Nightcrawler Appreciation

[From The Shadows]

X-23 can hold her own book for more than a year, unlike Kurt. And Kitty has been around in the series for more years than Jean, despite debuting 20 years after her.

Haha, looking at your avatar you are probably like "You want to talk about getting enough spotlight?" I like Tabby.

But also, it's a Marvel Top 10 and not worth a fuss.

Yeah, I suppose. Like I said...

X-23 has been pushed for a lot of years now, and has the whole girl Wolverine thing going for her. /shrug

Laura's solo sales are in the 20's, and so were Kurt's (Gambit's too), so no, not that much difference. Marvel just decided to keep publishing Laura's. They did the same with Bobby, and his sales were significantly lower than any other solo.

I don't see the Jubilee thing, aside from they've decided to make her a new prominent face in this relaunch. That may have something to do with it. I like Jubilee, but yeah, not hitting the most popular or top X-Men pick.

You beat me to it. And on Jubilee...Could be the reason but this is a year old. It seems when there is a new character being pushed Kurt is the first to be sacrificed in these things. But as the above poster said these lists really shouldn't be consequencial. It's like when Watchmojo listed Mystique as number 2 of all time female X-Men behind Storm and not Jean, Rogue, Emma or Kitty. You know that was movie inspired. And I like Jubilee too and I would defend her if anyone said she was a bad character, which happens a lot on here. I also like X-23. I'm just going by logic. Nightcrawler is my all-time favorite but I'd never put him ahead of Storm, Cyclops and Jean on a list of influential X-Men. That would just be biased. But then, lists are... what they are.

[Sundown]

Yep, true. Jubilee had a significant influence on Wolverine (as did Laura and Kitty) but not really on the franchise. If they see Wolverine as the single character with the most impact on the franchise (disagree, though he's in the top ten), then his former trainees/sidekicks get thrown in maybe?

[sungila]

amaz-x-men-1-4.jpg
I'M JUST A DEAD MAN WITHOUT A HOME...JUST A CAPTAIN IN NEED OF A SHIP


The allure of a list.
This act, the building of an ark, the fabrication of a virtual quest, the wished for mission made to order...and yet, but even though...the backstory comes from Austen's Draco...it's still AMAZING! We must if we can and we do, regardless.

About lists, and quests, and us as audience and participant...and most importantly, about transformations teleporatitions and what's neither here nor there...not everywhere nor anywhere at all...not a place, not a person...but a stillness(ing)...that is only still in this instant of isn't..up in and of and into the smoke...ever into and out of the fire...shadow absorbent in shadow and bright in the light of radiance.

I've always loved how Kurt, when he's drawn really well in action, disturbs the panel walls and permeates them...tears down the borders for bridges that are composed of amysthst cloud or mercury motion...like rivers...or songs...or acrobatic beauty...the way of a leaf in the wind...by stem or stemless....like, hmm, like he passes through and makes a wake (remember him diving from the cliffs in Excalibur...sitting on the edge of heaven in Quest for Nightcrawler...gazing out into space aboard the Starjammer...in his bedroom getting ready to teach his first class with the BAMFs and 'no soul')
This and these and him the 'station' in the system, the performer who moves the bars even when they're up there just hanging like unsung bells...that might be and in this are already...

This and he and him, a studio backstage...a private not lasting disturbance that is like a wound in the wounding - 'left open'...even his shade of blue...his 'voice' his presence...has that catalyzing power of possibility and entrance.

Here's an interesting read about listing and lists in today's world(s) or wordlessness...
from "A List of Reasons Why Our Brains Love Lists" by Maria Konnikova; the New Yorker Dec. 2, 2013

"Once we click, lists tap into our preferred way of receiving and organizing information at a subconscious level; from an information-processing standpoint, they often hit our attentional sweet spot. When we process information, we do so spatially.

2011, the psychologists Claude Messner and Michaela Wänke investigated what, if anything, could alleviate the so-called “paradox of choice”—the phenomenon that the more information and options we have, the worse we feel. They concluded that we feel better when the amount of conscious work we have to do in order to process something is reduced; the faster we decide on something, whether it’s what we’re going to eat or what we’re going to read, the happier we become.

In the current media environment, a list is perfectly designed for our brain. We are drawn to it intuitively, we process it more efficiently, and we retain it with little effort.

