Nightcrawler Appreciation

[sungila]

More art from Larbesta! I dont think I posted these before.

Ah so beautiful! There's the Kurt I so often invoke...the Avalokiteśvara Bodhisattva true spectrum of my favorite hero. There's the swashbuckler of good spirit...the broad sword of loving kindness...ah, and this - this, may be why I am so naive and forgiving when it comes to critically analyzing comic books...why I silver line the dark clouds and defend the indelible spirit that I (by way of devotion) invest into nearly every Nightcrawler appearance. My heart somehow usurps my mind and I 'translate' the text unawares...until my good threadmates snap their fingers, wave their hands...and time and again set my feet back on the ground (...and still, most of me is reaching toward this beauty - so I stumble along...stubborn in my surrender).

SkaraBrae: (now I have all these new thoughts since reading that Aaron's story where Wolvie is possesed by Hell buuuut first...)

I think I am sort of in between these two views! -- that is, for me, the most significant detraction to my enjoyment of the story was the flashbacks, not the actual request in the will. It was THOSE scenes that flat-out rewrote the Kurt and Logan history/dynamic I was familiar with and sort of clumsily characterized his friendship as having this goal of "saving" Logan's soul.

On the other hand, though-- sungila, I can totally understand you not reading it that way because the premise of Kurt leaving Logan a task in his will is kind of perfect and, I think, very in-character. I could even say I would have loved every scene if my brain had supplied the words (I actually really like the idea of a wordless post-death story... hmm...). My issue was with *how it was written* and how the writing reflected on Kurt's character-- not as I know him, but what it makes him in that specific story-- specifically the way the "what you need it Jesus" flashbacks made the theme a little more narrow-visioned than it could have been. I personally think the interpretation you walked away with (which was definitely something I glimpsed, I can see the beautiful sentiment you're talking about) would have been clearer to a broader audience, and maybe even made for a better quality of story, if Kurt's characterization had been tweaked to more closely resemble Claremont's subtler (subtle! Claremont! yes I said it), non-prosthelytizing approach.

It's the sort of thing I'd write fix-it fic for, to be honest. Or, at least-- carry a modified version in my brainspace.

It's always an odd feeling when the same writer-- or even a single issue of a comic-- features both moments where you feel perfectly in sync with a character and moments where you don't recognize them (and I think there's an important difference between doing that deliberately and accidentally). I used to avoid stories like that altogether-- or even stories written by multiple writers, it's my trouble with cape comics as a genre-- but I'm coming to grips with how to enjoy this stuff. It's one of the reasons I wish Marvel had as many alternate universe stories and non-continuity oneshots as DC; it's harder for me to read a character that is a prism of different (good and BAD) writers' views when the universe/continuity asks you to believe that they are and have always been the same character, lugging the same history along even when it creates paradoxes and contradictions. It's a LOT easier for me to just pick up a hundred different AU fics or Elseworlds that deliberately portray a hundred different visions without asking me to believe that they are all the same or that one is more "real" than any other.

So here's the snapping fingers, the hand waving and the coming down to earth I was speaking about Deliberately or accidentally - are not so easy for me as a writer or reader to asses. As a literature student often times Professors would circle whole paragraphs of my essays and jot something like ('?') And I was so 'bad' that I'd even support my 'imaginings' with the most seemingly random and unrelated references...I'd sit across from my Lit & Spirituality Professor and he'd be holding my paper looking at me with sincere regret and he'd say "it's beautiful...but it's not Melville...you didn't 'find' this in 'Moby Dick' - you put it there"

I'm used to this...and I truly get your frustration with 'cape comics' - I guess I found my way around that by treating the whole primarily as a canvas rather than a completed, framed and hung gallery piece...I read comics with a palate in my mind and a wet brush in my eyes.

I am grateful. I 'know' all this is true...and I do believe that I have a tendency to 'fanfix' most things (if there's enough solid material there - if it's not Austen or X2) I have this tendancy to 'fanfix' while I read...ESPECIALLY WHEN KURT IS INVOLVED. I am not a critic, I'm an appreciator...an over appreciator perhaps...so it's good to be drawn back and encouraged to 'see what is' rather than 'what could be' which usually is my 'is'.

Hmmm, it was just soooo long before Aaron, before somebody truly cared about Kurt and took a specific interest in snatching him back from death. I have a lot of gratitude for J.Aarorn's commitment, how he slowly and who knows against what editorial odds...managed to resurrect Kurt - invoking that rogue Bodhisattva and daring to allow Kurt a singular, strong and purposeful presence...rife with possibility! Even before Kurt died...he was nearly walking dead. So yes, I have a soft and forgiving spot for Aaron's work...and for how he turned the page on Kurt's unfortunate decade without flipping all the way back to a regression of being a lovable elf, a mascot or a sacrificial lamb - essentially Aaron brought back a Kurt who could truly move forward, but not without his knowable being...for me, Aaron's Kurt is a truly resurrected man. He is and he isn't...he's becoming...and Aaron didn't put limitations on how this becoming could manifest.

