X-Men #7 SPOILERS

[Rosebunse]

I never read books with Krakoa as explicit villain,but remember like Krakoa feeds on mutant energy, that would mean as much as Krakoa provides all these goodies to mutants,it's some sort of Logan's run/Giver/Matrix society structure to keep them dependent on it, and maybe it needs them to survive but they don't.If this is true Krakoa will someday bare it's fangs.

I don't get why more fans aren't concerned about this. Krakoa is repeatedly stated to be more than a plant or lump of rock. Heck, we saw how dangerous that little bit of it in Aaron's run could be, now we have a large island that has all the mutants it wants.

It's worth bearing in mind that Krakoa as a mutant refuge/nation/X-Man seems to have come out of Moira's 9th life as Apocalypse's consort, which I think will come to the fore as a plot-point as this era of X-history advances. All we're seeing (and reacting to) is how the leadership of Xavier and Magneto is changing the mutant paradigm, but we should never forget that all of this is Moira's plan, based on her memories of what does and does not work, and the closest she ever came to ensuing Mutant survival was when she had En Sabah Nur as her point-man.

I'm fairly sure that we'll discover there was a lot more in that memory crystal Moira absorbed at the end of Life 9 than just the origin of Nimrod, maybe even the stored memories of 'her' Apocalypse, just waiting to be downloaded into a fit, young body or, alternately, passed on to the current Apocalypse when and if needed.

Moira's plan is for mutantkind in general and mutantkind's ideological leaders in particular to come together as a unified whole with Krakoa as a sovereign base, but that doesn't necessarily mean she intends Xavier and Magneto to be the guys in charge when the fit hits the shan. Who's Krakoa's big, blue bestie again?

I don't think Moira really likes Apocalypse, or at least 616 Apocalypse. She seems to see him as an idiot.

[Triniking1234]

So? The discrimination being done in full display of everyone or in the back of all Kraked with only an handfull of them being aware of it, isn't relevant here.

The fact that said discrimination is happening at all is what's relevant.

That ban of the precogs absolutely is discrimination against them.
The act of Crucible barring the Depowered from what is rightfully theirs is also a form of discrimination against them.

As readers aware of those pieces of information, why wouldn't we discuss this as a result?

Not really. The population already know that the resurrection process is reserved for mutants who ages ago and current X-Men who die in battle. Some mutants that got depowered and died probably still aren't back yet since they're resurrecting in chronological order so why allow mass suicides so a million mutants can get their powers back when there are still millions of other murdered mutants to resurrect. The Crucible is obviously the X-Men's ritual to enthanize the depowered mutants, make sure they're ready to accept death and allow them to get instantly queued for regeneration.

[Nullviahomo]

I don't think Moira really likes Apocalypse, or at least 616 Apocalypse. She seems to see him as an idiot.

In Life 9 she was basically the Bride of Apocalypse and he was willing to die just to make sure that she could make a better go of it in her 10th Life. I haven't got the issue at hand but doesn't she refer to 616 Apocalypse in her journals as a 'child' version of what she knows Apocalypse can be? An unsubtle hammer trying to force mutantkind into a hole marked 'Worthy', rather than a sophisticated Father to His People.

Isn't it interesting that [A] has been acting so much more cultured, patient and 'fatherly' since coming to Krakoa? It's almost like someone knew what was coming and had a quiet word with him, isn't it?

[JB]

In Life 9 she was basically the Bride of Apocalypse and he was willing to die just to make sure that she could make a better go of it in her 10th Life. I haven't got the issue at hand but doesn't she refer to 616 Apocalypse in her journals as a 'child' version of what she knows Apocalypse can be? An unsubtle hammer trying to force mutantkind into a hole marked 'Worthy', rather than a sophisticated Father to His People.

Isn't it interesting that [A] has been acting so much more cultured, patient and 'fatherly' since coming to Krakoa? It's almost like someone knew what was coming and had a quiet word with him, isn't it?

He did sit pondering for a while during the first celebration. Many of us thought he was just sad but it seems he was deep in thought. You may be onto something.

[Zelena]

Not really. The population already know that the resurrection process is reserved for mutants who ages ago and current X-Men who die in battle. Some mutants that got depowered and died probably still aren't back yet since they're resurrecting in chronological order so why allow mass suicides so a million mutants can get their powers back when there are still millions of other murdered mutants to resurrect. The Crucible is obviously the X-Men's ritual to enthanize the depowered mutants, make sure they're ready to accept death and allow them to get instantly queued for regeneration.

Except that, in a battle, usually, your goal is not to seek death.
Apocalypse intends Krakoa to be, ultimately, a nation of kamikazes.

[BroHomo]

I don't get why more fans aren't concerned about this. Krakoa is repeatedly stated to be more than a plant or lump of rock. Heck, we saw how dangerous that little bit of it in Aaron's run could be, now we have a large island that has all the mutants it wants.

Maaaaaaybe Because KraKoa hasn’t been a ‘villain’ in 30 years

[People Of The Earth]

You mean you'll feel safer/ok with someone possessing a weapon they know NOTHING about, Or has ever even seen before Over a person with a flame thrower and an ex wife who was a pyromaniac?

