated is a slave to DC just shows you have absolutely no understanding from someone possessing this viewpoint, nor do you understand the ideas of those that are advocating for advancement in diversity representation in DC Comics.

So how about you stop speaking for us, and allow us to speak for ourselves? Kay?

[manwhohaseverything]

Simple really, the justice league is the premier team of the DC Universe, not the titans. Look at many of your recent events dealing with multiverse spanning threats, who's saving the day? It's not the titans, that's for sure. No knock on the titans, the titans have of course produced excellent stories and are well known. But they aren't the A team of the DC Universe. That's the Justice League. So to have a POC be a founding member of the most premier team of DC Universe is a major advancement. Of course just bringing him to the team is only part of solution, they definitely needed to do more after he was brought into the JLA which did not happened. But DC knew how important the big seven was, and how important the big seven can be towards different people. You may not care for the big seven, which is perfectly fine, but that doesn't change what the big seven essentially represents.

Primere team is whomever is popular or whichever is pushed at the time. Titans hasn't had a push because of obvious reasons. That's it. Titans could easily compete with justice league with right creative push. it had done it in the past. It can do so again. But, that is besides the point.

The Character being thrown into whichever team that gets popular will only remove any depth from the character and remove any value of the character. Let me ask you a hypothetical question, what would you do if they decide to push another team like jsa as Primere team? .

Cyborg elevates titans or doom Patrol because he adds something to the franchises. He adds nothing to justice league. Especially, without any backdrop or history. It isn't whomever that makes it into jl that becomes popular. It's whoever becomes popular enough that makes it into the league. Because that's how it's set up.

Even then the character needs to fit. Jason todd could become the most popular dc character. He wouldn't fit with the league.Cyborg was part of titans. He is personal character who struggles with his sides. JL isn't a team that has characters like that. It's entirely an impersonal team with people playing parts and being all about the mission . When the likes of wally, kyle.. Etc were in jl. It wasn't that impersonal team. Now, we have just the silverage team. Cyborg fitting into the mold of those guys is cutting him down, Not building him up. Flashpoint worked because the setting demanded non-paragon fallen justice league. Why would anyone want vic to be up there with these saints, paragons.. Etc and remove all the nuances of the character is beyond me.

[iron chimp]

:

Are more accepting of New Characters and willing to give them a try.

Currently reading

Shazam, Batman and the Outsiders, Flash, and The New Teen Titans

[leo619]

Primere team is whomever is popular or whichever is pushed at the time. Titans hasn't had a push because of obvious reasons. That's it. Titans could easily compete with justice league with right creative push. it had done it in the past. It can do so again. But, that is besides the point.

The Character being thrown into whichever team that gets popular will only remove any depth from the character and remove any value of the character. Let me ask you a hypothetical question, what would you do if they decide to push another team like jsa as Primere team? .

Cyborg elevates titans or doom Patrol because he adds something to the franchises. He adds nothing to justice league. Especially, without any backdrop or history. It isn't whomever that makes it into jl that becomes popular. It's whoever becomes popular enough that makes it into the league. Because that's how it's set up.

Even then the character needs to fit. Jason todd could become the most popular dc character. He wouldn't fit with the league.Cyborg was part of titans. He is personal character who struggles with his sides. JL isn't a team that has characters like that. It's entirely an impersonal team with people playing parts and being all about the mission . When the likes of wally, kyle.. Etc were in jl. It wasn't that impersonal team. Now, we have just the silverage team. Cyborg fitting into the mold of those guys is cutting him down, Not building him up. Flashpoint worked because the setting demanded non-paragon fallen justice league. Why would anyone want vic to be up there with these saints, paragons.. Etc and remove all the nuances of the character is beyond me.

But that's the thing, DC will never have any other team be their premier team. Even during the time where the titans was more popular than the JLA, the Justice League was always considered the elite team that took on the biggest threats. They will be the first ones to get movies, toys, television shows and more. Hell, people talk about how New 52 removed all of the history, and yet even with the new reboot foundation, JLA was at it's core. Now could DC decides to completely change this process and make another team their A team that gets firsts on everything? Possible, but highly unlikely.


With that said, we'll have to agree to disagree in regards Cyborg not adding anything to the Justice League. The face that you have a POC as a member of the big seven already represents a huge addiction to the franchise. That may not matter to some, but to those that values diversity, that's a huge deal. Combine that with the space like potential that was given by him having a Mother Box, and there was amazing amount of untapped potential to explore. Of course it was a different take, that's for certain, no one is denying that. But JLO was a good indicator of what Cyborg being elevated would really look like and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Though this was primarily at the beginning, as mention Dan Abnett came by and once again ruined it but that's another story.