Still, I'm not sure I have my feet on the ground even now...

[m.hammerman]

More art from Larbesta! I dont think I posted these before.

Mmm... Love that one. I haven't seen it before. Thanks so much for posting it!

Now for some sort of Nightcrawler news...

Well, I just read on another forum that possible blue bamfs are appearing in the new She-hulk series, at least the reader thinks its them. The story has to do with heroes and villains with magical ability possibly being suspected for the disappearance of a small town. I actually have all the She-Hulks right now. I just started going through my pile of comics I couldn't read because of college and other obligations but I haven't gotten to the She-Hulk pile yet. When I do maybe I can post some scans later.

Yeah, I read that She-Hulk issue, but wasn't quite sure what to make of it. The artist had a very "idiosyncratic" style, so the Bamfs didn't really "look" quite right, but they definitely sounded right, so... I guess it was them? I would love love love for Kurt to show up in the current She-Hulk series. It could be a fun way to get him out of the x-verse for a bit.

(now I have all these new thoughts since reading that Aaron's story where Wolvie is possesed by Hell buuuut first...)

I think I am sort of in between these two views! -- that is, for me, the most significant detraction to my enjoyment of the story was the flashbacks, not the actual request in the will. It was THOSE scenes that flat-out rewrote the Kurt and Logan history/dynamic I was familiar with and sort of clumsily characterized his friendship as having this goal of "saving" Logan's soul.

On the other hand, though-- sungila, I can totally understand you not reading it that way because the premise of Kurt leaving Logan a task in his will is kind of perfect and, I think, very in-character. I could even say I would have loved every scene if my brain had supplied the words (I actually really like the idea of a wordless post-death story... hmm...). My issue was with *how it was written* and how the writing reflected on Kurt's character-- not as I know him, but what it makes him in that specific story-- specifically the way the "what you need it Jesus" flashbacks made the theme a little more narrow-visioned than it could have been. I personally think the interpretation you walked away with (which was definitely something I glimpsed, I can see the beautiful sentiment you're talking about) would have been clearer to a broader audience, and maybe even made for a better quality of story, if Kurt's characterization had been tweaked to more closely resemble Claremont's subtler (subtle! Claremont! yes I said it), non-prosthelytizing approach.

It's the sort of thing I'd write fix-it fic for, to be honest. Or, at least-- carry a modified version in my brainspace.

It's always an odd feeling when the same writer-- or even a single issue of a comic-- features both moments where you feel perfectly in sync with a character and moments where you don't recognize them (and I think there's an important difference between doing that deliberately and accidentally). I used to avoid stories like that altogether-- or even stories written by multiple writers, it's my trouble with cape comics as a genre-- but I'm coming to grips with how to enjoy this stuff. It's one of the reasons I wish Marvel had as many alternate universe stories and non-continuity oneshots as DC; it's harder for me to read a character that is a prism of different (good and BAD) writers' views when the universe/continuity asks you to believe that they are and have always been the same character, lugging the same history along even when it creates paradoxes and contradictions. It's a LOT easier for me to just pick up a hundred different AU fics or Elseworlds that deliberately portray a hundred different visions without asking me to believe that they are all the same or that one is more "real" than any other.

The boded section was essentially my issue. I wasn't bothered by the task of hauling the piano up the mountain so much as the flashbacks that seemed to suggest (to me) that Logan's only real "problem" was not believing in god (and specifically, the "right" god), and that the entire basis for Kurt and Logan's friendship was Kurt's quest to "convert" Logan to the "correct" religion. I can also definitely see how that's not the only way to read it, but it's how it came across to me. Let me know if you ever "fix" it with a fanfic--I'd love to read it

I don't think I'd personally want Marvel to become more like DC in terms of layers of continuity, elseworlds, etc., but I see why that approach can be appealing; it does suck to be beholden to every retcon and re-write as a piece of "canon." But when Marvel continuity works well, it can be a beautiful thing.

CC can be subtle if he wants to. I think it quite depends of the artist he's working with --he always says the drawing has got a lot of influence in his writing. In the middle 80's, for example, he did great silent scenes together with JRJ, who isn't a masterful artist but can trace wonderful atmospheres.





You're quite right: sometimes it's frustrating.

