How do you rate Dan Didio's tenure at DC Comics?

[Rise]

I'm just going to say couple of things about this whole argument.

First, I'm against supporting a character or someone based on their color or whatever. You don't get a special treatment because you black, white or whatever and it's almost as bad as being discriminatory based on those things. iron chimp said it best that this isn't a charity. If you have a cause you want to support, give this dollar to charity instead of wasting it on low quality comic you aren't enjoying.

Second, I can understand classic fans (I prefer to call them nostalgia fans tbh) caring only about characters they grow up with and they have every right to not care about new characters. What it's not right is acting like entitled bunch who think only their opinions matter and new fans understand nothing and have no taste. You don't like N52? That's fine, but don't pretend that everyone else does too and looks down at people who don't hate it. I know from experience that nostalgia fans have made fan community completely terrible due to entitlement and the refusal to accept that people can like different things (which was never exclusive to comics community because you can see it in SW, FF...etc).

And last, realize that things you experienced as child/teenger won't give you the same enjoyment you had if you experienced them as adult because you grow up and change. Comics aren't really worse, you simply started to see them in more critical look than you did as a child and have different expectations. It's why franchises that can't win over new younger fans are struggling in today's market.

[SiegePerilous02]

Well, the Tomasi/Gleason run is remembered as some of the best Superman comics of the past decade by a large amount of the fanbase. Also, Bendis-isms aside, I will take his Superman over Lobdell's or even Morrison's any day of the week. So, yeah, still superior to how it was in the New 52 for me.

It seems like you're just looking at comments from people on sites like this that agree with you and assuming that they represent the majority, or that everyone rejected the New 52. That's not the case.

It is held up as some of the best Superman stories by some fans. So was Morrison's by another group of fans. There are even likely to be overlaps in the two groups.

Except I doubt he wanted much to do at all with the New 52 continuity to be completely honest. He seems to be one of the creators, like Mark Waid and Alex Ross, who absolutely despised the New 52.

His stance on New 52 Wonder Woman is pretty clear, but unless you have some sources, I think that's just an assumption on how he'd feel about the New 52 as a whole.

Lois was basically her iconic self, a younger version but otherwise back to the factory setting and still one of the most iconic supporting characters ever. He could write a story with her in his sleep since she's bigger than any single shared continuity. I don't think Rucka would care enough about her being married or not, it's not as if that's the only thing that defines Lois.

And even with the New 52 vs. Rebirth Wonder Woman, both sold well and did well critically. And at least in my comic shops, both were well liked by the same people. These "mine vs. yours" shouting matches are usually reserved for the internet, and they don't matter there that much because people making noise online is just an annoying fact of life. And it's not as if Rucka restored things to pre-Flashpoint either, he basically made his own new version that was better than post-Crisis.

Morrison's run is remembered as some of the best Superman comics of the past decade too. But just as that doesn't and doesn't have to stop you from being personally unimpressed with it, it doesn't have to stop others from being generally unimpressed with Tomasi's run either.

What he said.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

It seems like you're just looking at comments from people on sites like this that agree with you and assuming that they represent the majority, or that everyone rejected the New 52. That's not the case.

It is held up as some of the best Superman stories by some fans. So was Morrison's by another group of fans. There are even likely to be overlaps in the two groups.

All I did was google "New 52 fan reaction" and those were some of the first articles that popped up. That's not really cherrypicking evidence.

And Morrison's Superman may be fondly remembered, but good runs for Superman in the New 52 era were hard to come by. Perez's run faced a lot of problems, Lobdell's was awful, Yang's was, at best, average and Truth dragged out for much longer than it needed to. Rebirth has at least been much more consistent in terms of quality.

His stance on New 52 Wonder Woman is pretty clear, but unless you have some sources, I think that's just an assumption on how he'd feel about the New 52 as a whole.

Lois was basically her iconic self, a younger version but otherwise back to the factory setting and still one of the most iconic supporting characters ever. He could write a story with her in his sleep since she's bigger than any single shared continuity. I don't think Rucka would care enough about her being married or not, it's not as if that's the only thing that defines Lois.

I think the fact that he's played a lot with her marriage in her series and that, one of the first things he did was bring back Renee Montoya as the Question, something erased in the New 52, makes it kind of clear what sandbox he'd rather be playing in. I'd also say that since Greg came onto Wonder Woman and literally dubbed the stuff that came before it (i.e. the New 52 version) as "Lies," then yes, it's clear what he felt about it.

