Thread: Red Hood: Outlaw #43 Preview / Discussion (Spoilers)

[Sergard]

Okay, here's a more detailed list of the things I liked in RH:O #43:
(The only thing that I really had a problem with was the artwork.)

+ The cover (Dan Mora has a beautiful art style and Rex Lokus' colors fit perfectly. It would have been nice if their names had been mentioned on the team list.)
+ Ben Abernathy (the editor of DCeased and Unkillables) is one of the editors of this issue.
+ An appearance of Suzie Su (Suzie Su is an icon and always will be. There's nothing better than an enemy-turned-friend-character. Which also reminds me of Crux who, sadly, still hasn't made his return.)
+ An appearance of another Su sister
+ Su sisters bonding
+ Suzie defending Jason
+ Death is a "she"
+ Addressing Suzie's ability to return from the dead
+ Dark Trinity being together
+ Jason praising his teammates (*)
+ Jason being more focused on being annoyed than actually caring about the fact that he's falling off a train
+ Artemis saving Jason (**)
+ Jason admitting that he feels lonely
+ return of the Untitled
+ Artemis reminding us that she's not your normal "mortal"
+ Bizarro's little sun joke (reference to the last annual)/Bizarro being fun in general
+ Jason using the All-Blades to nullify the effects of the Untitled
+ the mystery about Jason not being able to recognize the Untitled
+ General Grandpa
+ Outlaws going to Qurac
+ teacher interviews
+ a giant ape in a suit
+ Dog being the most beautiful, precious little furball on the planet
+ Essence

(*) I'm not a fan of the wording. I do consider Wonder Woman awesome (and I'm surprised that Jason doesn't). And Superman has a big heart - so does Bizarro. But I'd never compare them and say that one has a bigger heart than the other.
But that's a general and often reoccurring problem in superhero comics: Praising a character by putting someone else down. For this specific scene I would have liked more context. Because it also reads like Jason is a little mad at Wonder Woman and Superman.
Considering that Wally West and HiC were mentioned in the last issue, I could easily see Jason being mad at the Trinity because of what happened in the Sanctuary - a place that they designed and therefore they should take responsibility for the things that happened there.

(**) I hope we'll get more context for Artemis' harsh behavior. Currently, I think this can go two ways.
1. Artemis' is subconsciously mad at Jason because he rejected her in the last issue. We, as readers, know that both Artemis and Jason have lied at the end. We know that Jason knows that Artemis has lied. But it wasn't shown if Artemis knows the same.
It's possible that Artemis actually thinks that Jason isn't interested in her. And being rejected by someone you like hurts. The issue also shows that Jason isn't as content about the current non-relationship with Artemis as he tried to make us and himself believe at the end of the last issue.
His "I don't need her. I don't." is also a nice parallel to Jason's " I don't care! I don't ... care. I don't." from RHatO #23.
2. The Outlaws have just gotten back together - and Jason is already in a potentially deadly situation (falling off a train like that at least doesn't look very healthy.) Never mind that this could also trigger bad memories of Jason and Artemis falling in RHatO #25.
Artemis' being kind of harsh and excluding Jason from the fight is maybe her way of being a little bit too overprotective. Because in the end, Jason is the most ... "fragile" out of the Dark Trinity. It's good that this issue also shows that Jason has his rightful place on this team when he later on saves Bizarro and Artemis by nullifying the attack of the Untitled.

[Zaresh]

Jason is pretty tsundere under Lobdell.
But so is Artemis.

[Sergard]

Jason is pretty tsundere under Lobdell.
But so is Artemis.

I'm not sure if tsundere is really the right dere-type for Jason.
When I hear tsundere, I think of Asuka from Neon Genesis Evangelion - and Asuka was kind of a mean girl.
I don't think Jason was ever mean to Artemis. And I can't remember the last time Jason was mean to someone he liked (friends or family).

[Jackalope89]

I'm not sure if tsundere is really the right dere-type for Jason.
When I hear tsundere, I think of Asuka from Neon Genesis Evangelion - and Asuka was kind of a mean girl.
I don't think Jason was ever mean to Artemis. And I can't remember the last time Jason was mean to someone he liked (friends or family).

