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  1. #511
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    Apocalypse is a mutant, yes?

    Apocalypse is one of the oldest living mutants, yes?

    Apocalypse has lived through numerous...well, ‘apocalypses’...yes?

    Apocalypse has seen, over 6,000+ years, the nature of mankind, and likely knows them better than anyone alive, yes?

    Apocalypse is on a council that votes, yes?

    Apocalypse is not the only voice that matters on that council, yes?

    In summary, I meant what I said. Mutants are defining themselves. Apocalypse is the Crucible. He is the ‘scariest’ mutant alive to most mutants. Swallowing that inherent fear - and facing fear of death - makes them stronger. Mutants are defining themselves on their own terms, not on those of the oppressor.

    You want to see the mutant race continue defining themselves by their relationship to their abusers and oppressors. I am loving that we finally get to see them no longer doing so.

    Guess we’ll keep reading the same books and experiencing them in different ways. *shrug*
    I read it in a similar way, reclaiming something that was imposed on mutants by humans (death) and reclaiming what was taken (their powers) all in one battle where melody showed how strong, how determined she is.
    she took her death and rebirth into her hands and went into death not in sadness or pain, but in Honor and power.
    I love the Idea mutants who are so aquainted with death in mass, have turned it into a test.

  2. #512
    Mighty Member zinderel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Is it only Apoc meting out death to the pre-Ms ,or do you think Magneto and Exodus have their turn? I wonder if only high council can take part in the crucible.
    I feel like Apocalypse being the Crucible, himself, is most fitting. Of all mutants, he is the one most focused on ‘fitness’. On struggle leading to strength. He is also the most comfortable with death and resurrection, being ANCIENT Egyptian and having undergone a similar process himself, several times in his long life. He is the boogeyman for most mutants in the way Magneto is for most humans, so summoning the courage to not only face that boogeyman but fight him to the death for a chance at regaining what was stolen? It won’t be for every mutant, but for those who DO choose it, I can see how they would come through it both stronger in will and more devoted to the new ideals of their people.

    Plus, Apocalypse gets to be intense and too much and just enough, and it suits him. .

  3. #513
    Incredible Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Hope, she's even resurrecting people.
    So the rest are her disciples.

  4. #514
    Fantastic Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Welp, that's Disney's and Bendis' fault. Life's ruff.
    I dont think that she is going to be the villain.

  5. #515
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    Krakoa is infected, and its going to be bad.

    Brace yourselves.

    I wish the dialogue was better. Im not getting the voice of the characters.

  6. #516
    Incredible Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    Apocalypse is a mutant, yes?

    Apocalypse is one of the oldest living mutants, yes?

    Apocalypse has lived through numerous...well, ‘apocalypses’...yes?

    Apocalypse has seen, over 6,000+ years, the nature of mankind, and likely knows them better than anyone alive, yes?

    Apocalypse is on a council that votes, yes?

    Apocalypse is not the only voice that matters on that council, yes?

    In summary, I meant what I said. Mutants are defining themselves. Apocalypse is the Crucible. He is the ‘scariest’ mutant alive to most mutants. Swallowing that inherent fear - and facing fear of death - makes them stronger. Mutants are defining themselves on their own terms, not on those of the oppressor.

    You want to see the mutant race continue defining themselves by their relationship to their abusers and oppressors. I am loving that we finally get to see them no longer doing so.

    Guess we’ll keep reading the same books and experiencing them in different ways. *shrug*
    Wow. Excellent post!

    Yeah, the more readers keep trying to have their favorite mutant act like humans, the more they are going to be out of synch with what Marvel and Hickman are doing here.

    It's almost a fictional initiation into experiencing something truly "other"... and we are left with the choice of accepting or rejecting what we see as "other."

  7. #517
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    I hope not. Kurt’s faith in a religion that has actively oppressed minorities and committed atrocities has long been one of my least favorite aspects of his character. Not saying it’s bad or good, objectively, just that I am over it and have been for a long time. Krakoa getting its own spiritual/religious tradition is important to cementing their status as a genuine nation, unlike Genosha, which was more like a large scale refugee camp. I hope to see more mutants rally behind the concept of abandoning the human faiths that, along with human culture, have failed mutants again and again and again.

    I loved this issue, as I am loving everything about this new Status Quo. I love how it isn’t perfect, how flaws are very visible, how certain elements are troubling and even a little offputting, both to us and to the characters themselves. I am loving High Priest ***[A]***, and the more I see of him, the more I think he might...actually be genuine in his support of Krakoa. Not that I don’t think he has plans of his own, but I think he really is fully in support of this new beginning. The concept of Crucible weirdly makes sense to me, as a long time fan of Sci-Fi/Fantasy and a RPer. The idea of a people who has conquered death choosing to make that conquest a thing to be earned, is perfectly ‘reasonable’, from that perspective. It doesn’t make sense to us, because we haven’t conquered death. But to them, those willing to fight to reclaim their place in society allows Crucible to provide both a powerful statement of solidarity for the species and sense of fierce defiance for those who have lost their place in the world thanks to the madness of Wanda. I’m very curious about what Warlock’s presence (and subsequent hiding from Scott...) means, and I’m happy to see that the thread of Doug infecting(?) Krakoa hasn’t been dropped or ignored. I am still enjoying the seeming hints at a poly setup, and see it as akin to the subtext between Rictor and Shatterstar in old X-Force, especially given the scene in GSXM:J+E in which Jean and Scott walk hand in hand to the Krakoa gate, then Jean moves to slogan and kisses his cheek. That coupled with Scott and Logan seemingly flirting this issue made me grin a lot more than expected. As a long time fan of Drag and it’s roots in transgressing heteronormativity in an effort to break down preconceived notions and prejudices, I am loving these little ‘screw the old ways that don’t even work for the humans that demand we follow them’ moments. It’s both needed in the fictional world we are reading, and in OUR world, and if X-Men helps start or give nuance to the conversation, I’m down.

