Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,009

    Default Cyclops vs Black Canary

    Pre-Flashpoint Canary. Who wins?

  2. #2
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,970

    Default

    Flip a coin? I mean they’re both in the just-under-CBPH category, speed-wise probably, they both just have to think, and each could take the other out if they react first (Canary could almost certainly knock Cyke out with her sonics, and Cyke could turn her to vapour).

    That being said, I have a vague recollection from back in the 80s that the X-Men costumes came with some sort of default sonic protection, limited shock protection body armour etc. If that’s the case, it might keep Scott conscious and with non-bleeding ears long enough to GOMLZARK her.

    But that’s only if my aging brain isn’t just making **** up, which is entirely possible.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    Flip a coin? I mean they’re both in the just-under-CBPH category, speed-wise probably, they both just have to think, and each could take the other out if they react first (Canary could almost certainly knock Cyke out with her sonics, and Cyke could turn her to vapour).

    That being said, I have a vague recollection from back in the 80s that the X-Men costumes came with some sort of default sonic protection, limited shock protection body armour etc. If that’s the case, it might keep Scott conscious and with non-bleeding ears long enough to GOMLZARK her.

    But that’s only if my aging brain isn’t just making **** up, which is entirely possible.
    I'd be VERY hesitant to peg Cyclops in the same speed bracket as Canary. That said, I'm not sure how fast their relative triggers would be at equal speed.

    Also, her Sonic cry blows up cars and collapses cliffsides. Earplugs wouldn't save Scott from getting splatted.

  4. #4
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,970

    Default

    Fair enough then. I’m far from an expert on Canary.

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    4,112

    Default

    Cyclops. He sees her, she dies. He's an expert at precision, dedicated most of his life to destroying people and things in an instant. He hits her, but he'll likely get some damage from her destructive blast. The longer she survives the more damage she does to him.

    If this gets into a combat situation, which it won't, he loses instantly. She's in another league to him in martial arts.

  7. #7
    BANNED The Dork Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    5,329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    I agree that Canary is faster but faster than a GL ring scan seems a bit much, especially when Roy Harper is otherwise able to describe the action(s) in real time

  8. #8
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    13,894

    Default

    Canary is comfortably faster than Scott. Malcom Merlyn, who is a pretty damned good comic book archer, shoots two arrows at her, fast enough that both are in flight at the same time. Canary, while carrying on a conversation, casually catches the first between her palms, then reverse Robin-Hood catches the second as well, blocking it by splitting the arrow between her palms with the second one.

    This is a feat of speed beyond anything Scott has done.

    She then kicks Merlyn through a window, jumps out after him and, while beating the snot out of him mid-air, locates the parachute arrow floating in the middle of the cloud of arrows around them as they fall (Merlyn stole Ollie's bow and arrows), grabs it, and deploys it.

    Let's break that down.

    1. She kicks him out of the window, then jumps after him fast enough that she's still in combat range.
    2. She's beating him up mid-air.
    3. She then locates one arrow in the middle of a cloud of arrows around them, snags it, and deploys the parachute.

    This in CBPH speed territory, frankly, and I don't really see a problem putting Canary in the same range as the 'in the ballpark of Batman at least' crowd for speed.

    In this case, starting at 100', we have a faster person with a weaker 'beam' attack. Canary CAN attack at 100' with her cry, but Scott's attack will be more accurate and powerful (also area affecting).

    It's possible Scott manages not to die from her attack and gets off his own attack, which WILL erase her if he goes for a more wide-beam attack.

    Hard one, here.
    Why are we here?

    "Superboy Prime (the yelling guy if he needs clarification)..." - Postmania
    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
    "Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,311

    Default

    Again, she's collapsed cliff sides with it. Scott ain't surviving that. His chance basically hinges on firing a beam being relatively easier to do then inhaling screaming at the faster person.

  10. #10
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    13,894

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Again, she's collapsed cliff sides with it. Scott ain't surviving that. His chance basically hinges on firing a beam being relatively easier to do then inhaling screaming at the faster person.
    Canary HAS collapsed cliffs, but it's never presented as something she just spits out (they strapped her to the front of an airplane, and she was pretty specific it would take everything she had, if it's the scream I'm thinking of). It's more of a 'REALLY inhales and lets loose with everything', and despite her greater speed I can't see her doing that before Scott twitches his thumb in a specific fashion.