There are different levels of "tsundere", I'll say that. The most common is the over the top type, like Asuka from NGE, Louise from Familiar of Zero, etc.

The part here of Jason being tsundere (which I also saw), is him not being honest, particularly with himself, in certain parts (like claiming to not needing Artemis' or Biz's help).

The mean part, usually being violent in an over the top manner, isn't synonymous with tsundere.

[Zaresh]

I'm not sure if tsundere is really the right dere-type for Jason.
When I hear tsundere, I think of Asuka from Neon Genesis Evangelion - and Asuka was kind of a mean girl.
I don't think Jason was ever mean to Artemis. And I can't remember the last time Jason was mean to someone he liked (friends or family).

Depends on the tsundere. They can be just cold too, even if they're not mean. Or violent.
Perhaps he's a kuudere, but that doesn't fit him either, exactly.

My point is, he's the kind of person who doesn't show his weaknesses so easily, specially his emotional weaknesses; and can show himself as self-sufficient and uncaring even we know he's far from that. Even to himself. He tries to convince himself a lot. Which is how we find so many "I don't" in his narration boxes. Until he shows his "dere" side and opens to his close ones.

That being said, he's still less tsundere than Damian. Damian's case is... straighter, I guess. Way more close to the classic trope.

Edit: I was thinking about some well known character of any "recent" (relatively speaking) anime or manga that reminds me of Jason under Lobdell's pen and maybe Gray from Fairy Tail would do it. Not the same, but kind of similar? (but he's the one that I liked the most of that manga, so, well. Him and Erza). Gray isn't a tsundere, but still has some traits of one.

[chachi]

Didn't care for the art at all, but there was a lot going on in just 20 pages. Good issue story wise.

[Jackalope89]

Depends on the tsundere. They can be just cold too, even if they're not mean. Or violent.
Perhaps he's a kuudere, but that doesn't fit him either, exactly.

My point is, he's the kind of person who doesn't show his weaknesses so easily, specially his emotional weaknesses; and can show himself as self-sufficient and uncaring even we know he's far from that. Even to himself. He tries to convince himself a lot. Which is how we find so many "I don't" in his narration boxes. Until he shows his "dere" side and opens to his close ones.

That being said, he's still less tsundere than Damian. Damian's case is... straighter, I guess. Way more close to the classic trope.

Edit: I was thinking about some well known character of any "recent" (relatively speaking) anime or manga that reminds me of Jason under Lobdell's pen and maybe Gray from Fairy Tail would do it. Not the same, but kind of similar? (but he's the one that I liked the most of that manga, so, well. Him and Erza). Gray isn't a tsundere, but still has some traits of one.

Not exactly a new one (at all), but certain points in Ranma 1/2, you do see less mean/violent moments of Ranma and Akane being tsunderes. Particularly when their engagement is brought up. Of course, it does escalate (usually thanks to Ranma), but yeah.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Here

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tsundere

[Zaresh]

Here

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tsundere

Out of curiosity. I noticed the other day that two of the pages for Jason's stuff in TvTropes (Red Hood, and Red Hood and the Outlaws) are surprisingly up to date. Are you the one who's updating them? If that's the case, thanks!

[Sergard]

Edit: I was thinking about some well known character of any "recent" (relatively speaking) anime or manga that reminds me of Jason under Lobdell's pen and maybe Gray from Fairy Tail would do it. Not the same, but kind of similar? (but he's the one that I liked the most of that manga, so, well. Him and Erza). Gray isn't a tsundere, but still has some traits of one.

Funnily enough, Jason reminds me personally more of Laxus who also was antagonistic towards his family (the story arc couldn't have been more dramatic), was exiled and later on redeemed himself. Most of the times, Laxus stays in the background and has a small circle of very close friends but he always pops up to fight for his family. He's also a quiet guy. People who don't know him will probably think of him as a cold and gruff guy but his close friends understand that he's actually a very caring man. Laxus also has a very distinct clothing style since he's wearing a coat most of the times, similar to Jason being often portrayed with a signature leather jacket.

[Zaresh]

Funnily enough, Jason reminds me personally more of Laxus who also was antagonistic towards his family (the story arc couldn't have been more dramatic), was exiled and later on redeemed himself. Most of the times, Laxus stays in the background and has a small circle of very close friends but he always pops up to fight for his family. He's also a quiet guy. People who don't know him will probably think of him as a cold and gruff guy but his close friends understand that he's actually a very caring man. Laxus also has a very distinct clothing style since he's wearing a coat most of the times, similar to Jason being often portrayed with a signature leather jacket.

I could see the resemblance because of his dynamics and behaviour towards the guild and the family. But to be honest, I didn't remember him when I was trying to recall any character XD. Weird, because I remember him now just fine. I think he resembles Damian more than Jason. Gray has a melancholic feel Laxus lacks, in my opinion, but it is a shared trait with Jason, I think. And Laxus is an arrogant dude, as far as I recall, which is something Jason doesn't show often, if at all, but Damian has in spades.

I wish I remembered more about Ranma 1/2 to comment on @Jackalope89's comparison too :/.

[Sergard]

I could see the resemblance because of his dynamics and behaviour towards the guild and the family. But to be honest, I didn't remember him when I was trying to recall any character XD. Weird, because I remember him now just fine. I think he resembles Damian more than Jason. Gray has a melancholic feel Laxus lacks, in my opinion, but it is a shared trait with Jason, I think. And Laxus is an arrogant dude, as far as I recall, which is something Jason doesn't show often, if at all, but Damian has in spades.

I wish I remembered more about Ranma 1/2 to comment on @Jackalope89's comparison too :/.

In Laxus' defense - since he's my favorite character and Damian is definitely not a character I enjoy - Laxus changed a lot after his antagonist arc. He lost his arrogance and sometimes even shows a very humble side. I don't know if you have read the Tenrou Island arc (so maybe spoiler ) but when the guild fights Hades and Laxus finally makes his return, he fights Hades but later on transfers his remaining energy to Natsu so that Natsu can defeat Hades. Laxus reasons that Hades has hurt the guild and that a guild-member therefore should defeat Hades. (Afterwards there's also a very cute scene with Laxus and Lisanna, my second favorite Fairy Tail character - and also a scene where Gildarts makes fun of Laxus because he was stupid enough to get himself dispelled).

[Zaresh]

In Laxus' defense - since he's my favorite character and Damian is definitely not a character I enjoy - Laxus changed a lot after his antagonist arc. He lost his arrogance and sometimes even shows a very humble side. I don't know if you have read the Tenrou Island arc (so maybe spoiler ) but when the guild fights Hades and Laxus finally makes his return, he fights Hades but later on transfers his remaining energy to Natsu so that Natsu can defeat Hades. Laxus reasons that Hades has hurt the guild and that a guild-member therefore should defeat Hades. (Afterwards there's also a very cute scene with Laxus and Lisanna, my second favorite Fairy Tail character - and also a scene where Gildarts makes fun of Laxus because he was stupid enough to get himself dispelled).

That story arc happens before Gray's father appears, right? Just before the time... timeskip, I guess it was a timeskip. I stopped reading a bit after when the demon slayers stuff appears, so I have to had read that arc. But, pffff, to be honest, I can't remember it. I probably have the earlier parts of the manga fresher because I also used to watch the anime until they started to add original filler content (which wasn't bad, not as bad as, say, the filler for Bleach or One Piece. But still a bit too boring). And I'm sure that was before the Tenrou Island arc.

Good to know that he had a redeeming arc. That's cool. I bet I liked it (I always like those), even if I can't remember it anymore.

[Jackalope89]

Anyway, back to Red Hood; I honestly didn't know Suzie was trans.
I don't hate it or anything, just didn't see that coming. And I did laugh a bit at how nonchalant her sister was when she came into the room and saw Suzie stabbed to hell and back. Which in the long run, means that the Sue sisters won't lose their new place. Meaning Jason has allies (I don't know about friends just yet, which may be a bit soon) there with an ear to the ground.

[Zaresh]

Wasn't that kind of stated or implied back in the new 52, when she was introduced? I think I recall reading it, or guessing about it.