X-Men #7 SPOILERS

[Devaishwarya]

They haven’t even described it as a ‘utopia’ once. In fact, Xavier even says “is what we have perfect? no. what is? but it’s a start— and a good one.”

I really want to read the copies other people are reading...they don't sound at all interesting or even comprehensible but...at least I'll have a reference for the things they post.

[Tycon]

I really want to read the copies other people are reading...they don't sound at all interesting or even comprehensible but...at least I'll have a reference for the things they post.

From some of the stuff people are saying against Krakoa, it sounds like whatever book they’re reading is being ghost written by Mark Millar.

[LordUltimus]

They haven’t even described it as a ‘utopia’ once.

[Kisinith]

Gonna be slightly pedantic but Paradise and Utopia are related terms, very similar, but not identical.
A Paradise (leaving out the religious context) is a place of extreme beauty, delight, or happiness or a state of supreme happiness; bliss.
A Utopia is a community or society that possesses highly desirable or nearly perfect qualities for its citizens. Utopia focuses on equality in economics, government and justice, though by no means exclusively, with the method and structure of proposed implementation varying based on ideology. A visionary system of political or social perfection.

They can often be used interchangeably but its not really accurate to do so, a Utopia is an idealized society a paradise is a place of beauty and happiness.

Krakoa, objectively is a paradise. It is also objectively not a utopia (again leaving out the religious connotations of the paradise)

[Tycon]

Even take into account whenever it’s compared to Heaven. I mean it’s a place where they’re functionally immortal, have anything at their disposal, and are in complete harmony with the rest of mutantkind. Those comparisons make sense but the term “Utopia” is something that relies on the idea of perfection, something that the mutants on Krakoa have accepted their nation isn’t.

[Rev9]

Isn't it funny how Krakoa has a kill no human law,but in this issue Apocalypse explicitly refers to Aero as less than mutant until she dies,so in effect Crucible is the killing of humans to make more mutants!

[Nigel909]

They haven’t even described it as a ‘utopia’ once. In fact, Xavier even says “is what we have perfect? no. what is? but it’s a start— and a good one.”

Hi Tycon
Can I just check if you're certain about the U word ? Critics of Krakoa use it so frequently that I've sort of accepted it. It would be so much easier to quote you than try to debate the nuances of the meaning of Utopia !

[Nigel909]

Isn't it funny how Krakoa has a kill no human law,but in this issue Apocalypse explicitly refers to Aero as less than mutant until she dies,so in effect Crucible is the killing of humans to make more mutants!

Actually this is the first interesting criticism of Crucibe I've read. Worth some thought.

[JB]

Rereading (again) and this quote from Nightcrawler really encapsulates this new XM-era, for me.

"...Krakoa asks hard questions of me. Every day there's some new, amazing something to believe in...and all it costs is the suspension of everything I used to believe..."

LOVE. IT!!!!

Agreed 100,000%. When we first learned Hickman was taking over, I mentally and emotionally threw my hands in the air and let him take the wheel. I'm here for the ride, wherever it goes. In Hickman I trust.

Gonna be slightly pedantic but Paradise and Utopia are related terms, very similar, but not identical.
A Paradise (leaving out the religious context) is a place of extreme beauty, delight, or happiness or a state of supreme happiness; bliss.
A Utopia is a community or society that possesses highly desirable or nearly perfect qualities for its citizens. Utopia focuses on equality in economics, government and justice, though by no means exclusively, with the method and structure of proposed implementation varying based on ideology. A visionary system of political or social perfection.

They can often be used interchangeably but its not really accurate to do so, a Utopia is an idealized society a paradise is a place of beauty and happiness.

Krakoa, objectively is a paradise. It is also objectively not a utopia (again leaving out the religious connotations of the paradise)

Well said.

I moved a little over a year ago and I call my new area "paradise" all the time. Palm trees, consistently beautiful skies, and the beach 10 minutes away. I call it paradise in comparison to where I moved from, which had none of that. I also feel this way because it's still new to me.

By no means is it a utopia. We have some traffic issues, occasional power outages from rough storms, man-eating bugs. But it is paradise to me.

On Krakoa, the mutants are not actively being hunted. That is paradise.

[Tycon]

Hi Tycon
Can I just check if you're certain about the U word ? Critics of Krakoa use it so frequently that I've sort of accepted it. It would be so much easier to quote you than try to debate the nuances of the meaning of Utopia !

Yeah, I can confirm. Mostly just because I’ve been scouring for any use of the term “Utopia” for little wink-wink, nod-nods to the post-Messiah Complex Decimation era. I think the X-Slack crew has been very measured in what events they refer to, because it’s mostly just been a major focus on the Genosha Genocide.

[JB]

Isn't it funny how Krakoa has a kill no human law,but in this issue Apocalypse explicitly refers to Aero as less than mutant until she dies,so in effect Crucible is the killing of humans to make more mutants!

Actually this is the first interesting criticism of Crucibe I've read. Worth some thought.

Technically it's "murder no man". Melody made the choice to participate knowing the outcome.

[Havok83]

Isn't it funny how Krakoa has a kill no human law,but in this issue Apocalypse explicitly refers to Aero as less than mutant until she dies,so in effect Crucible is the killing of humans to make more mutants!

There is no law against killing humans. The law is about murder and what Apocalypse did was not murder

[Tycon]

Technically it's "murder no man". Melody made the choice to participate knowing the outcome.

And although •—[A]—• didn’t consider Aero a “mutant”, she would probably still legally be considered one since it looked like Melody’d been staying in the Akademos Habitat for awhile.

[JB]

And although •—[A]—• didn’t consider Aero a “mutant”, she would probably still legally be considered one since it looked like Melody’d been staying in the Akademos Habitat for awhile.

Right. She wouldn't be in the crucible if she was considered simply human.

[Nigel909]

Yeah, I can confirm. Mostly just because I’ve been scouring for any use of the term “Utopia” for little wink-wink, nod-nods to the post-Messiah Complex Decimation era. I think the X-Slack crew has been very measured in what events they refer to, because it’s mostly just been a major focus on the Genosha Genocide.

Many thanks Tycon .unfortunately that does mean I've wasted my time reading up on Utopia .!