    Of course, the hot takes comparing all of this to a cult or Nazism are ever-present and as ridiculous as ever, and this is all imma say about them:

    I love that literally every complaint/conspiracy theory/‘mistake’ people railed about in the beginning have been or are being addressed - just like anyone who has ever read a comic before knew they would be - and that Hickman is doing his thing and not bothering to make room for the naysayers. This is the direction things are going. This is forward movement. We are no longer in the old ‘hates and fears’ era, nor are we in the ‘well, it’s Wednesday, so that must mean the humans are trying to genocide us again...’ rut of the last decade or so. We are in a new era, a strange new world, if you will, and if it’s not for you, fine. Move on. I’m sick of seeing the minority allegory called Nazis for daring to unify and stand up to their oppressors. I’m sick of seeing the efforts of the oppressed to push back against both hatred and fear AND complacent ignorance characterized as ‘cultish’ or ‘Nazi-like’. It’s tired. It’s myopic. It’s ignorant. It’s exhausting. And the pushback and performative outrage has been categorically disproven again and again. How people can call themselves fans and then work SO HARD to only see the worst of a new situation is mind-boggling and deeply disturbing.

    This is fiction. This is sci-fi. These are characters who have been pushed to the brink of extinction again and again. These are characters with a long and complicated relationship with death, and for the first time, they have a shot at being on TOP of that relationship instead of always being ground under the wheels of the inevitable. This is progress, for them. Is it scary, kinda. Is it ethically questionable? Maybe. Does it make sense given EVERYTHING that has come before and the new status quo under which they are currently operating? Absolutely.
    this was a 5 out of 5.


  8. #518
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Miller View Post
    Krakoa is infected, and its going to be bad.

    Brace yourselves.

    I wish the dialogue was better. Im not getting the voice of the characters.
    warlock has always been the solution vs technorganic infection, is a self friend

  9. #519
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Kurt's faith is such an important part of his character I don't think even Hickman could change it without getting some major backlash.
    I would argue to you that much of his character is being religious, not necessarily Catholic. He is not like Daredevil in which things like "Catholic guilt" and Catholic things like churchs, priests and nuns are central parts.

    The moments when Kurt has been most prominently Catholic are stupid plots like Chuck Austen's.

  10. #520
    Fantastic Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    cause shes an avenger hence untouchable, using her as propaganda is a very smart move
    That only can create fanatism, a mutant society is forgiving everyone except the one with the largest crime, make Mutants Human.

    I dont think that is presented as smart move or something healthy and charles is the main responsible for this.

  11. #521
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsus View Post
    That only can create fanatism, a mutant society is forgiving everyone except the one with the largest crime, make Mutants Human.

    I dont think that is presented as smart move or something healthy and charles is the main responsible for this.
    How can he be Charles? It is so ridiculous…

  12. #522
    Fantastic Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    The main problem for me isnt the crucible itself, is not even Kurt discussion is the undertones of everything they are doing.

    They are building something, but is it good ?? i dont know, but now i only see an indoctrination that evokes prejudice at worst. They are fueling something that i don know how is going to be resolve.

    Apocalypse and Exodus speeches tells you everything an even the complains seems unwanted.

    I am interesting in the book, i cant take that from Hickman but i have my doubts in how the resolution would be.

  13. #523
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    I loved this issue. For the first time I was actually questioning my own faith in the X-men, and I love that feeling. Not knowing if this is a good or bad thing, loving all these characters and
    wondering where this is going to go and just the convo with Kurt and Scott was so good. This all felt very weird,and that was awesome!

  14. #524
    Incredible Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    Every issue since after #2 has been fantastic. So much for thought. Nightcrawler is starting the Cardinal thing already. I wonder if he'll shtump Jean too like CC intended or if Sinister will mix their dna.
    Apocalypse denying depowered mutants the resurrection protocols calls back to him rejecting the idea of a kill no mutant law but also refusing to help the twins from Excalibur because they died at their own hands. Perfect little detail. I cant wait for Wanda to get dragged in this bitch ngl.
    Gracious, isn’t Jean busy enough at the moment?

  15. #525
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    I loved this issue. Kurt and Scott’s conversation felt very in character. We’ve been wondering when the X-Men would start questioning Krakoa practices and this was it. The test of Crucible is awesome too and having Apocalypse be the one to administer it was great. Very “Survival of the Fittest”.

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