I'll admit, I have no clue how that comparison is supposed to work so if you could explain exactly what you were entailing here? That'd be appreciated, thanks.

That seems incredibly irresponsible, Almost as irresponsible as they Earths most Hypocritcal Heroes, going to space to eFF with the PF in the first place. But the outcome tells more than any poster ever could. Cyclops and the P5 improved the living conditions of a vast number of HUMAN beings but Cyclops was the cause of the accidental death of Xavier.

Also, this. I'm only discussing both characters because Lucyintheskies made a parallel between them that I disagreed with, and I explained why.
I'm not interested in discussing what they did while being Under those entities dominion, that was not the point of my argument.

While Wanda....well. she ended mutants across multiple timelines, erased whole communities

Case in point. If you want to compare the deeds who happened in both cases, you have to go all the way and do it, not cherrypick the supposedly good deeds from one side, and the bad ones from the other. And if I were to indulge in doing this, it would spiral into another discussion of its own, So nope.

What would be so wrong with that? Humanity had our turn and we haven't been exactly planning for the long stay. I mean we can't even keep our Glaciers cold. Humanity kinda reminds me of the way some people who are used to have 100% of the power/things go smoothly for them Cry foul when it looks like their power/monopoly of the world is starting to Ebb.

Well first, mutants are a part of Humanity too, eventhough they consider themselves as above it/not part of it - they ARE Humans.
So if Humanity is to be blamed here, the mutants should shoulder their part as well, like all the other humans on the planet.
And secondly, I Don't mind mutantkind deciding they are to be the boss of everyone on the world, what I do mind (and I think, what a lot of other people as well) is the X-Men's involvement/role in this, when they are supposed to stand for equality between sapiens and mutants, not domination from one onto the other.
They shouldn't spearheading this if they were still true to their ideals, but that's obviously not the case anymore and that's what most people find concerning.
They are the X-Men, not the Acolytes...

[Nullviahomo]

Except that, in a battle, usually, your goal is not to seek death.
Apocalypse intends Krakoa to be, ultimately, a nation of kamikazes.

Possibly worth bearing in mind, back in POX Hickman gives us one of those quotation pages he does where he has Apocalypse saying "If you can find it in you to survive - if you are worthy - then I will make you something more than them. Something Eternal", alongside tags for Horsemen and the Krakoan [A] symbol he's now using as his name.

Is this what he said to Life 9 Moira? Maybe, but it's definitely what he says to his Horsemen, and it's very similar to his phrasing around the Crucible ritual. Grown-up Apocalypse seems to have gone beyond the traditional four Horsemen, he's recruiting an Army.

Also, I'll have to check, but given the placing of that quotation I'm wondering where 616 Apocalypse got the idea from to use the [A] symbol as his name, and if Life 9 Apocalypse ever did.

[Nullviahomo]

He did sit pondering for a while during the first celebration. Many of us thought he was just sad but it seems he was deep in thought. You may be onto something.

Given Hickman's trick of packing a whole motherlode of information and whatnot into every issue I wouldn't be surprised if every single panel in every single issue had a full page of Notes alongside it to make sure the artist knew exactly what the characters are trying to convey and why. Frex, I'm still wondering why Jean Grey appears to have blue eyes in a couple of panels back in HOX#1 and if it's something to do with every single X-Man having been killed in the immediate aftermath of Rosenberg's run and resurrected by Xavier in a more 'compliant' frame of mind*

*This may or may not be an exaggeration and/or a joke.

[Veitha]

In Life 9 she was basically the Bride of Apocalypse and he was willing to die just to make sure that she could make a better go of it in her 10th Life. I haven't got the issue at hand but doesn't she refer to 616 Apocalypse in her journals as a 'child' version of what she knows Apocalypse can be? An unsubtle hammer trying to force mutantkind into a hole marked 'Worthy', rather than a sophisticated Father to His People.

Isn't it interesting that [A] has been acting so much more cultured, patient and 'fatherly' since coming to Krakoa? It's almost like someone knew what was coming and had a quiet word with him, isn't it?

Okay now that might be something that's happening. Moira did say that he was yet in a state far from "her" Apoc. Do you think she talked to him or just that Krakoa is changing him and making him transition to Life IX Apocalypse?

[People Of The Earth]

Not really. The population already know that the resurrection process is reserved for mutants who [died] ages ago and current X-Men who die in battle. Some mutants that got depowered and died probably still aren't back yet since they're resurrecting in chronological order so why allow mass suicides so a million mutants can get their powers back when there are still millions of other murdered mutants to resurrect. The Crucible is obviously the X-Men's ritual to enthanize the depowered mutants, make sure they're ready to accept death and allow them to get instantly queued for regeneration.

"Euthanize"? The act of euthanisia has the concept of painless and merciful death built into it.
There was Nothing painless nor merciful in Apocalypse goring that teenager like he did, so I reject that term vehemently.

And as to the bolded, I would answer that it is Because they are mutants, and as mutants their powers belongs to them, they have a right to it.
Eventhough the remaining Depowered are the most vulnerable part of the population, and probably, one of the most traumatized as well…

[Veitha]

"Euthanize"? The act of euthanisia has the concept of painless and merciful death built into it.
There was Nothing painless nor merciful in Apocalypse goring that teenager like he did, so I reject that term vehemently.

And as to the bolded, I would answer that it is Because they are mutants, and as mutants their powers belongs to them, they have a right to it.
Eventhough the remaining Depowered are the most vulnerable part of the population, and probably, one of the most traumatized as well…

It was clearly stated in the comic that the Five wouldn't be able to handle all of Resurrections at once. So preventing mass suicides is a need for the nation at this point, unless they want a million deaths overnight.

I want to add also that all these talk of mercy and stuff would apply if they were humans... But what is a death match to an immortal population that can even remove pain and trauma from a person's mind?

[Nullviahomo]

Okay now that might be something that's happening. Moira did say that he was yet in a state far from "her" Apoc. Do you think she talked to him or just that Krakoa is changing him and making him transition to Life IX Apocalypse?

Hard to say. For example, it - could - have been the establishment of a mutant nation on Krakoa back in Life 9 that started that version of Apocalypse off on his journey into maturity, in which case it's not impossible that a similar thing is happening here, but it would be damned fast work, Apocalypse seems remarkably chilled from the moment he arrives on the Island. Chilled and with a whole backpack stuffed full of plans.

If I had to make a bet, I'd suggest that while Xavier was putting together the whole Krakoan project (as suggested to him by Moira) she was off smooth-talking the big guy and giving him the same kind of heads-up she'd already provided to Xavier and Magneto. She went through an entire life at his side, so she's got a very different perspective on Apocalypse and what he can and should be to anyone else on Earth. Xavier and Magneto may think Moira wants Krakoa and mutantkind unified under their leadership, but that may not be her real endgame.

[People Of The Earth]

It was clearly stated in the comic that the Five wouldn't be able to handle all of Resurrections at once. So preventing mass suicides is a need for the nation at this point, unless they want a million deaths overnight.

But that's the thing, and if I had one issue with what Hickman wrote, it's this: why is it an issue exactly?
Except for the moral implication it would cause, and making the waiting list for the RPs even longer than it already is?
That wouldn't change the Five's current workload at all. What possible strain I could think of would be on the storage/servers being used around the world by the Kraked and even that is flimsy at best, because Xavier went to Forge with that exact problem in mind and he overcame it with his designs and Shi'ar technologies.

I want to add also that all these talk of mercy and stuff would apply if they were humans... But what is a death match to an immortal population that can even remove pain and trauma from a person's mind?

They are humans, immortality doesn't change their nature, only their limitations.
Euthanasia is still as far away from what the Crucible is as it can possibly be. A deathmatch is what it was, if not an execution. And what would be the point of Crucible if people are to have their mind partially wiped away/tampered with to remove the pain and trauma associated to it?
That would devoid it from all the symbolism of rebirth and reclamation peoples are putting forth, wouldn't it?

[Kisinith]

No, that's the tactics they'll be using to reach their goal, not the actual goal itself, you are mixing the two things.
Xavier gave said goal in its speech to the world, and Magneto further asserted it at Davos: the mutants will dominate the planet, because they are its "true" inheritors (according, again, to Xavier).
The purpose of Krakoa is to ensure this happens, the tactics they'll use are the means to go about it.

Goal: the end toward which effort is directed
Belief: something that is accepted, considered to be true, or held as an opinion
(definitions courtesy of Merriam-Webster)

I think you’re wrong on this. Mutants “dominating the world” is more of a belief than a goal because they aren’t really putting effort into achieving it, beyond simply staying alive. Whereas the areas they have been putting effort into are generally more about survival not domination. Even when you look at what was said at Davos, that was aimed at exhausting anti-mutant sentiment not replacing humanity. Its not clear cut and you could make an argument but its way too broad at this point. At best its a gross oversimplification.

So? The discrimination being done in full display of everyone or in the back of all Kraked with only an handfull of them being aware of it, isn't relevant here.

The fact that said discrimination is happening at all is what's relevant.

That ban of the precogs absolutely is discrimination against them.
The act of Crucible barring the Depowered from what is rightfully theirs is also a form of discrimination against them.

As readers aware of those pieces of information, why wouldn't we discuss this as a result?

Not sure what your point is as I never criticized discussing the discrimination against precogs. I criticized 2 things. First, the assumption that there is broad-based support for discrimination. Second, the assumption some of the more esoteric mutants like Leech would be unwelcome in Krakoa because their powers would be disruptive and it was already ok to discriminate against certain types of mutants ie; precogs.

The first is wrong because there is no broad-based discrimination. There is no evidence that anyone outside of Moira, Magneto and Xavier are even aware of the ban on precogs and of those three, evidence shows that Xavier and Magneto view it as a necessary and temporary measure. The reason for that ban is specific to Moira (and Destiny) so there is no reason at all to assume any further groups of mutants would be discriminated against, except for personal bias and unsubstantiated hostility towards the Krakoan status.