That page is so gorgeous. Thanks for posting it. I understand why some people don't like John Romita Jr's art, as he sometimes falls into self-parody (in his later years especially, he seems to have a set number of "character types" that he always goes back to). But when he's "on," he's really great. The composition of this page, and the depiction of emotion, are just great.

[m.hammerman]

So here's the snapping fingers, the hand waving and the coming down to earth I was speaking about Deliberately or accidentally - are not so easy for me as a writer or reader to asses. As a literature student often times Professors would circle whole paragraphs of my essays and jot something like ('?') And I was so 'bad' that I'd even support my 'imaginings' with the most seemingly random and unrelated references...I'd sit across from my Lit & Spirituality Professor and he'd be holding my paper looking at me with sincere regret and he'd say "it's beautiful...but it's not Melville...you didn't 'find' this in 'Moby Dick' - you put it there"

I'm used to this...and I truly get your frustration with 'cape comics' - I guess I found my way around that by treating the whole primarily as a canvas rather than a completed, framed and hung gallery piece...I read comics with a palate in my mind and a wet brush in my eyes.

I am grateful. I 'know' all this is true...and I do believe that I have a tendency to 'fanfix' most things (if there's enough solid material there - if it's not Austen or X2) I have this tendancy to 'fanfix' while I read...ESPECIALLY WHEN KURT IS INVOLVED. I am not a critic, I'm an appreciator...an over appreciator perhaps...so it's good to be drawn back and encouraged to 'see what is' rather than 'what could be' which usually is my 'is'.

Hmmm, it was just soooo long before Aaron, before somebody truly cared about Kurt and took a specific interest in snatching him back from death. I have a lot of gratitude for J.Aarorn's commitment, how he slowly and who knows against what editorial odds...managed to resurrect Kurt - invoking that rogue Bodhisattva and daring to allow Kurt a singular, strong and purposeful presence...rife with possibility! Even before Kurt died...he was nearly walking dead. So yes, I have a soft and forgiving spot for Aaron's work...and for how he turned the page on Kurt's unfortunate decade without flipping all the way back to a regression of being a lovable elf, a mascot or a sacrificial lamb - essentially Aaron brought back a Kurt who could truly move forward, but not without his knowable being...for me, Aaron's Kurt is a truly resurrected man. He is and he isn't...he's becoming...and Aaron didn't put limitations on how this becoming could manifest.

Still, I'm not sure I have my feet on the ground even now...

As someone who marks a lot of literature papers... Interpretation is (obviously) a tricky thing. Although I do think that some readings/interpretations are more available than others, an infinity of interpretations are available to those willing to work harder on manipulating the text to suit their needs. My sister really hated studying literature at university because she says she didn't like to be told what she's "supposed" to get out of any given text. Which is a point of view I totally understand and sympathize with, because the study of literature is, to a certain extent, about weighing which readings are more convincing (and thus, "more right") than others.

One of the reasons I really like fanfic as a supplement and/or counterpoint to literary analysis is that it lets you actually re-write the text to suit your preferred interpretation of it, thus making more interpretations more available. The idea of the source text being a canvas waiting for the reader's brush seems like such a wonderful metaphor for fanfiction

[Sundowhn]

Yeah, I read that She-Hulk issue, but wasn't quite sure what to make of it. The artist had a very "idiosyncratic" style, so the Bamfs didn't really "look" quite right, but they definitely sounded right, so... I guess it was them? I would love love love for Kurt to show up in the current She-Hulk series. It could be a fun way to get him out of the x-verse for a bit.

OH I'd love for this to happen
/puppy eyes

[SkaraBrae]

CC can be subtle if he wants to. I think it quite depends of the artist he's working with --he always says the drawing has got a lot of influence in his writing. In the middle 80's, for example, he did great silent scenes together with JRJ, who isn't a masterful artist but can trace wonderful atmospheres.

Absolutely, and what a great example! I have to be a little tongue-in-cheek talking about CC because -- if I don't take my enthusiasm for his work very firmly in hand -- I'm afraid I'll come off as a total stan who's dismissive of every other X-book writer (I'm bemused by the fannish trend of labelling his style/stories "soap operas", because even though he tended to use more flamboyant language, surely cape comics haven't gotten any less soapy over the years).

Although I do think that some readings/interpretations are more available than others, an infinity of interpretations are available to those willing to work harder on manipulating the text to suit their needs. My sister really hated studying literature at university because she says she didn't like to be told what she's "supposed" to get out of any given text. Which is a point of view I totally understand and sympathize with, because the study of literature is, to a certain extent, about weighing which readings are more convincing (and thus, "more right") than others.