And that’s just fine, as long as we realize that our fast-food information diet is necessarily limited in content and nuance, and thus unlikely to contain the nutritional value of the more in-depth analysis of traditional articles that rely on paragraphs, not bullet points."

https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annal...ins-love-lists

[Uncanny Mutie]

Poor Nightcrawler---one of the greatest X-Men EVER---hasn't been used right or used well since he was with Excalibur, and that was 20+ years ago...

[Hypestyle]

amaz-x-men-1-4.jpg
I'M JUST A DEAD MAN WITHOUT A HOME...JUST A CAPTAIN IN NEED OF A SHIP

I have yet to understand just what the bamfs are, ultimately.

[From The Shadows]

Yep, true. Jubilee had a significant influence on Wolverine (as did Laura and Kitty) but not really on the franchise. If they see Wolverine as the single character with the most impact on the franchise (disagree, though he's in the top ten), then his former trainees/sidekicks get thrown in maybe?

Yeah, I think that's more the case.

amaz-x-men-1-4.jpg
I'M JUST A DEAD MAN WITHOUT A HOME...JUST A CAPTAIN IN NEED OF A SHIP


The allure of a list.
This act, the building of an ark, the fabrication of a virtual quest, the wished for mission made to order...and yet, but even though...the backstory comes from Austen's Draco...it's still AMAZING! We must if we can and we do, regardless.

About lists, and quests, and us as audience and participant...and most importantly, about transformations teleporatitions and what's neither here nor there...not everywhere nor anywhere at all...not a place, not a person...but a stillness(ing)...that is only still in this instant of isn't..up in and of and into the smoke...ever into and out of the fire...shadow absorbent in shadow and bright in the light of radiance.

I've always loved how Kurt, when he's drawn really well in action, disturbs the panel walls and permeates them...tears down the borders for bridges that are composed of amysthst cloud or mercury motion...like rivers...or songs...or acrobatic beauty...the way of a leaf in the wind...by stem or stemless....like, hmm, like he passes through and makes a wake (remember him diving from the cliffs in Excalibur...sitting on the edge of heaven in Quest for Nightcrawler...gazing out into space aboard the Starjammer...in his bedroom getting ready to teach his first class with the BAMFs and 'no soul')
This and these and him the 'station' in the system, the performer who moves the bars even when their up there just hanging like unsung bells...that might be and in this are already...

This and he and him, a studio backstage...a private not lasting disturbance that is like a wound in the wounding - 'left open'...even his shade of blue...his 'voice' his presence...has that catalyzing power of possibility and entrance.

Here's an interesting read about listing and lists in today's world(s) or wordlessness...
from "A List of Reasons Why Our Brains Love Lists" by Maria Konnikova; the New Yorker Dec. 2, 2013



https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annal...ins-love-lists

Another thoughtful post, Sungila! You are a poet.

Looky here they actually referenced Logurt in this video. I mean they actually used the word logurt and described it as cute. He would probably blush if he knew the term is more used to describe the slash pairing, lol.

[Sundown]

I have yet to understand just what the bamfs are, ultimately.

Hmmm...long answer or short? Hahaha...I think technically they're demonic maggots (or something?) that Azazel recruited as minions by feeding them his blood. They took on his shape with that. Kurt stole them away using the same trick, and they changed alignment and went blue. Somewhere along the way, he bargained his soul with them to return to earth -- his soul, in return for a new body comprised of these little bamfs. I've wondered since if his genetic make-up has now changed. Before, he was half Azazel and associated...stuff...and half mutant with Mystique. Now his body looks the same, but is made up of something entirely different.

Functionally, they seem to work as tiny sidekicks or extensions of him. Kurt understands them, whereas I'm not sure anyone else does. They read his emotions and wishes, as well, it would seem.

@Sungila

I love those panels. They're some of my favorites from the solo.

[Sundown]

SO, where would you guys like to see Kurt land after the crossover? What do you want to see done with him, development wise (if some writer actually takes the time)?

I'd love to seem him land another on-going solo, so he can get some real development, but yeah, dunno if that'll happen.

Other than that, I want to say relaunch Excalibur, but I see two issues with that. The first is that Excalibur has only ever worked with the original cast. Any time they've tried to bring it back with others, it's failed miserably. I think those original five are in very different places now, as far as recreating the team. Second, it would take him out of the main X-Men title and put him in a satellite one, again. While the original Excalibur ended up doing almost as well as Uncanny, at the time (much to the apparent chagrin of the X-office, from what I've read), the reception of satellite titles in this day and age isn't very high. It could end up being a dangerous move as far as future use.

As far as development, I want to see his post resurrection changes addressed. I want him to actually be given strong opinions again on the fate of mutantkind and the direction of the X-Men. I'd like to see much more in the way of interpersonal relationships.

And yes, I would absolutely love to see him meet his dark counterpart somewhere along the line. :P

[Slicknickshady]

I wish he wasn’t wallpaper!

[From The Shadows]

Poor Nightcrawler---one of the greatest X-Men EVER---hasn't been used right or used well since he was with Excalibur, and that was 20+ years ago...

I think we came close to an Excalibur level Kurt during Claremont and Davis' XSE days and Aarons Amazing X-Men. Ah, every time I think Kurt is finally returning to greatness a cold bucket of water soon get's poured on my head.

SO, where would you guys like to see Kurt land after the crossover? What do you want to see done with him, development wise (if some writer actually takes the time)?

I'd love to seem him land another on-going solo, so he can get some real development, but yeah, dunno if that'll happen.

Other than that, I want to say relaunch Excalibur, but I see two issues with that. The first is that Excalibur has only ever worked with the original cast. Any time they've tried to bring it back with others, it's failed miserably. I think those original five are in very different places now, as far as recreating the team. Second, it would take him out of the main X-Men title and put him in a satellite one, again. While the original Excalibur ended up doing almost as well as Uncanny, at the time (much to the apparent chagrin of the X-office, from what I've read), the reception of satellite titles in this day and age isn't very high. It could end up being a dangerous move as far as future use.

As far as development, I want to see his post resurrection changes addressed. I want him to actually be given strong opinions again on the fate of mutantkind and the direction of the X-Men. I'd like to see much more in the way of interpersonal relationships.

And yes, I would absolutely love to see him meet his dark counterpart somewhere along the line. :P

I dunno, I would either like to see a solo and with a good premise outside him just being an X-Man going on solo missions or a complete new team outside of the X-Men. The X-Offices just don't treat him right. I rather him have a separate identity outside of being an X-Man. If its a solo book have him be like a mutant advocate that breaks-up mutant/ human disputes and try to be an ambassador to mutant/human relationships. Have Daredevil, Spider-man and Deadpool guest-star and Christian perhaps, maybe Christians son turns out to be a mutant and he needs help with it. He can be for the mutant city people what Daredevil is to Hell's Kitchen. He can maybe run a center for teens that have been disowned by their parents or exploited but don't want to become heroes. He can mentor young mutants in an urban setting and perhaps take a human child of a single mother under his wing and the child really looking up to him but maybe his mother disapproving and he later wins her over. None of this humans are all awful thing. Or with a brand new MCU team with Cloak and Dagger also on it. I don't know who else would be on it or the direction would be yet, lol.

SO MARVEL DID HAVE IT IN FOR EXCALIBUR. I said this a little while back in the Excalibur from the beginning thread. I wasn't just imaging it. It may be why we don't see Kurt considered an important X-Character at Marvel. He was too awesome and was able to survive and become a great character without the X-Men, ha! Or they were still pissed at the the Cockrum's or because it was Claremont's pet creation and they had that falling out before he left in the 90's, because the potshots in the comics weren't taken until after he left. Sure would be the reason why they dismantled the original theme and turned it into just another X-Book. They had to be put in their place. Sore losers. The current guard seems to accept their popularity maybe because so many current creators read them when they were teens/kids.

[Ricochet Rita]

RE: Amanda (or Jimaine, as I prefer)

I'm one on the minority which didn't feel annoyed because of the sibling thing, and yes, I think their break had probably much to do with editorial (and audience?) penalty. That doesn't prevent their relationship from being interesting.

In my opinion, the most accurate and honest resume of the situation was this page from the awesome series by Aguirre-Sacasa/Robertson:

[Sundown]

I agree, Rita, that series, to me, handled what was between them well.

[Anduinel]

To be fair, I think Amanda was vilified because of the whole foster brother/foster sister romance and writers wanted to beat it into the ground that the relationship is no good.

I don't think she was vilified per se, but yeah, the fact that so many post-Claremont writers kept tittering about the "joke" instead of delving into the story possibilities was just kind of eye-rolling. I get why the pairing doesn't work for a lot of folks, but I rather liked the whole messy history the two had together and all of its implications. The more we learned of Margali, the more obvious it became that she was a manipulative personality, not above using her own children to further her goals, regardless of the cost. Yet, despite being raised in the same environment (so far as we know) and by the same "mother" (who seemed to have a thing about collecting kids), Amanda and Kurt came away with very different influences. It always brought up the question of whether Kurt's nostalgia for his circus life was a idyllic as he made it seem, whether he was looking back through rose-tinted glasses, or if Margali favored him and kept him clear of the mystic side of things for some reason.

But anyway, so far as Kurt post-AoXM, I'd like to see a book more in the vein of the old Aguirre-Sacasa solo - more about a team poking their noses into the dark mystic and supernatural nooks of the Marvel U, or even just the X-Men's particular associations with it. We've got Belesco, Mephisto, Dracula, etc. and those are just the big names. There's also the issue of Kurt being a man of faith with no soul that could be explored there. It'd probably last ten issues, but it could potentially be ten fun issues.

[Ricochet Rita]

I don't think she was vilified per se, but yeah, the fact that so many post-Claremont writers kept tittering about the "joke" instead of delving into the story possibilities was just kind of eye-rolling. I get why the pairing doesn't work for a lot of folks, but I rather liked the whole messy history the two had together and all of its implications.

Agreed. A complicated history is not necessarily a bad history.

It always brought up the question of whether Kurt's nostalgia for his circus life was a idyllic as he made it seem, whether he was looking back through rose-tinted glasses, or if Margali favored him and kept him clear of the mystic side of things for some reason.

I think that Kurt's own nature made him prone to that kind of life: bohemian, tough but lively, dynamic, dramatic, shared with a wide variable diverse group of people and animals. He probably had a sincere liking for the circus, more than his siblings had.

But anyway, so far as Kurt post-AoXM, I'd like to see a book more in the vein of the old Aguirre-Sacasa solo - more about a team poking their noses into the dark mystic and supernatural nooks of the Marvel U, or even just the X-Men's particular associations with it. We've got Belesco, Mephisto, Dracula, etc. and those are just the big names. There's also the issue of Kurt being a man of faith with no soul that could be explored there. It'd probably last ten issues, but it could potentially be ten fun issues.

I would be happy enough with a GOOD creative 5-issued mini.

[sungila]

As far as development, I want to see his post resurrection changes addressed. I want him to actually be given strong opinions again on the fate of mutantkind and the direction of the X-Men. I'd like to see much more in the way of interpersonal relationships.

And yes, I would absolutely love to see him meet his dark counterpart somewhere along the line. :P

For many reasons I feel like most Nightcrawler fans would hope Kurt be spared entirely from the post X-Man the nu-Beyonder Cyclops & Wolverine campaign against the 'bad' mutants crap. Male bonding over reductive violence against an agreed upon target is the stuff of cliques, autocracies and mobs.

If it were a different world it'd be an ideal moment for a new Excalibur with Kurt as the leader. It'd make perfect sense that he'd be disillusioned after emotionally summiting in Jean's mission, crashing down into Dissembled and then at a standstill at another crossroads of 'these are our enemies, that makes us friends, lets be prepared to hurt 'them' before...blah blah blah' - remember this cycle: trauma and physical distress, spiritual crisis, separation from team, self perception of being THE ultimate failure, coma...then Excalibur...

Seems like Kurt has earned this now and that an Excalibur that defines itself from the beginning as something different and not included in all this again would be an easy sell and truly be an alternative to the many many but maybe not the majority of X-fans who want nothing to do with Dissembled again

Kurt Darkholme could easily slip into a crosstime story...so very easily...and the setting? Why the heck not make it somewhere in the brimstone, in that in-between-place they sorta both use...if there's to be a showdown or anything...swords of course and some sort of circus...if it's a team-up though? Well, they both have this HUGE soft spot for kids...

Never gonna happen...and still, it almost seems like Excalibur is so obviously needed.

I dunno, I would either like to see a solo and with a good premise outside him just being an X-Man going on solo missions or a complete new team outside of the X-Men. The X-Offices just don't treat him right. I rather him have a separate identity outside of being an X-Man. If its a solo book have him be like a mutant advocate that breaks-up mutant/ human disputes and try to be an ambassador to mutant/human relationships. Have Daredevil, Spider-man and Deadpool guest-star and Christian perhaps, maybe Christians son turns out to be a mutant and he needs help with it. He can be for the mutant city people what Daredevil is to Hell's Kitchen. He can maybe run a center for teens that have been disowned by their parents or exploited but don't want to become heroes. He can mentor young mutants in an urban setting and perhaps take a human child of a single mother under his wing and the child really looking up to him but maybe his mother disapproving and he later wins her over. None of this humans are all awful thing. Or with a brand new MCU team with Cloak and Dagger also on it. I don't know who else would be on it or the direction would be yet, lol.

SO MARVEL DID HAVE IT IN FOR EXCALIBUR.

I think Excalibur had it out for Marvel too Chia. At the very least, Claremont and Davis were intent on Excalibur being an outsider book and the punk alternative to Marvel's pop.

I do so enjoy the creative mind and playful spirit you dazzle Nightcrawler with, in gems of rough goodness and polished grace. There's a spectacular realness to your ideals Chia. And if but...and only, lol...fortunately for every given possibility there is that possibility's future becoming...regardless of what happens...it's always and anyways, happening.

I don't think she was vilified per se, but yeah, the fact that so many post-Claremont writers kept tittering about the "joke" instead of delving into the story possibilities was just kind of eye-rolling. I get why the pairing doesn't work for a lot of folks, but I rather liked the whole messy history the two had together and all of its implications. The more we learned of Margali, the more obvious it became that she was a manipulative personality, not above using her own children to further her goals, regardless of the cost. Yet, despite being raised in the same environment (so far as we know) and by the same "mother" (who seemed to have a thing about collecting kids), Amanda and Kurt came away with very different influences. It always brought up the question of whether Kurt's nostalgia for his circus life was a idyllic as he made it seem, whether he was looking back through rose-tinted glasses, or if Margali favored him and kept him clear of the mystic side of things for some reason.

But anyway, so far as Kurt post-AoXM, I'd like to see a book more in the vein of the old Aguirre-Sacasa solo - more about a team poking their noses into the dark mystic and supernatural nooks of the Marvel U, or even just the X-Men's particular associations with it. We've got Belesco, Mephisto, Dracula, etc. and those are just the big names. There's also the issue of Kurt being a man of faith with no soul that could be explored there. It'd probably last ten issues, but it could potentially be ten fun issues.

Yes!

This is such a great concept for a solo book. And yes, Aguirre-Sacasa could very well be the (once again) best creator to pen these scripts. I also really appreciate your reading of Kurt's pairing with Amanda.

For me, part of what I'm drawn to about Nightcrawler as a character is the ambiguity and sureness of him. This integrity that itself is cloudy and impossible...yet so very real. Shadows. It's all about shadows and bright sunlit eyes. And soulswords, swashbuckling, space, pirates, giant sized drama and real gravity, all paradox and round top goth freaky...etc...lol...it's not supposed to 'mean' anything...it's all born of tempest and vast ocean...out in wild blue frothing yonder.

Agreed. A complicated history is not necessarily a bad history.
would be happy enough with a GOOD creative 5-issued mini.

RR, I wish your reading of Kurt and Jimaine was the heart of their ralationship's cannon. It's rooted and sustaining and brave. And vulnerable...and most importantly...tender and trusting.

Exactly!

And yes a GOOD 5-issued mini...


I'm kind of stunned by this forthcoming solicitation...given today's image of the thought to be 'squeaky clean' male showman with a backstage full of abuse against women...and Kurt and Meagan both being vulnerable to use in this...abuse in this...way...oh, but this just feels all sorts of bad & horrible & not nearly as smart or cute or anything as it may think it is...damn.

No, no, no...why even, sigh
Really? No and especially please not Kurt and really really not Kurt and Meagan.
THIS will have an impact on who Kurt was, will be and is.

I don't like this at all. Not in presentation. And in execution...I can only hope that my curiosity kills my inhibitions and my inhibitions be swept miraculously off these too wary to turn around, shuffling backwards in retreat, feet.


It'd be nice to have a GOOD surprise for once...(like Sword is Drawn or Quest for Nightcrawler) not this, something horrible and then made into an it's okay with all the explanations and heartless 'be a good sport' back slaps...too often this modern X-office is just offensive and apologizing with more of the same super hero sized insensitivity.

Terror at the tabloids...ugh.


MTU0NTE1NDc4Mg==.jpg
AGE OF X-MAN: THE AMAZING NIGHTCRAWLER #2 (of 5)
SEANAN MCGUIRE (W) • JUAN FRIGERI (A)
Cover by SHANE DAVIS, MICHELLE DELECKI & FRANK D’ARMATA
VARIANT COVER BY EDUARDO PETROVICH
THE AGE OF X-MAN CONTINUES!

• It’s terror at the tabloids when everyone’s favorite blue X-Man has a secret!
• One that won’t stay behind the scenes much longer if he keeps this up…
• Can Kurt’s squeaky-clean public image survive an explosive affair?