Giant Size X-men - Jean Grey and Emma Frost SPOILER thread

[Triniking1234]

Dauterman and Quitely are very different but both are fantastic and we are lucky to even have this conversation lol

Quitley is OK but someone posted a comparison of Jean's "We need to talk" scenes from NXM and GS and Quitley's art comes off as ugly; not gonna lie.

Dauterman's art is pretty good. You see Jean's expressions when she has to put up with Emma's trolling.

[The tall man]

Is the revelation at the end even a big deal? Jean made it sound so dire that Storm will die in 30 days, she will be resurrected almost immediately so it's like who cares. We're basically at the point that the X-Men can just shrug their shoulders whenever death is a concern. So essentially their was no drama to this story because ostensibly mutants are immune from death. Mutants can trade stories about how they died, try to out do each other over who went out the most badass. Rinse and repeat.

[MechaJeanix]

Quitley is OK but someone posted a comparison of Jean's "We need to talk" scenes from NXM and GS and Quitley's art comes off as ugly; not gonna lie.

Dauterman's art is pretty good. You see Jean's expressions when she has to put up with Emma's trolling.

There is no way Quitely‘a art in 121 is ugly. Jean was fabulous in that issue as well as in new X-men 126. I submit both these issues into evidence. Now can we stop telling the lies lol

Yes I know subjectivity in art but this is also why we designate good taste and bad taste. When I think of Scott and Jean I see them in the New X-Men look by Quitely. He is their definitive artist (imo of course). Scott was actually slim and not overly buff. Phil Jimenez was good too but like Dauterman he draws people looking like models instead of regular folks.

[MechaJeanix]

Is the revelation at the end even a big deal? Jean made it sound so dire that Storm will die in 30 days, she will be resurrected almost immediately so it's like who cares. We're basically at the point that the X-Men can just shrug their shoulders whenever death is a concern. So essentially their was no drama to this story because ostensibly mutants are immune from death. Mutants can trade stories about how they died, try to out do each other over who went out the most badass. Rinse and repeat.

While they can doesn’t mean most want to die or experience it. They will try to save their friend but if it fails they have a back up plan.

[Celestialbodies]

In this new era we have witnessed how mutants are stronger when they work together. We have been shown various examples of mutants using their powers in tandem (The Five, Xavier and the cuckoos plus others, Jean and Monet, etc). It comes as no surprise that Emma assisted Jean or that Jean assisted Emma. Why would either one go into Storm's mind alone when the other is available to help?

Plus they didn't know what was wrong with Storm. Jean (with Quire) is the top telepath and Emma is clearly in the top 5 powerful telepaths (I think she is probably 3rd as I'd place her under Xavier).

I do like Storm's psychic defenses were remembered especially since Claremont reminded us a lot in his runs that she had them. This issue was a good showing for Emma, Jean, and Storm. I think the fan groups of each should be really happy.

I know as a Jean mega fan I was really happy with the issue. The splash page with Jean is now one of my top favorite Jean pages. The issue shown that Emma is a sharp, skilled, and a fast thinker. There really wasn't any downsides except for fans that wanted Emma to do more or those unhappy that Jean was portrayed as stronger, or those who felt Storm wasn't somehow enough in this issue.

I'm confused by the assertions by some that Jean or Emma needing one another is somehow seen as a negative. They were performing an exploratory psychic surgery similar to how doctors perform a procedure and has back up such as other professionals, nurses, and other doctors. Besides given the severity of the situation and the stakes of course Jean or even Emma would have prepared themselves adequately to attack the issue. I guess because their telepaths and former rivals readers are reading in-between the lines when there's nothing there. We don't question when two elements work in tandem, or combat based heroes, etc. The only thing I would have done differently with the current issue and the initial silent issue, is assembling a team of telepaths what's better than two world class telepaths? Several!!


On your last point this issue was very, VERY similar to Morrison's issue down to Jean doing the majority of the heavy lifting, and tbf I thought Hickman had Emma do a helluva lot more than she did in the original issue. With Storm I was okay with her role for a handful of reasons, we got insight into her mind, I thought they did a wonderful job designing her mind, and she's getting her own spotlight issue which I feel will do a better job exploring her motivations, and inner thoughts.

[Alphaxman]

Well I for one absolutely loved it. I just reread NXM 121 and while very imaginable and original, I always found Quitely's figures quite off-putting, like they all needed a couple of sandwiches or something. And those faces... me no likey. But Dauterman's girls are all the right kind of beautiful and the boys were serving nothing but cake.
As a homage, I loved seeing Jean and Emma diving into someone's mind again. But unlike last time, Emma actually helped. Plus I loved the difference in Ororo's mind vs Xavier's. His fit Quitely bizarre style while Storm's was perfectly rendered by Dauterman -- picturesque and powerful. And Dauterman and Hickman used a lot more symbolism that matched Storm's character to a tee. Quitely visual was just weird -- like the wrinkle-faced doors, to the child-like chalkboard drawings.
It was great character work for all three women and I didn't need dialogue to enjoy it. Sometimes pretty pictures can be enough. 10 out of 10.

[Dante Milton]

Heaven help me, Dauterman's bubble butts send me soaring.

[Soulsword323]

I've re-read this a couple of times, and love it more and more. I feel like you can pick up on different things that maybe you didn't catch the first time.

While Quitely's silent issue was depicted very well, his work before that looked very off. I like his style, but much prefer Dauterman's. Its very vibrant.

[Omega_DCD]

As portrayed in the comic books, Cassandra Nova is the most powerful entity any mutant has ever faced. Unlike mutants, her omega-level power aren't limited to one thing. Every ability she has displayed seem to be on the omega-level.

This is a result of fully developing the potential of Xavier's x-gene.

Storm, being highly resistant to telepathy doesn't even show up on the scale that measures Cassandra Nova's telepathic abilities.

She is the most powerful telepath of all. She has proved able to manipulate Emma (Astonishing X-Men) Xavier (Morrison's run) and Rachael (in the recent Jean Grey comic) the world's most powerful telepaths on the subconscious level without them even being aware of what happened. Only Jean Grey boosted by the phoenix power has ever been portrayed on her level.

That's why it makes no sense at all to think Storm poses a similar danger no matter what the reason is for her condition.

If they wanted to be safe, that's great, but to imply they had to be wary similar to why they had to be wary of Cassandra Nova doesn't add up.

And Morrison's story focused on Cassandra Nova, not the Shadow King, thus my assertion it was a beautiful homage to Quietly's art but fell far short of being a homage to Morrison's far better, original story.

You're dismissing Jean too much here...in X-Men Red, Cassandra Nova starts off by saying Jean is not Phoenix anymore (and therefore is no threat to her), but as the series progresses, she sees how formidable Jean is...she directly says that Jean is stronger than before...mind you their last encounter was when Jean was connecting to the Phoenix Force

When she goes to rescue Rachel, Jean's entire presence there is an astral form that Nova is not even aware of. Jean tells Nova she knows she's afraid

In the finale Jean is able to keep Nova out of her mind even without the Magneto helmet, and prevent her from doing that body explosion tactic she's so fond of.

[JB]

While they can doesn’t mean most want to die or experience it. They will try to save their friend but if it fails they have a back up plan.

We also don't know how the virus came to be, if it can spread, have others on the island been infected, will it cause her more anguish just as it did here? There's a lot to explore about their finding.

[Devaishwarya]

This is why Scott and Logan cannot say no to each other and I cannot say no to them both. I am replete with cake.

[jonincentex]

You're dismissing Jean too much here...in X-Men Red, Cassandra Nova starts off by saying Jean is not Phoenix anymore (and therefore is no threat to her), but as the series progresses, she sees how formidable Jean is...she directly says that Jean is stronger than before...mind you their last encounter was when Jean was connecting to the Phoenix Force

When she goes to rescue Rachel, Jean's entire presence there is an astral form that Nova is not even aware of. Jean tells Nova she knows she's afraid

In the finale Jean is able to keep Nova out of her mind even without the Magneto helmet, and prevent her from doing that body explosion tactic she's so fond of.

I think you may be misreading what I wrote.

Your reply sounds like you thought of Jean when I referred to "Rachael" as one of the telepaths Nova was able to manipulate without her being aware. I didn't list Jean as one of the telepaths Cassandra Nova was able to manipulate.

Jean since her emergence as a telepath has always been the most powerful mutant telepath. In the Jean Grey comic book, however, Cassandra Nova was consistently portrayed as more powerful. An example is Jean wasn't able to detect Cassandra's manipulation of Rachael's mind until AFTER she attacked Jean.

In previous confrontations and in the original one which Morrison wrote, Jean was more powerful, but only thanks to the Phoenix force.

If X-men The End is the decider Jean is the more powerful telepath as she is able to take the phoenix force away from Cassandra.

I'm just curious. What is Cassandra Nova's body exploding tactic you mention? Am I missing something? I have read the comic over and I don't see that? Can you describe it another way or give me an issue.

[9th.]

The art was gorgeous but I breezed through this way too quickly considering the price I paid for it.

[Strong Girl Daken]

Emma didn't do a single thing in New X-men 121 lol. She spent the issue struggling with the faces while Jean worked. Emma was similarly a liability here but at least she helped with the rubble.

[Omega_DCD]

I think you may be misreading what I wrote.

Your reply sounds like you thought of Jean when I referred to "Rachael" as one of the telepaths Nova was able to manipulate without her being aware. I didn't list Jean as one of the telepaths Cassandra Nova was able to manipulate.

Jean since her emergence as a telepath has always been the most powerful mutant telepath. In the Jean Grey comic book, however, Cassandra Nova was consistently portrayed as more powerful. An example is Jean wasn't able to detect Cassandra's manipulation of Rachael's mind until AFTER she attacked Jean.

In previous confrontations and in the original one which Morrison wrote, Jean was more powerful, but only thanks to the Phoenix force.

If X-men The End is the decider Jean is the more powerful telepath as she is able to take the phoenix force away from Cassandra.

I'm just curious. What is Cassandra Nova's body exploding tactic you mention? Am I missing something? I have read the comic over and I don't see that? Can you describe it another way or give me an issue.

That is not accurate...as soon as Kitty contacts Jean via video conference and tells her that Rachel is gone and took out Rockslide, Jean says Cassandra Nova is in Rachel's head, and that she'll handle it.

Cassandra Nova exploded the ambassador's head in the first issue...thought she exploded Jean in the issue where Jean rescued Rachel thanks to Jean's telepathic projection...and she exploded a group of soldiers in the helicarrier aircraft in X-Men Red #11....and she was attempting to do it to Jean for real, as Jean told Captain America, but Jean was constantly preventing her

The whole run is Cassandra Nova underestimating Jean and being shown up and learning Jean doesn't need the Phoenix Force to beat her. The whole reason she goes to Rachel to use against Jean instead of Jean directly is because, as she tells Rachel, "You are strong Rachel Grey. But you are not your mother, not yet. You are no threat to me"

Jean is.