One of the reasons I really like fanfic as a supplement and/or counterpoint to literary analysis is that it lets you actually re-write the text to suit your preferred interpretation of it, thus making more interpretations more available. The idea of the source text being a canvas waiting for the reader's brush seems like such a wonderful metaphor for fanfiction

ahhhh all of this! I remember sitting at a lecture in Oxford (did I see someone say they love Old English poetry? that is so totally my jam let me sit at ur lunch table cool kid) while this guy was trying to sell us all on the idea that Jane Eyre getting hit in the head with a book and bleeding in a doorway was an elaborate metaphor for menstruation... and afterwards going directly into a meeting with a tutor who insisted that "genre" fiction couldn't be studied as literature because it will never be as complex and revelatory about the human condition as ~lit proper~. Aaaand that's about the time I decided I couldn't make it through grad school in the lib arts (my great respect for other lit profs notwithstanding!).

Fanfic, though, can be something really special-- not least because it is often built on this huge, collaborative vision of who a character is or how a story should have ended. It's no exaggeration to say that fic and the style of reading that fic inspires is having a very real impact on the publishing industry, too.

Ah so beautiful! There's the Kurt I so often invoke...the Avalokiteśvara Bodhisattva true spectrum of my favorite hero. There's the swashbuckler of good spirit...the broad sword of loving kindness...ah, and this - this, may be why I am so naive and forgiving when it comes to critically analyzing comic books...why I silver line the dark clouds and defend the indelible spirit that I (by way of devotion) invest into nearly every Nightcrawler appearance. My heart somehow usurps my mind and I 'translate' the text unawares...until my good threadmates snap their fingers, wave their hands...and time and again set my feet back on the ground (...and still, most of me is reaching toward this beauty - so I stumble along...stubborn in my surrender).

Oh, but there's something I just love about that. I can't be that kind of reader naturally, so I find it rather lovely when I'm discussing books and fannish things with someone else. I'm so Doylist that a character doesn't even become quite "real" to me until I trust the author. The less I like or "believe" a bit of canon, the less able I am to participate in "in-universe" discussions of their motivations, etc. Even stylistic flaws can bump me out of my suspended disbelief, and sometimes that's a pain.

Deliberately or accidentally - are not so easy for me as a writer or reader to asses. As a literature student often times Professors would circle whole paragraphs of my essays and jot something like ('?') And I was so 'bad' that I'd even support my 'imaginings' with the most seemingly random and unrelated references...I'd sit across from my Lit & Spirituality Professor and he'd be holding my paper looking at me with sincere regret and he'd say "it's beautiful...but it's not Melville...you didn't 'find' this in 'Moby Dick' - you put it there"

I'm used to this...and I truly get your frustration with 'cape comics' - I guess I found my way around that by treating the whole primarily as a canvas rather than a completed, framed and hung gallery piece...I read comics with a palate in my mind and a wet brush in my eyes.

I am grateful. I 'know' all this is true...and I do believe that I have a tendency to 'fanfix' most things (if there's enough solid material there - if it's not Austen or X2) I have this tendency to 'fanfix' while I read...ESPECIALLY WHEN KURT IS INVOLVED. I am not a critic, I'm an appreciator...an over appreciator perhaps...so it's good to be drawn back and encouraged to 'see what is' rather than 'what could be' which usually is my 'is'.

"Fanfix" is such a great word for it-- and I remember when I was in the Batman forums a few years ago, when I was still having a lot of angst over how to enjoy cape comics without losing my cool, that there were a few fans who always accepted everything as canon, a bit in the Morrison sense, and they'd come up with their own elaborate in-universe explanations for how this-or-that could be possible. I can't do that, myself, but I think it's a really valuable perspective.

Also the bolded bit just makes me smile. "It's beautiful... but it's not Melville" is a catchphrase to be proud of. I think some of the best fic comes from that kind of mindspace.

Hmmm, it was just soooo long before Aaron, before somebody truly cared about Kurt and took a specific interest in snatching him back from death. I have a lot of gratitude for J.Aarorn's commitment, how he slowly and who knows against what editorial odds...managed to resurrect Kurt - invoking that rogue Bodhisattva and daring to allow Kurt a singular, strong and purposeful presence...rife with possibility! Even before Kurt died...he was nearly walking dead. So yes, I have a soft and forgiving spot for Aaron's work...and for how he turned the page on Kurt's unfortunate decade without flipping all the way back to a regression of being a lovable elf, a mascot or a sacrificial lamb - essentially Aaron brought back a Kurt who could truly move forward, but not without his knowable being...for me, Aaron's Kurt is a truly resurrected man. He is and he isn't...he's becoming...and Aaron didn't put limitations on how this becoming could manifest.