[SiegePerilous02]

All I did was google "New 52 fan reaction" and those were some of the first articles that popped up. That's not really cherrypicking evidence.

"Articles" implies more than one. I literally just did the same thing and the only thing that popped up is ONE CBR article about negative fan reactions, and a lot of unrelated sports stuff lol. I think you're still cherry picking what you want to see.

Capture.jpg

I think the fact that he's played a lot with her marriage in her series and that, one of the first things he did was bring back Renee Montoya as the Question, something erased in the New 52, makes it kind of clear what sandbox he'd rather be playing in. I'd also say that since Greg came onto Wonder Woman and literally dubbed the stuff that came before it (i.e. the New 52 version) as "Lies," then yes, it's clear what he felt about it.

Well duh, he's playing with her marriage because that's the status quo now. I doubt Rucka would be averse to touching Lois if she wasn't married. She's been around far longer than her marriage has, and the Lois that got married in the 90s wasn't even the original version(s).

And that doesn't contradict what I said. I already said his feelings on Wonder Woman were well known, but that just indicates he has certain views on characters he prefers. It doesn't mean he'd be averse to playing in a New 52 sandbox (or whatever) if he can write the characters how he views them. He erased the New 52 WW, but didn't exactly return the pre-Flashpoint one either. He largely invented a new sandbox. Year One was originally his pitch for Earth One, which wouldn't even be in a main continuity.

[Menacer]

I'm just going to say couple of things about this whole argument.

First, I'm against supporting a character or someone based on their color or whatever. You don't get a special treatment because you black, white or whatever and it's almost as bad as being discriminatory based on those things. iron chimp said it best that this isn't a charity. If you have a cause you want to support, give this dollar to charity instead of wasting it on low quality comic you aren't enjoying.

Second, I can understand classic fans (I prefer to call them nostalgia fans tbh) caring only about characters they grow up with and they have every right to not care about new characters. What it's not right is acting like entitled bunch who think only their opinions matter and new fans understand nothing and have no taste. You don't like N52? That's fine, but don't pretend that everyone else does too and looks down at people who don't hate it. I know from experience that nostalgia fans have made fan community completely terrible due to entitlement and the refusal to accept that people can like different things (which was never exclusive to comics community because you can see it in SW, FF...etc).

And last, realize that things you experienced as child/teenger won't give you the same enjoyment you had if you experienced them as adult because you grow up and change. Comics aren't really worse, you simply started to see them in more critical look than you did as a child and have different expectations. It's why franchises that can't win over new younger fans are struggling in today's market.

Yup this is exactly right

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

"Articles" implies more than one. I literally just did the same thing and the only thing that popped up is ONE CBR article about negative fan reactions, and a lot of unrelated sports stuff lol. I think you're still cherry picking what you want to see.

Capture.jpg

It's telling that the first thing that came up was "DC Comics that Enraged Fans" and again, I don't have to make the case that DC messed up with the New 52. DC themselves have conceded that point.

Well duh, he's playing with her marriage because that's the status quo now. I doubt Rucka would be averse to touching Lois if she wasn't married. She's been around far longer than her marriage has, and the Lois that got married in the 90s wasn't even the original version(s).

Dude. I think you can come to the conclusion that he has a preference for the state of characters as they were before the New 52. The first thing he did when he got onto Wonder Woman was undoing almost everything Azzarello did. And his Lois Lane series feels like it takes place in the Pre-Flashpoint DC Universe. He used it to bring back Renee Montoya as the Question, something that was distinctly erased by the New 52. He has also brought back several other characters from before the New 52 like Jessica Midnight, who I'm pretty sure was last seen literally in 2010.

But we can just agree to disagree.

And that doesn't contradict what I said. I already said his feelings on Wonder Woman were well known, but that just indicates he has certain views on characters he prefers. It doesn't mean he'd be averse to playing in a New 52 sandbox (or whatever) if he can write the characters how he views them. He erased the New 52 WW, but didn't exactly return the pre-Flashpoint one either. He largely invented a new sandbox. Year One was originally his pitch for Earth One, which wouldn't even be in a main continuity.

Yes, but Wonder Woman is understandably a very important property to Greg Rucka, probably the most personal of DC's IPs to him. So, I think it's likely that his opinions about the state of that franchise informed what he felt about the initiative as a whole.

[Zero Hunter]

Might be time to close this thread down since it is just turned into an argument about the Nu52 and not Didio anymore.

[leo619]

I don't see many writers of color working at DC right now. I count maybe two at most. The highest-profile one that was there just recently wrapped up his Deathstroke run. Also, he came back to DC with Rebirth, not New 52. I also didn't count many during the New 52 era. Maybe three at most. And it is not moving the goal post to ask what high-profile titles they're working on. If we really want to make it easier for writers and artists of color to get work at DC, we have to ask if they are being entrusted with key properties.

The point is that we're now having POC writers, when before new 52 there wasn't. There's also more POC writers in Marvel, when before New 52 there weren't any. Can they make improvements, most certainly, there's always room for improvements. But that's why it's called a foundation, Rome wasn't built overnight. And talking about if current POC writers are on high profile books is moving the goalpost, as my original statement was about setting the foundation, not that they had perfect representation currently. Both Marvel and DC have rooms for improvement, but at least now we're moving in the right direction.

Well I've seen nothing but support for Milestone characters coming back. So it's not hogwash. It just sucks that the New 52 Static series left such a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

That's because you decide to see what you wish to see. But when the creator of Milestone specifically calls out readers giving him crap for bringing out milestone into the DC universe, it's obvious where the mindset of readers are.

Lol. So, its only evidence when it fits your narrative, huh? You can try to deny that all you want, but there is no evidence that New 52 led to an increase in female readership and the data showing said increase came after Rebirth.

You believe there isn't any evidence and I believe the polls indicate that New 52 helped with the readership, nothing we say is going to change our mind. Thought link I revealed for the increase happened in 2014, that's during the height of New 52, Rebirth didn't happen until 2016.

In other words, you don't have a response because, in the end, they did erase more characters of color than the New 52 created...

And you can keep saying that it helped establish solo POC series, but none of those series lasted long. Some of them didn't even make it to 10 issues.

And I haven't called anyone horrible for liking anything. I've pointed out the flaws with the New 52. And there were plenty to point out. I've seen plenty of mudslinging and mischaracterization from you, though.

Oh I have responses, it's the exact same responses I've been giving for the last 5 posts as we continue to run this merry go round until the sun comes up.

And yes, you have been calling out individuals for liking the new 52, making it seem like it's wrong for enjoying it.

Originally Posted by Pinsir
I gave him an A because of the New 52. His only flaw is that he allowed Rebirth to happen.

Originally Posted by Rod G
I agree with you there, Pinsir.

The New 52 was a rushed, controversial, and messy reboot that seriously hurt DC's reputation and viability. I was instantly derided by fans and critics alike and rightly so. It was just objectively not a good move, even if a small sliver of the fanbase liked it. Whoever was behind the New 52 should have lost their job just for that alone.

That's just one example of you trying to state it's wrong for enjoying New 52. So let's stop pretending like you haven't attacking individuals who enjoyed New 52, you have, and I'll keep posting until you respect the fact that people can enjoy New 52 and there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm sorry your argument doesn't hold up. Again, the proof is in dollars. More people go to the movies than read manga. Batman films make billions worldwide while no One Piece movie has ever made close to that amount. At all. And to say that it makes billions from manga is a little generous. One Piece makes about $26 million per year from everything. One Joker film makes over $1 billion in about a month. Add to that all of the comics sales, animated films, animated series, merchandise, etc. You do the math on that.

And of course One Piece is incredibly popular in Japan. However, if you go to Hungary or India or Kenya, they will probably know who Batman is over any character from One Piece. That is not inherently because Batman is American. It's because Batman has been around for about 60 years longer than One Piece has and has permeated the global culture in a way that One Piece has not. Batman is a symbol that is universally recognized. Again, I'm pretty sure nobody in my family except for me knows who Monkey D. Luffy is. I'm sorry you do not like that fact, but it is a fact.

Also, you keep using the word "xenophobia" incorrectly. I feel like I should at least point that out, especially since I'm first-generation American and have experienced actual xenophobia.

That is my mistake, the word I was looking for was Ethnocentric, which is "evaluation of other cultures according to preconceptions originating in the standards and customs of one's own culture." Which is entirely what you're doing. Instead of respecting the fact that different countries have different cultural impacts from different properties, you attempt to presume that Batman has higher universal cultural impact across the board. This you do not know. You have not been to every single country in the world and know that in every single country, batman is a more impactful property than One Piece. You only assume so due to Batman having a movie that's been a box office hit. Others have already addressed this post as well so I don't need to go any further into this.

That series only lasted a few months. By its seventh issue, its sales were in the gutter. That does not make a successful series.

Wrong, the series lasted 3+ years.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

The point is that we're now having POC writers, when before new 52 there wasn't. There's also more POC writers in Marvel, when before New 52 there weren't any. Can they make improvements, most certainly, there's always room for improvements. But that's why it's called a foundation, Rome wasn't built overnight. And talking about if current POC writers are on high profile books is moving the goalpost, as my original statement was about setting the foundation, not that they had perfect representation currently. Both Marvel and DC have rooms for improvement, but at least now we're moving in the right direction.

And as multiple people, including myself, have told you, there were writers and creators of color at DC before the New 52. There's a long history of DC collaborating with writers and artists of color, including during the time when Milestone was at its height. So again, the New 52 rebooting the whole universe was not necessary to do this. Why have you addressed this point, which I've brought up multiple times??

That's because you decide to see what you wish to see. But when the creator of Milestone specifically calls out readers giving him crap for bringing out milestone into the DC universe, it's obvious where the mindset of readers are.

And you're deciding to assign blanket motivations to an entire group of people. Again, the people I've seen have all been wishing for the Milestone characters to return and a lot of them are angered that the New 52 ended up being such a bad outing for those characters.

You believe there isn't any evidence and I believe the polls indicate that New 52 helped with the readership, nothing we say is going to change our mind. Thought link I revealed for the increase happened in 2014, that's during the height of New 52, Rebirth didn't happen until 2016.

And the data I provided said it didn't happen until 2017.

Oh I have responses, it's the exact same responses I've been giving for the last 5 posts as we continue to run this merry go round until the sun comes up.

No, you don't because you haven't actually established that New 52 created more diverse characters than the ones that were erased. For each of the characters you've listed, I could give you at least three that were erased.

And yes, you have been calling out individuals for liking the new 52, making it seem like it's wrong for enjoying it.

That's just one example of you trying to state it's wrong for enjoying New 52. So let's stop pretending like you haven't attacking individuals who enjoyed New 52, you have, and I'll keep posting until you respect the fact that people can enjoy New 52 and there's nothing wrong with that.

Pointing out the flaws of the New 52 is not "attacking." Did I call either of those guys xenophobes (again, inaccurately)? No. No, I did not. I'm not the one throwing out such accusations.

And I'm hardly the only one who has noted those flaws. Why don't you ask Joshua Hale Fialkov or James Robinson or Marc Bernardin what they think of the New 52.

That is my mistake, the word I was looking for was Ethnocentric, which is "evaluation of other cultures according to preconceptions originating in the standards and customs of one's own culture." Which is entirely what you're doing. Instead of respecting the fact that different countries have different cultural impacts from different properties, you attempt to presume that Batman has higher universal cultural impact across the board. This you do not know. You have not been to every single country in the world and know that in every single country, batman is a more impactful property than One Piece. You only assume so due to Batman having a movie that's been a box office hit. Others have already addressed this post as well so I don't need to go any further into this.

Well, actually, that's not the same thing. Ethnocentrism doesn't really mean what you think it means either, but whatever. We're talking about what is more well-known around the world. And actually, I can say that, without a doubt, that its Batman or at least I can make a very educated guess going off of global trends and evidence of cultural influence.

There are articles and books written about the long-reaching impact of superheroes on global culture, not just Batman, but Superman and Spider-Man and the Avengers too. Here are a few examples:

https://www.filmink.com.au/the-age-o...es-so-popular/
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/...man-so-popular
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/...heroes/328461/

That write-up in the Guardian even describes Superman as the first "global superhero." And they're right. Superman (like Batman) is a global symbol, which is not surprising. For better or worse, American cultural exports have had a disproportionate impact on the world for the past 70 years because the U.S. has been a global superpower for about that long. As such, the U.S. has a significant and wide-reaching influence on global culture and media.

I also know this from firsthand knowledge. My father was born and raised in the Middle East, has never read a comic book in his life, and hates superhero movies with a passion. However, he can still instantly tell me who Superman and Batman are. BUT, if I asked him what One Piece was, his response would be "what is One Piece?" And again, that's not because Batman or Superman are better. One Piece just hasn't been around as long as they have.

Wrong, the series lasted 3+ years.

Actually, you're wrong. That series you're citing ended in 2016. It was relaunched with John Semper Jr. as part of Rebirth.

[Lee Stone]

That search, without the 'space' between New and 52...

[skyvolt2000]

That's because you decide to see what you wish to see. But when the creator of Milestone specifically calls out readers giving him crap for bringing out milestone into the DC universe, it's obvious where the mindset of readers are.

Folks that were going after Milestone was targeting McDuffie's JLA run. Because they saw some art with JLA and Milestone guys. With the assumption that they were going to replace Batman and friends.

That is what set many of them off and DESPITE McDuffie explaining Batman, WW and a few others were leaving due to storyline in their solo books-he had the book planned out to issue 50.

Where everyone comes back and nothing in their solos could be spoiled. So he planned out 3 years of stories and never got to tell them because of trolls.

No, you don't because you haven't actually established that New 52 created more diverse characters than the ones that were erased. For each of the characters you've listed, I could give you at least three that were erased.

New POC under New 52
Duke
Julia Pennyworth
Wallace West
Black hawkgirl
Calvin Ellis
Val (Superman)
Huntress
Luke Fox
Tanya Spears
Jessica Cruz
Simon Baz
Bunker

Erased or MIA in New 52
Bumblebee
Malcolm Duncan
Jakeem Thunder
Cassandra Cain
Quantum Kid 1 & 2
Invisible Kid 2
Wildcat 2 & 3
Mr Miracle 2
Natasha Irons
Jennifer & her sister Jefferson
Michael Lane
Orpheus
John Stewart father & brothers
Steel's family
Golden Eagle
Black Condor
Crispus Allen(as Spectre)
Panth
Bushido
Hotspot
Conner hawke
Amazing Man 1-3
Gravedigger
Machiste
Arak
Scalphunter
Question 2

[leo619]

30 years ago people were buying books about black.kids as canon fodder in a corporate - military hell future which proved very prescient as the body count in africa climbed up as global companies, african war lords and worlds governments up the ante to seize control of africas resources so that kids have got the rare minerals for their phones so they can log in to the richest man in the worlds computer to buy their comics whilst being told they are at forefront of a new dawn because they bought a comic about a kid punching an octopus.

Did t touch a nerve. Did mske me laugh though that this exciting 'new reader' gets all worked up about cyborgs belt buckle or some nonsense whilst a book about a real man will balls of steel going up against the klan is left on the shelves ...

You got played so badly

This post literally makes no sense at all.

[leo619]

And as multiple people, including myself, have told you, there were writers and creators of color at DC before the New 52. There's a long history of DC collaborating with writers and artists of color, including during the time when Milestone was at its height. So again, the New 52 rebooting the whole universe was not necessary to do this. Why have you addressed this point, which I've brought up multiple times??

And as I have been stated numerous times, I was specifically referring to the time before New 52 came in, I have already stated there were POC writers before New 52 and specifically talked about Dwayne McDuffie as an example, but one of the purposes for New 52 was to bring in more POC writers into the fold and that was exactly what it did.

And you're deciding to assign blanket motivations to an entire group of people. Again, the people I've seen have all been wishing for the Milestone characters to return and a lot of them are angered that the New 52 ended up being such a bad outing for those characters.

No, I'm pointing out the clear difference between your statement and the Truth. The TRUTH, as according to Dwayne, was that readers were giving him trouble for trying to bring Milestone into picture to begin with. Does that mean that ALL classic readers have an issue with Milestone comics? Of course not, but the fact that Dwayne McDuffie clearly called out this readership clearly indicates the "general consensus" had a problem with Milestone, not wanted to support it. And I'll take Dwayne McDuffie over you deciding to focus on classic readers any day of the week

And the data I provided said it didn't happen until 2017.

And the Data I provided stated the women demographic shift started to happen in 2014.

No, you don't because you haven't actually established that New 52 created more diverse characters than the ones that were erased. For each of the characters you've listed, I could give you at least three that were erased.

Yes I have, and sure buddy, if you say so.

Pointing out the flaws of the New 52 is not "attacking." Did I call either of those guys xenophobes (again, inaccurately)? No. No, I did not. I'm not the one throwing out such accusations.

Yes it is, when you're calling out someone for enjoying the new 52 by saying that it was a bad idea, that's attacking it. Period. You may believe it is not an attack but it is. Especially pretending that "it's a rough time to be a DC fan" as if New 52 fans aren't DC fans.

And I'm hardly the only one who has noted those flaws. Why don't you ask Joshua Hale Fialkov or James Robinson or Marc Bernardin what they think of the New 52.

No one is saying you can't point out flaws, I have pointed out it's flaws. But there's a big difference between pointing out the flaws of a specific era and trying to give some horrible impression that these individuals are wrong for enjoying a specific era.

Well, actually, that's not the same thing. Ethnocentrism doesn't really mean what you think it means either, but whatever. We're talking about what is more well-known around the world. And actually, I can say that, without a doubt, that its Batman or at least I can make a very educated guess going off of global trends and evidence of cultural influence.

There are articles and books written about the long-reaching impact of superheroes on global culture, not just Batman, but Superman and Spider-Man and the Avengers too. Here are a few examples:

https://www.filmink.com.au/the-age-o...es-so-popular/
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/...man-so-popular
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/...heroes/328461/

That write-up in the Guardian even describes Superman as the first "global superhero." And they're right. Superman (like Batman) is a global symbol, which is not surprising. For better or worse, American cultural exports have had a disproportionate impact on the world for the past 70 years because the U.S. has been a global superpower for about that long. As such, the U.S. has a significant and wide-reaching influence on global culture and media.

I also know this from firsthand knowledge. My father was born and raised in the Middle East, has never read a comic book in his life, and hates superhero movies with a passion. However, he can still instantly tell me who Superman and Batman are. BUT, if I asked him what One Piece was, his response would be "what is One Piece?" And again, that's not because Batman or Superman are better. One Piece just hasn't been around as long as they have.

Do a google search, you will see that Ethnocentrism is the exact definition as I quoted in my sentence. So you may disagree with that being the definition, but that is the definition of the word. What you're talking about is Cultural Awareness, I'm talking about Cultural Impact, even though your first statement was discussing if One Piece has at much Cultural Impact as Batman. As stated before, it ranges from country to country. In the US? No. In the UK? Probably Not. In Japan, One Piece has more cultural impact than Batman. In Korea? One Piece also has more cultural Impact than Batman. And that's the point, it varies depending upon the country.

Actually, you're wrong. That series you're citing ended in 2016. It was relaunched with John Semper Jr. as part of Rebirth.

The Rebirth series was a continuation of the previous series, just being relaunched under the Rebirth logo. But seeing as the first volume finished right as the second volume began, it still proved my point that the Cyborg Solo series itself lasted much longer than the mere 7 issues you tried to paint.

[skyvolt2000]

The point is that we're now having POC writers, when before new 52 there wasn't.

The late Tony Dezuniga was the FIRST Filipino artist at Dc Comics. Guess who he CO-CREATED- Jonah Hex in 1972. 1972 is before the New 52 right????

A 16 year old was hired to design Black Lighting's first outfit and alter did his book. That BLACK 16 year old was Trevor Von Eeden in 1970s.

Darryl Banks-a BLACK man is the co-created of Green Lantern Kyle Rayner. With 192 issues drawn he is the first black artist at DC to last that long on one book. Jamal Igle or Deny Cowans is number 2.

Jamal Igle first book at DC was Kobalt #7 in 1994. He is one of 3 black artists to draw Static in an actual comic book.

Humberto Ramos is in this industry because Milestone hired him to before he got the Impulse book run.

I don't know where this claim that Dc didn't employ POC before New 52 comes from.

Since many of the folks I listed-I OWN their books. Including all but one issue of Milestone's entire library.


Now a new POC I found to get hired under New 52 was Alitha Martinez and see co-created Knightfall in Batgirl. This marks her ONLY thing done at DC.