[leo619]

Currently reading

Also reading Aero, Sword Master, Valkyrie, Dungeons and Dragons The Darkened Wish, Strikeforce, almost all of lion forge's book, Naomi, and much more. So what's your point, besides trying to pull a fox news tactic of taking a blurb to make a false statement?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Sure buddy, millions of people online agrees with your argument that new 52 was horrible ideas.....

A good amount did, yes. I don't know why that's hard for you to accept when there's like hundreds of write-ups about it.

I'm just going to repeat my quote:

Well, that didn't answer my point. At all. The point was that it wasn't necessary to reboot the universe to bring on a more diverse crop of writers and in fact, it didn't really do much to bring on more diverse writers because a vast majority of the writers in the New 52 were still white men. You saying that it "started the foundation" doesn't make that true and in fact, that was one of the criticisms lobbed at the New 52.

I cannot speak for where Dwayne McDuffie, Gail Simone , etc got their content from as the information was given during an SDCC panel as a powerpoint presentation. But it doesn't matter that I'm not providing links. I was at the panel and I know what I saw. I believe the content, you wouldn't believe the content because we're on different opinions, but it doesn't change the fact that this was their studies. So you can disagree with it, and I'll agree with it. especially since the polygon article clearly indicated that during the early stages of New 52, the amount of male readership was even more than the amount that Dwayne McDuffie panel quoted, though Dwayne McDuffie statistics specifically represented white males over the age of 28, while the new 52 poll grouped all of males together under one group. Which means that yes, within 6 years, DC and Marvel were able to help usher in a much needed demographic into comics. And New 52 started the foundation of bringing forward that new demographic.

So, in other words, you can't back up what you're saying with actual evidence. Okay, then...

Classic fans has nothing to do with age, it has to do with viewpoints.
Common Traits of Classic Fans. Of course not every single classic fan falls under all of these traits, but they normally incorporate some of these trait.

Classic fans value continuity and tradition.

Classic fans often have very strong nostalgic values, focusing on characters that they read about when they were younger.

Classic fans are often resistance to new characters.

Classic fans attempts to tell new readers that things they enjoy are wrong or incorrect. This is evident in this thread with posts as your own as well as classic fans going into new/legacy characters appreciation threads and talking trash about the character (which the appreciation portion is against the rules by the way.)


These are just certain aspects of Classic Fans. On the other hand, New Readers have the following:

New Reader Characteristic:

Are more accepting of New Characters and willing to give them a try.

Care less about Continuity and more about if the story is good.

Often have a higher value on Diversity and Proper Representation.

LOL, this is more like what fans who came on with the New 52 like to tell themselves about older fans to vilify them, despite the fact that it's demonstrably false. After all, one of the chief complaints of older fans about the New 52 was that it erased characters like Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, Kimiyo Hoshi Dr. Light, Linda Park, Jai and Irey West, etc. who were all diverse and/or relatively recent characters to the DC Universe. You may not be willing to accept it, but after Flashpoint, the DCU was actually whiter and more male than it had been since the 1960s.

Or how about the fact that the other complaint lodged at the New 52 was the fact that they bungled the Batwoman/Maggie Sawyer relationship because of the edict that no characters could get married? Or how about how they tried to fire Gail Simone (arguably the highest-profile female writer at DC at the time) from Batgirl...only to rehire her again after much confusion.

The "classic" fans you refer to care about diversity and are welcome to new characters. What they don't like are constant reboots and retcons to try and "fix" older characters who aren't broken in the first place.

You do know going to echo chambers of your own viewpoints doesn't represent general consensus right? Sounds like someone needs to follow their own advice as to what general consensus is.

LOL. What echo chambers? All I have to do is google "New 52 fan reception" and things like this pop up:

Rebirth: 15 Things the New 52 Got Wrong
DC Confirms The New 52 was Always Doomed to Fail
The Ten Worst DC “New 52” Costume Redesigns
TOP 10 CHARACTERS RUINED BY THE NEW 52

There are many more, but you probably get the point. You can't deny that fan reaction to the New 52 was palpably negative simply because you liked it.