This reminds me of something a fan said in the Batman forums, too, when I wasn't digging Morrison and they were trying to explain why so many fans do. They basically pointed out that reading comics for years as a hobby makes you more sensitive to when something is fresh and interesting. Like, I'm sitting here looking at this whole pile of canon looking to pull out just the best bits, the bits that fit my standards of the characters, and I'm resisting viewing it all as a linear story (because I have trouble with some of the basic principles of the "Marvel Universe" as a big singular thing, but mostly because I just loathe events like Schism and their fallout).

A lot of things that feel like big, positive shifts to fans won't show up on my radar, if only because I didn't have to slog through the crap!

While I'm thinking of non-CC takes on Kurt that I enjoyed-- what d'you think of Rucka's Kurt in the Wolverine solo? It fixed pretty much everything I didn't like about its contemporary stories (didn't it line up with Austen's run, continuity-wise? or was it post? I just know it made a "priest" reference). Kurt's "haha wouldn't it be easy if forgiveness worked that way" was a really great use of him a religious character, I thought-- the playful rebuke to Logan's "absolve me" kinda doubles as a rebuke to saint!Kurt characterizations, imo.
Screen Shot 2014-07-17 at 2.35.31 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2014-07-17 at 2.42.17 AM.jpg

Let me know if you ever "fix" it with a fanfic--I'd love to read it

I don't think I'd personally want Marvel to become more like DC in terms of layers of continuity, elseworlds, etc., but I see why that approach can be appealing; it does suck to be beholden to every retcon and re-write as a piece of "canon." But when Marvel continuity works well, it can be a beautiful thing.

I've definitely got some fic percolating. Kurt's origins are pretty tempting. I write kind of odd, short, really nature-metaphor heavy stuff, though, haha.

And when I was reading DC I envied Marvel readers, because I thought that 'verse would be less confusing. There are definite upsides to painstaking continuity-- I just wish there was more stuff along the lines of Mike Mignola having Batman battle Lovecraftian slobber-beasts.

(I must also say thank you guys SO much for all the scans of Asumus' Road Trip!-- I would have never gone looking through those Nation X anthologies of my own accord, and not only did I get to read a great little story but now I will have Logan and Kurt listening to TAL on my wall... uber pleased)

[sungila]

Somebody please clear the brimstone on these mysteries from She-Hulk #6

First these crazy BAMF sulfurous-mustard yellow smashy-sound-explosions
she-hulk-6-bamf.jpg

Then, this little BAMF looking Gremlin
image.jpg

ps...should I be excited about this? Is anybody reading the current She-Hulk? Thoughts, premonitions, illuminations, speculations, forecasts, divinations...whatzaBAMFdoinginzaSHEHULK?

[sungila]

As someone who marks a lot of literature papers... Interpretation is (obviously) a tricky thing. Although I do think that some readings/interpretations are more available than others, an infinity of interpretations are available to those willing to work harder on manipulating the text to suit their needs. My sister really hated studying literature at university because she says she didn't like to be told what she's "supposed" to get out of any given text. Which is a point of view I totally understand and sympathize with, because the study of literature is, to a certain extent, about weighing which readings are more convincing (and thus, "more right") than others.

One of the reasons I really like fanfic as a supplement and/or counterpoint to literary analysis is that it lets you actually re-write the text to suit your preferred interpretation of it, thus making more interpretations more available. The idea of the source text being a canvas waiting for the reader's brush seems like such a wonderful metaphor for fanfiction

lol. I actually loved my literature courses...even if I was a 'challenge' to most of my professors. Not cut out to teach it like my father or you though...it's that uncomfortable position of passing judgement on what's right, something that I deeply respect in those equipped to gracefully handle that responsibility, natural teachers who are able to tend flames without quenching the fire. Such a noble task - the fire keeper.

I agree with you about fanfic or fanfix being perhaps the greatest way to express, through creation, an integrated cerebral and spiritual response to comic book literature. In fact, creators are mostly graduated fans themselves. All literature is, in a way, this sort of translation...this sort of making oneself an instrument that can give song to the 'stuff' moving through.

I'm convinced I need to write fanfiction...fanpoetry...or whatever it is that seems to be overflowing my posts anyway...

This NC crew is full of inspiring writers (you included) and reading everybody's work has been deeply rewarding (far more rewarding than comics have been lately). Sometimes I feel like 'the stuff' of immortality is story...and it's just stuff...until it's told...then it's life...and every life has a story...a life without story is just 'stuff'

There's so much great 'stuff' in this NC thread...and feeling it come alive in fanfictions is exhilarating.

