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  1. #571
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    No your point waps that Antonio was "one of the only" mutants killed as if that was even okappy. Now you want to backtrack and say we dont even know how many and that doesnt even matter because its on the page that you were wrong and the body count was high, you can have that.
    I'm not backtracking anything, you're just misinterpretating and making it about what you wanna say rather than what I'm talking about. "The body count was staggering" could mean anything. In real life when like 20 people die on a shooting or something, it's considered a big number. The mutants who died thank to M-Day continues to be a very small issue.
    Last edited by Wiccan; 02-26-2020 at 03:39 PM.

  2. #572
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    She was about to make the entire species go extinct. Even if you do not count the actual deaths (I can't see why not) she risked mutants to be gone forever. Add the fact that they became an easy target after that and that she showed no remorse whatsoever and you've got a villain.

    Also, why shouldn't mutants be proud of their gifts?

  3. #573
    Astonishing Member AHRNIHAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    She thought it then…
    Well, not anymore.
    Whatever Wanda went through then doesn't concerned mutants because she caused much much worse for mutants. Mutants aren't just depowered they're extinct. No more mutants were born after that. They're not gunning after her is the best case scenerio now.
    It's "forgive but not forget" for mutants now.
    He is the rock that their island nation is built upon. The people of Krakoa know him and what he has done for them over the years, and they look up to him. He might not be RULING Krakoa, but he is definitely leading it.

  4. #574
    Astonishing Member legion_quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    1) It's not defined how many people died. Even here, it's vague. In Marvel Wiki there's like 10 actual people known to have actually died. JDW or some other editor even said that nobody died(though I know they'd be objetively wrong at that).

    2) My point is that the people who died isn't why Wanda is this boogeyman that the kids don't even want to hear the name of. Like I mentioned, Selene who has been killing mutants for ages, is living normally in there. The actual casualties are only a minor issue. The biggest problem is that Wanda made mutants human, which is now the ultimate sacrilege.
    Bingo. Couldnt have put it better.

    Hickman is making the story a flip on the typical mutant story. Instead of them being just the victims who take the abuse with grace and fight for equality, he's positioning them as the ultimate victims who have now weaponized that victim mentality in to a dangerous, subversive and rabid cult, bordering on, if not totally tipped in to, extremism. The parallels to real world events are all over the place in the story, but you can definitely see them. Wanda is the convenient enemy, the mutant 'Great Satan' who can be blamed for everything, while actual threats and extremists are quietly consolidating power and will likely cause many more deaths and much more destruction than she ever did.
    Last edited by legion_quest; 02-26-2020 at 03:37 PM.
    I will raise my throne above the Stars of God

  5. #575
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    when I do an accident, its like a small spurt of stupidity or bad luck, the literal YEARS of unchecked mental instability, magical abuse for her selfish reasons are not accidents.
    who cares if they call her names? we all know the moment the x-men remind her of her actions she goes into puppy face cry victim mode and the avengers proceed to white knight her

  6. #576
    Mighty Member zinderel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    So the mutants are only their powers and nothing else? Strip the power and what does it remain? A person. Awful…

    All the more the mutants have not always useful powers, and some of them can be very detrimental…
    “Why can’t black people just be...normal? Why do they have to make everything about skin color?”

    “Why can’t queers just be...normal? Why do they have to shove their sexual preferences down our throats?”

    “Why can’t women just be...normal? Why do they have to try to take over men’s place in society?”

    “Why can’t Jews just be...normal? Why does their religious preference always have to get in the way?”

    “Why can’t mutants just be...normal? Why do they have to be defined by their powers?”

  7. #577
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legion_quest View Post
    Bingo. Couldnt have put it better.

    Hickman is making the story a flip on the typical mutant story. Instead of them being the just the victims who take the abuse with grace and fight for equality, he's positioning them as the ultimate victims who have now weaponized that victim mentality in to a dangerous, subversive and rabid cult, bordering on, if not totally tipped in to, extremism. The parallels to real world events are all over the place in the story, but you can definitely see them. Wanda is the convenient enemy, the mutant 'Great Satan' who can be blamed for everything, while actual threats and extremists are quietly consolidating power and will likely cause many more deaths and much more destruction than she ever did.
    Well I'm not sure about all that. I'm mostly pro-Krakoa. But like Kurt and Scott, I have questions and issues about some of the things they do.

  8. #578
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legion_quest View Post
    Bingo. Couldnt have put it better.

    Hickman is making the story a flip on the typical mutant story. Instead of them being the just the victims who take the abuse with grace and fight for equality, he's positioning them as the ultimate victims who have now weaponized that victim mentality in to a dangerous, subversive and rabid cult, bordering on, if not totally tipped in to, extremism. The parallels to real world events are all over the place in the story, but you can definitely see them. Wanda is the convenient enemy, the mutant 'Great Satan' who can be blamed for everything, while actual threats and extremists are quietly consolidating power and will likely cause many more deaths and much more destruction than she ever did.
    First of all, they're not fighting Wanda but Orchis, the Children of the Vault etc. She's just a tale that is being told, they're not even going after her (yet).

    Second... Have you ever read an X-Men comic? There's been persecution, genocide and experimentation on them and they should still be graceful? And take the abuse?

  9. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I'm not backtracking anything, you just lack reading comprehension. "The body count was staggering" could mean anything. In real life when like 20 people die on a shooting or something, it's considered a big number. The mutants who died thank to M-Day continues to be a very small issue.
    Even if it was 20 mutants, the decimation wave was multiversal meaning 20 mutants died per universe in the entire multiverse. But lets brush that off.
    And as someone who used to not know better, Id edit your post if I were you bc mods dont like posters questioning others reading comprehension. Otherwise Id question a lot of people's.

  10. #580
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    The panels tuck frump is posting of M-Day aftermath stories are sort of connected to the current use of Wanda in the X-books, which in both cases is: Wanda is not their character, so they can say anything they want about her.

    In her regular home of the Avengers books, even at her lowest, Wanda only killed three people and all of them were brought back - obviously they were trying to make sure she could be used again once they brought her back.

    The X-books were given no such instructions and didn't care, so they just did all these panels showing the horrific bloody aftermath of M-day, and maybe even more importantly, no one in the entire X-line (at least that I've seen) ever spoke up to say that Wanda is a hero and has never shown any signs of hating mutants so she's probably been possessed or something. If it were, say, Jean, they'd keep that possibility open (much like the Avengers comics left open the possibility that maybe it's Doom's fault). They didn't with Wanda because she belongs to the Avengers office and she's their problem. They just kept piling horror on horror and referring to Wanda as nothing more than a psycho villain, even writers who should have known better like Claremont.

    The same thing is happening now in the X-books. I don't know if they plan to have Wanda appear in person - it sure seems like they're hinting at it - but she'd be "on loan" at best. So she makes perfect sense as a boogeyman, because nothing they do or say can affect any plans for the character.

    Despite being a Wanda stan I've mostly stopped caring about this - I'm pissed at Marvel for not putting her back on the Avengers roster where she belongs, but not at X-writers for not having read decades of Avengers comics - but what does get me mad about HoM is that Marvel should have told the X-Men editors to go easy on the destruction so they could bring Wanda back without blood on her hands. Just like they tell editors not to let the Hulk kill people on his usual rampages or not to let Wolverine slash innocent people; it's the same thing, except that no one at Marvel cared about ever using Wanda again except maybe Allan Heinberg and Joss Whedon, and you can understand how that would be annoying to fans of any character.

  11. #581
    Fantastic Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    .... and punishes an entire race for it making her bigot. Such a forgettable detail I know.
    That is the whole point, she was inestable, if she hates the mutants so much she would have killed them long ago.

    She was manipulated by Pietro in creating House of M, to give his father everything he wanted because Pietro told her that everything would be okay.

    Mags kills pietro in anger when the charade is over which makes wanda going over the edge.

  12. #582
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legion_quest View Post
    Bingo. Couldnt have put it better.

    Hickman is making the story a flip on the typical mutant story. Instead of them being just the victims who take the abuse with grace and fight for equality, he's positioning them as the ultimate victims who have now weaponized that victim mentality in to a dangerous, subversive and rabid cult, bordering on, if not totally tipped in to, extremism. The parallels to real world events are all over the place in the story, but you can definitely see them. Wanda is the convenient enemy, the mutant 'Great Satan' who can be blamed for everything, while actual threats and extremists are quietly consolidating power and will likely cause many more deaths and much more destruction than she ever did.
    Really nice take on it. Really shows some hipocrisy for mutants.

    Not a good look the minority starts to get dangerous and cultish.

  13. #583
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    Even if it was 20 mutants, the decimation wave was multiversal meaning 20 mutants died per universe in the entire multiverse. But lets brush that off.
    And as someone who used to not know better, Id edit your post if I were you bc mods dont like posters questioning others reading comprehension. Otherwise Id question a lot of people's.
    Thanks for the tip, I think it's better with the edit.

  14. #584
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    when I do an accident, its like a small spurt of stupidity or bad luck, the literal YEARS of unchecked mental instability, magical abuse for her selfish reasons are not accidents.
    who cares if they call her names? we all know the moment the x-men remind her of her actions she goes into puppy face cry victim mode and the avengers proceed to white knight her
    The Avengers were so quick to play the "she wasn't herself" card and then they put Scott and Emma in jail for the P5 fiasco. Just saying.

  15. #585
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    “Why can’t mutants just be...normal? Why do they have to be defined by their powers?”
    They are their powers and what? Nothing else? Here, on this forum, it is about who has the most raw power…

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