The business aspect of comics does not change the storytelling aspect. They are the same as manga, you're telling a story using pictures, and as such if that story is good, than that's all that matters. Trying to overcomplicate with continuity and lore history doesn't change the fact that if you have a good story, you have a good story. You don't need 60 plus years of history to tell a good story. If you do, you're horrible as a writer. So unless we're saying that Manga writers are far superior to their comic book counterpart (which maybe possible) I'd like to give comic book writers the benefit of the doubt that they don't need to be chained to lore to produce a good story. It's alright to use lore to help the story, but when continuity and lore becomes a crutch, you need to go back to writing school.

Okay, then let me ask you: is Luffy as well-known worldwide as Batman? It's a simple enough question. Does Luffy have the same cultural presence and impact that Batman or Spider-Man do? If you can honestly answer yes, then I'll concede. But if not, you have to ask why that is. And if you ask anyone, they'll probably tell you that its because Batman has been around for about 6 decades longer than Luffy and has built up a more expansive mythology and lore than One Piece. Everybody knows the story of Batman and Joker. Everyone knows how Dick Grayson became the first Robin. Everyone knows about Barbara Gordon getting shot and becoming Oracle. These are all stories that are part of the canon of the Batman myth. And that is something that should be respected, not discounted.

No it didn't.

Then why did it sell so badly that it had to be canceled?

[iron chimp]

Also reading Aero, Sword Master, Valkyrie, Dungeons and Dragons The Darkened Wish, Strikeforce, almost all of lion forge's book, Naomi, and much more. So what's your point, besides trying to pull a fox news tactic of taking a blurb to make a false statement?

The blurb being your own words.... nice try tacking on a mindgarden right wing agenda tho

Plenty new stuff out at DC.. ..

Im shocked youre buying D&D rather than DCs brand new swords and sorcery comic which even has its own sourcebook so you can role play the world too.

Buying comics by old white dudes when you could be buying new fiction by a Jamaican woman at DC

Buying burnt out old franchises like batman and Shazam when you could be buying exciting original new fiction on DCs Hill House...

So yeah whats your point again?

[Rise]

A good amount did, yes. I don't know why that's hard for you to accept when there's like hundreds of write-ups about it.

Hundreds of people screaming in internet is still nothing compared to thousands of people who bought these comics....

This community for example barely represent what the majority actually feel because we are very few here compared to the actuall numbers of readers. So, you can't say for sure that the "majority" hated N52.

[Lee Stone]

Not necessarily. Cyborg's origin (his first one) doesn't require him to be a Titan.

Do you think Professor Xavier is required for Storm or Nightcrawler's origins?
Do their origins require them to be X-Men?

Wouldn't you say Raven's role in Cyborg's introduction in New Teen Titans was essentially the same as Professor Xavier's with those two?
She was the one that convinced him to become a hero and to join the Titans.
If not for her, he would've continued being depressed and likely either have killed himself or become a villain.

Back to the FF-
Thing/Human Torch = Cyborg/Changeling

[leo619]

A good amount did, yes. I don't know why that's hard for you to accept when there's like hundreds of write-ups about it.

LMAO, Sure there's hundreds of sites writing up about how horrible new 52 was. Give me a freaking break, talk about hyperbole.

Well, that didn't answer my point. At all. The point was that it wasn't necessary to reboot the universe to bring on a more diverse crop of writers and in fact, it didn't really do much to bring on more diverse writers because a vast majority of the writers in the New 52 were still white men. You saying that it "started the foundation" doesn't make that true and in fact, that was one of the criticisms lobbed at the New 52.

Except no where did I state that the reboot was required in order for diverse writers to enter the fray, I stated New 52 started the foundation of bringing POC writers into the fold, and that is in fact true, as before New 52, there were no POC writers writing for DC.
Was a reboot required in order for new POC writers to come in? No. Was the reboot a bad idea, you say yes, I say no, and that won't change no matter how long we debate over it.

So, in other words, you can't back up what you're saying with actual evidence. Okay, then...

I don't need to back up my evidence. You won't believe what I say rather I had links or not, even with the fact that your very own link from Nieson gave almost the exact same information as the content from Dwayne McDuffie stated. So if you don't believe it, that's on you. No skin off of my back if you don't believe it.

LOL, this is more like what fans who came on with the New 52 like to tell themselves about older fans to vilify them, despite the fact that it's demonstrably false. After all, one of the chief complaints of older fans about the New 52 was that it erased characters like Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, Kimiyo Hoshi Dr. Light, Linda Park, Jai and Irey West, etc. who were all diverse and/or relatively recent characters to the DC Universe. You may not be willing to accept it, but after Flashpoint, the DCU was actually whiter and more male than it had been since the 1960s.