[sungila]

Absolutely, and what a great example! I have to be a little tongue-in-cheek talking about CC because -- if I don't take my enthusiasm for his work very firmly in hand -- I'm afraid I'll come off as a total stan who's dismissive of every other X-book writer (I'm bemused by the fannish trend of labelling his style/stories "soap operas", because even though he tended to use more flamboyant language, surely cape comics haven't gotten any less soapy over the years).



ahhhh all of this! I remember sitting at a lecture in Oxford (did I see someone say they love Old English poetry? that is so totally my jam let me sit at ur lunch table cool kid) while this guy was trying to sell us all on the idea that Jane Eyre getting hit in the head with a book and bleeding in a doorway was an elaborate metaphor for menstruation... and afterwards going directly into a meeting with a tutor who insisted that "genre" fiction couldn't be studied as literature because it will never be as complex and revelatory about the human condition as ~lit proper~. Aaaand that's about the time I decided I couldn't make it through grad school in the lib arts (my great respect for other lit profs notwithstanding!).

Fanfic, though, can be something really special-- not least because it is often built on this huge, collaborative vision of who a character is or how a story should have ended. It's no exaggeration to say that fic and the style of reading that fic inspires is having a very real impact on the publishing industry, too.


Oh, but there's something I just love about that. I can't be that kind of reader naturally, so I find it rather lovely when I'm discussing books and fannish things with someone else. I'm so Doylist that a character doesn't even become quite "real" to me until I trust the author. The less I like or "believe" a bit of canon, the less able I am to participate in "in-universe" discussions of their motivations, etc. Even stylistic flaws can bump me out of my suspended disbelief, and sometimes that's a pain.


"Fanfix" is such a great word for it-- and I remember when I was in the Batman forums a few years ago, when I was still having a lot of angst over how to enjoy cape comics without losing my cool, that there were a few fans who always accepted everything as canon, a bit in the Morrison sense, and they'd come up with their own elaborate in-universe explanations for how this-or-that could be possible. I can't do that, myself, but I think it's a really valuable perspective.

Also the bolded bit just makes me smile. "It's beautiful... but it's not Melville" is a catchphrase to be proud of. I think some of the best fic comes from that kind of mindspace.


This reminds me of something a fan said in the Batman forums, too, when I wasn't digging Morrison and they were trying to explain why so many fans do. They basically pointed out that reading comics for years as a hobby makes you more sensitive to when something is fresh and interesting. Like, I'm sitting here looking at this whole pile of canon looking to pull out just the best bits, the bits that fit my standards of the characters, and I'm resisting viewing it all as a linear story (because I have trouble with some of the basic principles of the "Marvel Universe" as a big singular thing, but mostly because I just loathe events like Schism and their fallout).

A lot of things that feel like big, positive shifts to fans won't show up on my radar, if only because I didn't have to slog through the crap!

While I'm thinking of non-CC takes on Kurt that I enjoyed-- what d'you think of Rucka's Kurt in the Wolverine solo? It fixed pretty much everything I didn't like about its contemporary stories (didn't it line up with Austen's run, continuity-wise? or was it post? I just know it made a "priest" reference). Kurt's "haha wouldn't it be easy if forgiveness worked that way" was a really great use of him a religious character, I thought-- the playful rebuke to Logan's "absolve me" kinda doubles as a rebuke to saint!Kurt characterizations, imo.
Screen Shot 2014-07-17 at 2.35.31 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2014-07-17 at 2.42.17 AM.jpg


I've definitely got some fic percolating. Kurt's origins are pretty tempting. I write kind of odd, short, really nature-metaphor heavy stuff, though, haha.

And when I was reading DC I envied Marvel readers, because I thought that 'verse would be less confusing. There are definite upsides to painstaking continuity-- I just wish there was more stuff along the lines of Mike Mignola having Batman battle Lovecraftian slobber-beasts.

(I must also say thank you guys SO much for all the scans of Asumus' Road Trip!-- I would have never gone looking through those Nation X anthologies of my own accord, and not only did I get to read a great little story but now I will have Logan and Kurt listening to TAL on my wall... uber pleased)

What a generous and brilliant post SkaraBrae – it’s really great that you’ve found us. It’s also really great to read through your post and step back to take a good look at this entire community of BAMFers – each so wonderfully unique and talented.

The graceful genius of Ricochet Rita, the passionate poetic spirit of Mutant Jinx, the romantic roguish fire of ChiaHead, the harmonious wisdom of M.Hammerman, the mystic vision of Sundowhn…each and every contributor in this special community is a gift. It’s such a wonderful testimony to Kurt…how a post from Butterfly, Pharozonk or a passing friend can penetrate beyond the discourse with good humor, brave heart or joyous celebration – every once in awhile…it’s just really great to admire the whole and know that this a truly is the ‘cool table’ with plenty of chairs and cups and bread for all.