Oh and there is ONE major thing New 52 did that DC of the past and post New 52 has NOT. Show black sexuality & love (McDuffie talked about that with Static #25 censored cover-the video is somewhere on youtibe). Luke Fox's Batwing run showed Luke in his boxer after sleeping with his EX after her Dad died. We never saw Bumblebee & Mal get married and in Doom Patrol they were splitting up and in New 52/Rebirth Mal and his daughter were MIA in Titans.

Interesting there are no black relationships (beyond Luke Fox's parents)-the males are interested in nonblack women and the women are single or LGBTQ. Then again this was an issue before New 52 as well.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

And as I have been stated numerous times, I was specifically referring to the time before New 52 came in, I have already stated there were POC writers before New 52 and specifically talked about Dwayne McDuffie as an example, but one of the purposes for New 52 was to bring in more POC writers into the fold and that was exactly what it did.

Yet again, you have not established how the New 52 was necessary to bringing in more writers of color. That is my point. That is what you keep dodging. How was it necessary to reboot the universe in order to bring in more writers of color?

Answer: it wasn't. DC could have done that without rebooting.

No, I'm pointing out the clear difference between your statement and the Truth. The TRUTH, as according to Dwayne, was that readers were giving him trouble for trying to bring Milestone into picture to begin with. Does that mean that ALL classic readers have an issue with Milestone comics? Of course not, but the fact that Dwayne McDuffie clearly called out this readership clearly indicates the "general consensus" had a problem with Milestone, not wanted to support it. And I'll take Dwayne McDuffie over you deciding to focus on classic readers any day of the week

Yet you have no evidence suggesting either that a) these fans who didn't want Milestone significantly overlapped with people who were opposed to the New 52 or b) that the people who were opposed to the New 52 weren't people who also liked Milestone. What you are doing is called making a blanket assumption.

And the Data I provided stated the women demographic shift started to happen in 2014.

Well, the data I provided says something different. Sometimes that happens.

Yes I have, and sure buddy, if you say so.

Trust me, you have not. I'm also going to refer you to skyvolt2000's post above.

Yes it is, when you're calling out someone for enjoying the new 52 by saying that it was a bad idea, that's attacking it. Period. You may believe it is not an attack but it is. Especially pretending that "it's a rough time to be a DC fan" as if New 52 fans aren't DC fans.

No one is saying you can't point out flaws, I have pointed out it's flaws. But there's a big difference between pointing out the flaws of a specific era and trying to give some horrible impression that these individuals are wrong for enjoying a specific era.

This is a forum dedicated to debate and discussion and sharing our opinions. That is my opinion of the New 52. I have a right to voice my opinion. If you disagree, voice your opinion and we discuss. That is how debate works. But saying that I'm in the wrong for sharing my opinion goes against what, you know, we're doing here. Again, I have not called anyone names nor have I said: "you're wrong for liking this." What I have said is that the New 52 was bad, with the connotation that that's my opinion, and gave my reasons for why it was bad. That is all.

Do a google search, you will see that Ethnocentrism is the exact definition as I quoted in my sentence. So you may disagree with that being the definition, but that is the definition of the word.

But you misapplied it, is the point.

What you're talking about is Cultural Awareness, I'm talking about Cultural Impact, even though your first statement was discussing if One Piece has at much Cultural Impact as Batman. As stated before, it ranges from country to country. In the US? No. In the UK? Probably Not. In Japan, One Piece has more cultural impact than Batman. In Korea? One Piece also has more cultural Impact than Batman. And that's the point, it varies depending upon the country.

Yes, it does vary from country to country. However, in more countries than not, Batman is likely to have a larger cultural awareness than One Piece. And for the millionth time, it's not because Batman's better. It's because he's been around much, much longer and America, for better or worse, wields a wider sphere of influence. As I said, people in the Middle East probably don't know One Piece, but they damn sure know Batman, and people in Japan know both One Piece and Batman.

The Rebirth series was a continuation of the previous series, just being relaunched under the Rebirth logo. But seeing as the first volume finished right as the second volume began, it still proved my point that the Cyborg Solo series itself lasted much longer than the mere 7 issues you tried to paint.

Lol. I never said the initial Cyborg series lasted only 7 issues. What I did say is that by its seventh issue, its sales were in the gutter and they were. And still, it was canceled and relaunched with a new writer and still, it didn't do too well because people, like it or not, don't care for the Titan-less direction of Cyborg.