Or how about the fact that the other complaint lodged at the New 52 was the fact that they bungled the Batwoman/Maggie Sawyer relationship because of the edict that no characters could get married? Or how about how they tried to fire Gail Simone (arguably the highest-profile female writer at DC at the time) from Batgirl...only to rehire her again after much confusion.

The "classic" fans you refer to care about diversity and are welcome to new characters. What they don't like are constant reboots and retcons to try and "fix" older characters who aren't broken in the first place.

LMAO, spoken like someone who has a faintest clue about diversity if you think the push of diversity from New 52 is worse than what's it's been in the 1960's. But than again, you seem to believe that being listed in stables or background characters constitute as diverse. Take that viewpoint to the Mary Sue and see how quick you'll get chumped.

And no, that's a load of hogwash. It's well known that new characters do not sell well and diverse characters did not sell well. That was why ANAD came into play as well as New 52, as well as the upcoming 5g. Hell DC tried to talk trash about what marvel did with ANAD by bringing out the dark matter books, and not a single one of them survive with top quality writers/artist place on books.

LOL. What echo chambers? All I have to do is google "New 52 fan reception" and things like this pop up:

Rebirth: 15 Things the New 52 Got Wrong
DC Confirms The New 52 was Always Doomed to Fail
The Ten Worst DC “New 52” Costume Redesigns
TOP 10 CHARACTERS RUINED BY THE NEW 52

There are many more, but you probably get the point. You can't deny that fan reaction to the New 52 was palpably negative simply because you liked it.

Oh Really? Because I can do the same

https://www.themarysue.com/dc-new-52-sales-good/

https://io9.gizmodo.com/what-dcs-new...ong-1756495268

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhug.../#621826915f73


And just like you, I can keep going. So again, what does that say? Just like anything, there were many of people who liked it, and there were many people who didn't like it. Some people like certain aspects of it while disliking other aspects of it. But overall, different people had different viewpoints on the era, And NOTHING you say is going to change that fact.

Okay, then let me ask you: is Luffy as well-known worldwide as Batman? It's a simple enough question. Does Luffy have the same cultural presence and impact that Batman or Spider-Man do? If you can honestly answer yes, then I'll concede. But if not, you have to ask why that is. And if you ask anyone, they'll probably tell you that its because Batman has been around for about 6 decades longer than Luffy and has built up a more expansive mythology and lore than One Piece. Everybody knows the story of Batman and Joker. Everyone knows how Dick Grayson became the first Robin. Everyone knows about Barbara Gordon getting shot and becoming Oracle. These are all stories that are part of the canon of the Batman myth. And that is something that should be respected, not discounted.

Um...Yes, One Piece a couple of years ago sold more than the freaking bible. He may not have as strong of as following in certain countries than others (the same with batman, in other countries), but One Piece is expected to surpass Harry Potter in sales in the next 5 years (Harry Potter is another example of brand new lore that became successful but that's a novel.) A one piece is just one example, let alone other well known anime series like Naruto, Dragon Ball Z, etc

Then why did it sell so badly that it had to be canceled?

Um....because of bad writing? We already went over this. When walker was writing the book, it was successful. But just like DC, they switch out the writer with a new writer, and the book starts floundering. This isn't new news, this is a common case in many books coming from DC. They start off strong with a writer, switch them out with a different writer, and the book plunders. Earth 2 ran into this issue, JLO is running into this problem, etc. It's something DC should learn a long time ago that you don't mess with a formula but they don't seem to learn.

[leo619]

The blurb being your own words.... nice try tacking on a mindgarden right wing agenda tho

Plenty new stuff out at DC.. ..

Im shocked youre buying D&D rather than DCs brand new swords and sorcery comic which even has its own sourcebook so you can role play the world too.

Buying comics by old white dudes when you could be buying new fiction by a Jamaican woman at DC

Buying burnt out old franchises like batman and Shazam when you could be buying exciting original new fiction on DCs Hill House...

So yeah whats your point again?

Also my words, which was right in the exact same quote you decided to ignore

Almost ALL of my books currently are Marvel and Independent Publishers.

But you decide to ignore that, which is also compounded by the ignorance of your statements seeing that

DnD A darkened wish, Batman and The Ousiders, the Lion Forge books and more are all POC writers. But hey, that doesn't fit the hysterical attempt of trying to make someone sound hypocritical just because their views doesn't match with yours.

As such, there's no point in indicating my point AGAIN, because you clearly aren't interested in it.