Ah, I totally admire your perspective as a reader/artist. I’ve been told before by another writer that continuity means nothing to him…it’s the writer, not the cast…he’d also been fed up with the nearly obsessive ‘cannon’ defense that fans resorted to defend poor craft…as if ‘cannon’ were scripture.

Even saying that, however, makes me feel a bit sheepish…because I could easily be guilty of such devotion…however I’ve never bought into the ‘commandments’ of continuity and I’m grateful for fans like yourself who are so vital in challenging comics to be ‘good’…not necessary due to blind adherence – but necessary because what’s in ‘em is truly important as art and as fuel for the creative mind/spirit.

I really did enjoy Rucka’s take on Kurt & Logan’s friendship and it may be for the exact reasons you describe. It felt real and honest. There was a sense of everyday depth to that comic that is often the most rewarding. But you know…to me, it actually works well with that Aaron Weapon X issue…

Thank you for your kindness and good will and for the pat on the back. The ‘scholarly’ merit of my posts and readings should forever remain speculative – please never ask me for directions anywhere – I may get you there…but ‘there’ might not be where you were headed.

See I just lost myself…but at least I’m in good company.

[TheMutantJinx]

(did I see someone say they love Old English poetry? that is so totally my jam let me sit at ur lunch table cool kid)

You flatter me.

I like what I've read of that Rucka story, too. It's a good, balanced characterization of Kurt, and I appreciate that.

[Slicknickshady]

Fanfic can be good, i have an account and have wrote multiple stories, but i don't think it's ever a substitute for Canon. As much as i hate certain endings of shows...sadly canon is canon.

Comics are such a tricky thing. It is a bit different then TV shows cause in TV most of the time it's the same creators involved the whole run of the shows. Comics...like X-Men..It's been a long time since the original creators Stan Lee and Jack Kirby have even been involved. So if I went to Stan and asked him what his end game for Cyclops, Iceman, Jean Grey, Beast, Xavier, Magneto, and etc were...Would i be comfortable treating that as gospel like i do with Creators of TV shows and TV Characters..Probably not.

Same with Chris Claremont...when it comes to other characters. He has still wrote say Nightcrawler and Kitty fairly recently. I would view his word a little more as Gospel but not as much as say with TV shows and TV Characters.

But i guess i would still stick with fan fic cant ever be a replacement of Canon. Even if it's way better then say Canon.

[SkaraBrae]

Fanfic can be good, i have an account and have wrote multiple stories, but i don't think it's ever a substitute for Canon. As much as i hate certain endings of shows...sadly canon is canon.

Comics are such a tricky thing. It is a bit different then TV shows cause in TV most of the time it's the same creators involved the whole run of the shows. Comics...like X-Men..It's been a long time since the original creators Stan Lee and Jack Kirby have even been involved. So if I went to Stan and asked him what his end game for Cyclops, Iceman, Jean Grey, Beast, Xavier, Magneto, and etc were...Would i be comfortable treating that as gospel like i do with Creators of TV shows and TV Characters..Probably not.

Same with Chris Claremont...when it comes to other characters. He has still wrote say Nightcrawler and Kitty fairly recently. I would view his word a little more as Gospel but not as much as say with TV shows and TV Characters.

But i guess i would still stick with fan fic cant ever be a replacement of Canon. Even if it's way better then say Canon.

I feel you-- but I don't personally look at things the same way, if only because I have a different definition of "fanfiction". Honestly, the older I get and the better fic I read (BBC Sherlock fandom has some unsavory attributes as a massive internet phenomena, but some of the best writers I've come across in any medium in the past two years or so) the less I know what "canon" really means, even in mediums more supposedly clear-cut than cape comics.

If someone pressed me to pick a definition, I'd say Claremont was my only canon because he created/co-created so many characters and stories for so long. But that's still me "deciding" what canon means, which I think we all do-- even if some people get more hung up on who has the "right" definition. So "canon" VERSUS "fanfic" doesn't even make sense to me, because it's hard to compare two things when you aren't sure which is which.

I mean, when Neil Gaiman and some friend I know both write a story in which Sherlock Holmes encounters Lovecraftian tentacle beasts, which one is fanfiction? Is Gaiman exempt just because he's published with a shiny cover? Nah, man. I understand when people use "fanfiction" or "fanfiction-y" as an adjective to mean "too self-indulgent" or "with self-indulgence/wish-fulfillment as the goal over plot/quality/etc", because that true of a lot if not MOST fanfiction... but I've also read enough hundreds upon hundreds of stories now to know that the label "fanfiction" isn't an accurate way to delineate quality. I don't care about Sherlock anymore, but I do still enthusiastically follow a few fics-- because they are just that fucking good.

Surely mainstream cape comics, of all genres, has flat out transitioned from canon-making to industrialized fanfiction in many respects.

Speaking of fanwork, y'all are so charming I thought I'd share some of my doodles--
bamf 2.jpgbamf 1.jpg

[Sundowhn]

Beautiful "doodles" there!!!!!!

[Ricochet Rita]

That page is so gorgeous. Thanks for posting it. I understand why some people don't like John Romita Jr's art, as he sometimes falls into self-parody (in his later years especially, he seems to have a set number of "character types" that he always goes back to). But when he's "on," he's really great. The composition of this page, and the depiction of emotion, are just great.

They are, right? I think JRJR was specially gifted for depicting very simple but strongly 'heartbreak' moments, and CC realized it and took advantage. Please let me post only one more, although it's OOT; desolation of cold shoulder is so well portrayed!

[Ricochet Rita]

I have this tendancy to 'fanfix' while I read...ESPECIALLY WHEN KURT IS INVOLVED. I am not a critic, I'm an appreciator...an over appreciator perhaps...so it's good to be drawn back and encouraged to 'see what is' rather than 'what could be' which usually is my 'is'.

Interpretation is (obviously) a tricky thing. Although I do think that some readings/interpretations are more available than others, an infinity of interpretations are available to those willing to work harder on manipulating the text to suit their needs. My sister really hated studying literature at university because she says she didn't like to be told what she's "supposed" to get out of any given text. Which is a point of view I totally understand and sympathize with, because the study of literature is, to a certain extent, about weighing which readings are more convincing (and thus, "more right") than others.

One of the reasons I really like fanfic as a supplement and/or counterpoint to literary analysis is that it lets you actually re-write the text to suit your preferred interpretation of it, thus making more interpretations more available. The idea of the source text being a canvas waiting for the reader's brush seems like such a wonderful metaphor for fanfiction

This NC crew is full of inspiring writers (you included) and reading everybody's work has been deeply rewarding (far more rewarding than comics have been lately). Sometimes I feel like 'the stuff' of immortality is story...and it's just stuff...until it's told...then it's life...and every life has a story...a life without story is just 'stuff'

There's so much great 'stuff' in this NC thread...and feeling it come alive in fanfictions is exhilarating.

The graceful genius of Ricochet Rita, the passionate poetic spirit of Mutant Jinx, the romantic roguish fire of ChiaHead, the harmonious wisdom of M.Hammerman, the mystic vision of Sundowhn…each and every contributor in this special community is a gift. It’s such a wonderful testimony to Kurt…how a post from Butterfly, Pharozonk or a passing friend can penetrate beyond the discourse with good humor, brave heart or joyous celebration – every once in awhile…it’s just really great to admire the whole and know that this a truly is the ‘cool table’ with plenty of chairs and cups and bread for all.

That's the way I feel here, in a nice 'tea table' ;-) --you're kinda substitutes of a group of oneiric friends I used to go out in dreams...but we lost our meeting point for two times and I haven't seen them for a long :/ .

So with you I'm enjoying and learning so much! As Sungila said, reading this thread is to me far more rewarding than reading new Marvel comics --it's sad, but I'm afraid that last NC adventures, despite his resurrection, haven't really moved me. Nevertheless, conversations like this about reading/writing/interpretation/fanfic motivate me so much I'm seething because I can't find the words to take proper part!

You're great, gals and guys.

Speaking of fanwork, y'all are so charming I thought I'd share some of my doodles--
bamf 2.jpgbamf 1.jpg

They're really cute! Congratulations ^ ^ !

[From The Shadows]

I'm convinced I need to write fanfiction...fanpoetry...or whatever it is that seems to be overflowing my posts anyway...

I really think you should. Something tells me you'd really take to it.

They are, right? I think JRJ was specially gifted for depicting very simple but strongly 'heartbreak' moments, and CC realized it and took advantage. Please let me post only one more, although it's OOT; desolation of cold shoulder is so well portrayed!

You wont get any objections from me. I'm probably the biggest Romita Jr. fan on here next to you, Rita. Another gorgeous example of his talent. I know his style has changed but I think he is an underrated X-Men artist.

I LOVE that scan of Greg Rucka's Wolverine. I have read that issue over and over and is one of my favorite stories of the Kurt/Logan friendship. Now I still think that Aaron's send off was well written and in a technical way good. If I didn't know Kurt's history and the history of his friendship with Logan I'd be a lot better with it. Also, everyone has a different idea of what "canon" is. As is, writing is in the eye of the beholder and we all take away different things from it.

I'm just posting this scan because I find Nightcrawler amusing in it. This is one of the many alternate universe from Excalibur.