X-Men #7 SPOILERS

[Ferro]

mutants reclaiming death as an empowering thing, as something to achieve and overcome is super metal considering death has been the only binding constant of mutant kind.
Its super mega badass as a concept, they are so used to pain and death its yet another trial before true ascension.

[zinderel]

mutants reclaiming death as an empowering thing, as something to achieve and overcome is super metal considering death has been the only binding constant of mutant kind.
Its super mega badass as a concept, they are so used to pain and death its yet another trial before true ascension.

Exactly! For SO long, death and suffering have been mutantkind’s ultimate foes. Now, they’ve conquered death and are working on finally conquering suffering, a quixotic goal of course, but an understandable one.

[Ferro]

Exactly! For SO long, death and suffering have been mutantkind’s ultimate foes. Now, they’ve conquered death and are working on finally conquering suffering, a quixotic goal of course, but an understandable one.

its so satisfying to anyone that is aware of their full history, but aparently if the x-men dont lick boots before going to the explosive mansion its not the x-men anymore lol

[Zelena]

Oh, well that answers that. Hopefully we get him in some X-books in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if Krakoa gives Shatterstar money much like they do to the Morlocks in Arizona. Also, I wonder if the thing that happens to Krakoa is much mundane than what everyone is thinking of. Maybe its form of government changes our heroes are simply voted out? They're still Krakoans but have little to no political or cultural power. Of course, that would be more politicking than fist throwing or beam firing, so I doubt it's that. For right now I'm enjoying the worldbuilding Hickman's engaged in. It's cool seeing a society of non-humans sloughing off human conventions, ideas, and morals ASAP. Now it makes me want an indepth look at Lemuria (that's the Deviants right?). We already got a good look at Attilan and that was a nasty one.

The mutants weren't born in a alien culture, though.
Now, out of fear of being thrown away from their haven, they accept everything that is dictated by an handful of persons.
Does it sound like culture?

[Ferro]

sounds like a start yeah, and its not everyone since you can chose not to do the crucible or even watch it.
you can be doin pilates in a diamond room or read in mars

[Tycon]

The mutants weren't born in a alien culture, though.
Now, out of fear of being thrown away from their haven, they accept everything that is dictated by an handful of persons.
Does it sound like culture?

But the mutants in Krakoa are just as essential to culture-building as the Quiet Council.

[houndsofluv]

The mutants weren't born in a alien culture, though.
Now, out of fear of being thrown away from their haven, they accept everything that is dictated by an handful of persons.
Does it sound like culture?

its all supposed to feel a bit grey. What this issue made clear, in my mind at least, is that Hickman's exploring this concept of Krakoa. He isn't declaring it as right or wrong - he's explicitly fleshing it out, providing it with nuance, so that its neither

sure mutants were born into human culture but look what human culture did for them - not much good. They may not have been born into a mutant culture but they want to see what a mutant culture could be, and what it could mean for themselves. That's what we see them working out through the books - Krakoa has barely started to crawl, let alone walk. The Quiet Council is just what they're doing right now, its been a temporary measure since the beginning. All the other aspects of life on the island are temporary too, maybe not explicitly intended by the characters to be so but hey this is comics so nothing is gonna last. Hickman recently said in an interview that elements of the current books will be "collapsed" - its all about exploring story potential, not declaring what is definitively right and wrong. Fiction is allowed to be a lot more fun than that

[Ferro]

its all supposed to feel a bit grey. What this issue made clear, in my mind at least, is that Hickman's exploring this concept of Krakoa. He isn't declaring it as right or wrong - he's explicitly fleshing it out, providing it with nuance, so that its neither

sure mutants were born into human culture but look what human culture did for them - not much good. They may not have been born into a mutant culture but they want to see what a mutant culture could be, and what it could mean for themselves. That's what we see them working out through the books - Krakoa has barely started to crawl, let alone walk. The Quiet Council is just what they're doing right now, its been a temporary measure since the beginning. All the other aspects of life on the island are temporary too, maybe not explicitly intended by the characters to be so but hey this is comics so nothing is gonna last. Hickman recently said in an interview that elements of the current books will be "collapsed" - its all about exploring story potential, not declaring what is definitively right and wrong. Fiction is allowed to be a lot more fun than that

hes not being lazy on the concepts he created, other writers would just leave them vague and unexplored, glorified plot devices (the entire bendis work on the x-men start to finish), hes actuay exploring, expanding and explaining, and x-factor as a title to continue the exploration of the ressurection protocols is another plus to the whole universe

[Zelena]

sounds like a start yeah, and its not everyone since you can chose not to do the crucible or even watch it.
you can be doin pilates in a diamond room or read in mars

And you won't be considered as a dissident, not a true believer?

[BroHomo]

Niiiiice post Zinderel....veeeery Nice

[Metal Sphere]

The mutants weren't born in a alien culture, though.
Now, out of fear of being thrown away from their haven, they accept everything that is dictated by an handful of persons.
Does it sound like culture?

Yes, actually. It makes perfect sense that when 98% of the planet's population considers you garbage (and treated you as such for many years), this group would attempt to create a culture that disposes as much human stuff as possible. Simply out of naked desire to reject that which rejected them so thoroughly. Notice how being made human, not death/rape/infidelity is considered the greatest violation a mutant could ever endure. Why? Because they've based their entire culture on that which was the reason for being rejected: Being mutants. Combine that with being invited to a paradise in which you don't have to work, shop, wait for buses or trains, pay taxes, and enjoy free healthcare you can understand why a downtrodden mutant would accept the edicts of a powerful few. Hell, you have Charles Xavier stating that you're now one of the GODS of this world. From suffering mutant to living in lavish beauty with immortal godhood being your new status.

And Hickman has already started to address this with Nightcrawler's musing about what Krakoa's actual founding idea actually is. We just have to be patient and let the man do his work and tell the story.

[houndsofluv]

hes not being lazy on the concepts he created, other writers would just leave them vague and unexplored, glorified plot devices (the entire bendis work on the x-men start to finish), hes actuay exploring, expanding and explaining, and x-factor as a title to continue the exploration of the ressurection protocols is another plus to the whole universe

period. maybe we don't agree with all the things our faves are doing right now...and maybe we do. it wouldn't be the first time in the franchise's history that characters make tough decisions that are greeted w/ divisive fan reactions. I mean they're "human" too, thats why we feel so strongly about them and I think Hickman's doing a fantastic job of portraying them as such - we see the range of reactions on Krakoa, in the text itself, that honestly mirror fan reactions to the work: there are the Ororos who support the direction with their whole spirit, the Logans who agree with bits and pieces of the philosophy, the Kurts who feel some unease but stick with it...

idk where im going with this or if im even building off your point correctly lol I guess im just trying to say that its never been suggested that this is a black and white subject and from the perspective of story and character direction I think Krakoa makes a shitload of sense. whether its "right" or "wrong" isn't the point because theres no answer to that

[Ferro]

And you won't be considered as a dissident, not a true believer?

logan isnt, he's just asked and he simply says no, the island has thousands that surely werent all there.

[spirit2011]

period. maybe we don't agree with all the things our faves are doing right now...and maybe we do. it wouldn't be the first time in the franchise's history that characters make tough decisions that are greeted w/ divisive fan reactions. I mean they're "human" too, thats why we feel so strongly about them and I think Hickman's doing a fantastic job of portraying them as such - we see the range of reactions on Krakoa, in the text itself, that honestly mirror fan reactions to the work: there are the Ororos who support the direction with their whole spirit, the Logans who agree with bits and pieces of the philosophy, the Kurts who feel some unease but stick with it...

idk where im going with this or if im even building off your point correctly lol I guess im just trying to say that its never been suggested that this is a black and white subject and from the perspective of story and character direction I think Krakoa makes a shitload of sense. whether its "right" or "wrong" isn't the point because theres no answer to that

Majority of readers are taking krakoa as inherently good

[TheCape]

I would say that this is lazy in the part of "how we got here", the status is interesting enought that i can ignore that and i want to see what Hickman endgame is, but the way that we went from Rosenberg to Krakoa was weird, it wasn't even a transition, one day we were z and now we are all x. I'm not even getting into how bananas is that the X-Men are actually trusting Xavier after all the s#%^ he pulled (how the hell he convinced Scott at all people to go along with this is something that i would like to know) but to be fair that was a problem even before this, so maybe Marvel is just ignoring it.