X-Men #7 SPOILERS

[gurkle]

yet still canon, what a shame

I'm actually curious, would you stop liking a character if a writer gave them a really bad line of dialogue?

I know we all have our limits as to how far we will go in saying that something is out of character, but I don't think I've met anyone who just stopped liking a character on the basis of a badly written story, however, that doesn't mean they don't exist. Maybe there are people who liked Rogue until she started to enjoy being an Avenger (under Duggan) and then hated her. I don't know.

[JB]

This Wanda debate has grown tedious I swear if the retcon is undone some of y'all are going to be sick when they absolve her and invite her to Krakoa.

I'm fully in favor of that or any kind of resolution, and I think Hickman is going to give us one. Or just make it worse.

[Rosebunse]

We have super humans and villains that can do the same, and of course that was addressed in Civil War and continues to be with Outlawed and what not. The difference though is that mutants are, whether we like the story or not, being hunted for being born different.

And that is wrong, but to pretend that some of them aren't just dangerous is wrong. And again, it makes me wonder what you're trying to sell me.

Looking forward to seeing Fantomex show up, who I believe is immune to religion. Hopefully he rocks up, shrugs his shoulders, joins in for an orgy or two and then decides to get the hell out of dodge before his sentinel relatives arrive.

I do have my questions about Fantomex, especially since Xavier hasn't brought him back.

Wanda was of sound mind here and recalls this. She made a choice here.

Yeah, I'm still not entirely sure of that, especially when she even says here she was desperate from losing her children.

[Journey]

Tell that to...literally every religion. Then get back to us on how that went for ya.

Touche, but most religions have centuries of history and devotion behind them, starting one from scratch is kind of cult behavior just a fact.

[zinderel]

No, but part of what makes it a good metaphor is that it means more than one thing at the same time. Mutants are an oppressed minority, but what makes them an oppressed minority is that they have power inherent in what makes them a minority.

The book has long since moved beyond the original premise which had Magneto wanting to conquer all humanity in the name of his master race and Xavier going, essentially, "the humans will like us if we stop the evil mutants from killing them." But it's still part of the premise that mutants have power and that Xavier's dream was partly about what superpowered people owe to the less powerful.

To me what makes it a good metaphor is that it illuminates more than one thing. Like, yes, M-Day is horrific because we see people lose what made them a people and forced to conform to someone else's idea of "normal." But it's also about the fact that suddenly losing privilege (which is what the majority of mutant powers are) can actually be traumatic and it doesn't matter whether the privilege was earned or not.

Sure, I see that. It’s gone from being a safe fantasy about revolution made for the majority to representing a win for a minority AGAINST that majority, and that’s scary.

Doesn’t make it a bad allegory, as I go into in the REST of the post that you left out.

[Ferro]

And that to me is exactly the reason why the mutants are afraid of her. For her, loss of control could mean the end of an entire people and they've already experienced it once.

and she literaly came out of it squeaky clean, everyone forgot about it , no one outside mutants holds her acountable and shes on the earth mightest heroes.
the mensage it sends is this : you can do what she did as a human and get no consequences, and she can do it again protected by the heroes of humankind

[LordUltimus]

Also, the Tom King Vision mini established he was brainwashing his wife into forgetting her kids, breaking her mental state.

[JB]

And that is wrong, but to pretend that some of them aren't just dangerous is wrong. And again, it makes me wonder what you're trying to sell me.

Who is pretending that some aren't dangerous? You said that you agreed that perhaps they should be controlled because some are dangerous. I'm saying that could be said about all super-powered beings, so why specifically mutants?

[Knives]

Human cult vs mutant cult? Of course, there are differences… but in the ways that matter?

Look for me when Krakoa and the mutants start trying to eradicate the human species or kill human childrens .

Mutants europa massacre.jpg

[Ferro]

I'm actually curious, would you stop liking a character if a writer gave them a really bad line of dialogue?

I know we all have our limits as to how far we will go in saying that something is out of character, but I don't think I've met anyone who just stopped liking a character on the basis of a badly written story, however, that doesn't mean they don't exist. Maybe there are people who liked Rogue until she started to enjoy being an Avenger (under Duggan) and then hated her. I don't know.

wanda could get the cassandra cain/stephanie brown package treatment, and i would find a way to make "ding dong the witch is dead" chart in 50 countries and billboard top 100

[ExodusCloak]

She cast her spell over billions of souls

[ExodusCloak]

And that is wrong, but to pretend that some of them aren't just dangerous is wrong. And again, it makes me wonder what you're trying to sell me.

I do have my questions about Fantomex, especially since Xavier hasn't brought him back.


Yeah, I'm still not entirely sure of that, especially when she even says here she was desperate from losing her children.

She showed enough rationale to seek out this force, and enough reason to figure out that Dr. Strange would not help her because it was dark magic. She was calculating and showed no signs of psychosis at this point

She was desperate sure but not insane. And she made a choice and everyone else lived or died with those consequences

[Journey]

and she literaly came out of it squeaky clean, everyone forgot about it , no one outside mutants holds her acountable and shes on the earth mightest heroes.
the mensage it sends is this : you can do what she did as a human and get no consequences, and she can do it again protected by the heroes of humankind

And Apocalypse can end nations, Sinister can do all sorts of evil ****, Exodus can murder gods, Fucking Selene has committed atrocities against humans and mutants, and all of them are living on Krakoa completely protected with no consequences what's the difference?

[JB]

and she literaly came out of it squeaky clean, everyone forgot about it , no one outside mutants holds her acountable and shes on the earth mightest heroes.
the mensage it sends is this : you can do what she did as a human and get no consequences, and she can do it again protected by the heroes of humankind

True. She gets to wear an Avengers badge, is seen on television as a hero. That is scary to those that suffered from her spell which we can all agree spiraled down into very dark places.

[zinderel]

Touche, but most religions have centuries of history and devotion behind them, starting one from scratch is kind of cult behavior just a fact.

Literally every religion started from scratch, got called a ‘dangerous cult’ by the former status quo, then became the new status quo.

Literally every religion starts off as a ‘dangerous cult’. It’s what adherents of that religion do once they come to power that makes them ‘good’ or ‘bad’.

Lutherans were a dangerous cult when they broke off from Catholicism. Modern Lutherans tend towards progressivism and embrace social good, so they are ‘good’ now.

Scientology was a dangerous cult when they formed from reading groups studying Hubbards nonsense rantings. Modern Scientologists engage in harmful behavior and abuse their adherents as well as anyone who questions them, so they are ‘bad’.

We know nothing about the mutant religion yet. Not it’s sacraments, not it’s practices, not it’s message or focus. So to assume ‘dangerous cult’ is to play into the mindset of every oppressor throughout all of human history.