    If she wants to win the quickdraw, I'm thinking she needs to just spit out one of her more normal level cries, which ends up being 'can stop a speeding van like it ran into a wall', 'smash-up/flip over a jeep' and so forth, but such things are more 'close-range' stuff unless someone has feats for it otherwise (maybe I'm forgetting something). Alternately, she has fired off 'sonic beam' style attacks that easily make the 100', but those are targeted and gives Scott more of a chance to at least try to dodge or cut down on the amount of damage he takes while returning fire.
    Why are we here?

    "Superboy Prime (the yelling guy if he needs clarification)..." - Postmania
    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
    "Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Canary HAS collapsed cliffs, but it's never presented as something she just spits out (they strapped her to the front of an airplane, and she was pretty specific it would take everything she had, if it's the scream I'm thinking of). It's more of a 'REALLY inhales and lets loose with everything', and despite her greater speed I can't see her doing that before Scott twitches his thumb in a specific fashion.

    If she wants to win the quickdraw, I'm thinking she needs to just spit out one of her more normal level cries, which ends up being 'can stop a speeding van like it ran into a wall', 'smash-up/flip over a jeep' and so forth, but such things are more 'close-range' stuff unless someone has feats for it otherwise (maybe I'm forgetting something). Alternately, she has fired off 'sonic beam' style attacks that easily make the 100', but those are targeted and gives Scott more of a chance to at least try to dodge or cut down on the amount of damage he takes while returning fire.
    The problem is Scott just has human durability. Even if we take that van feat and only 1/4 the force it would at least KO Scott. This is off course assuming Dinah attacks first.

  12. #12
    Mighty Member Shai-Hulud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    His chance basically hinges on firing a beam being relatively easier to do then inhaling screaming at the faster person.
    This was my first thought.

    However, Scott usually can't fire his beams at will. There are times when he's cured and his beams are controllable, so all he has to do then is think 'fire.' In these rare cases, he's already looking at her, and even if she's CBPH, he's still highly trained and very fast. I think he'd win the draw here. But this match isn't cured Scott, it's default Scott.

    Default Scott can't shut his beams off, so he needs a mechanism to open the visor. This is either a finger tap on a concealed pressure point in his gloves (like Spidey's web-shooters), or actually raising his hand to the side of his visor and depressing a button.

    Standard equipment he gets the Spidey button. Very fast, but slower than just an act of will.

    So I'd bet on Canary to win the fast draw on that basis. CBPH inhales and screeches faster than highly-trained-next-level-down-human can press his Spidey-button.
    Last edited by Shai-Hulud; 02-26-2020 at 10:46 AM.

  13. #13
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,421

    Default

    Default Scott can't shut his beams off, so he needs a mechanism to open the visor. This is either a finger tap on a concealed pressure point in his gloves (like Spidey's web-shooters), or actually raising his hand to the side of his visor and depressing a button.
    I believe at one point they said he had some sort of Shi'ar mentally controlled thing in his visor, but I don't know if the X-men even use Shi'ar tech anymore.

  14. #14
    Mighty Member Shai-Hulud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I believe at one point they said he had some sort of Shi'ar mentally controlled thing in his visor, but I don't know if the X-men even use Shi'ar tech anymore.
    This I never heard of before, but if true, and current, it's a big difference in a rumble where split-seconds are an issue.

    Certainly, just thinking 'fire' is faster than having to go through the motor process of pressing a Spidey-button.

    The second point would be the response time of the device itself. A Shi'ar visor built for combat would likely have a mechanism that opens and shuts at such a blindingly fast rate (given their level of tech advancement) as to be negligible to the duel (I would assume).

    Also add in that Scott doesn't really even need to aim. Canary starts out standing right in front of him, and his eyes are already focused on her from the onset.

    Is Canary a verified bullet-timer, or just Batman-fast? From the above, sounds like just the latter.
    Last edited by Shai-Hulud; 02-27-2020 at 06:33 PM.

  15. #15
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    13,894

    Default

    In no way is Canary a bullet-timer; nor is she faster than Bruce.

    One might make the case that, speed-wise, she's at least edging into the same area as Bruce and Nightwing, but that's the best she can get.
    Why are we here?

    "Superboy Prime (the yelling guy if he needs clarification)..." - Postmania
    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
    "Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •