Giant Size X-men - Jean Grey and Emma Frost SPOILER thread

[Ferro]

Might as well stick her in a fridge right?

A white cold room yes

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Might as well stick her in a fridge right?

Her not being in a fridge is what the aggro is about. How dare she stomp around talking to world leaders and fighting Cassandra Nova instead of providing motivation for Cyclops to do those things instead!

[butterflykyss]

Yes it's a team book, and the team has a leader...even so, Jean was helping with containing the collateral damage, Gentle took on the threat head on, launching him into the air, where Storm met him to strike him down with lightning and short circuit the sentinite, thus stopping the immediate threat.

And the problem is...?

it wasnt a problem just as Jean meeting her death by way of sentinels in HoX/DoX wasnt a problem. my apologies.

[Ferro]

it wasnt a problem just as Jean meeting her death by way of sentinels in HoX/DoX wasnt a problem. my apologies.

or her helping her household in a fun family dinner

[starduck]

I don't get it either, Jean was dead for 17 years. I don't see how she was taking anyone's spotlight.

[Omega_DCD]

it wasnt a problem just as Jean meeting her death by way of sentinels in HoX/DoX wasnt a problem. my apologies.

I won't speak for anyone else, but I've said plenty that my problem with Orchis Jean in those two issues wasn't FEATS™️ but characterization

[starduck]

I won't speak for anyone else, but I've said plenty that my problem with Orchis Jean in those two issues wasn't FEATS™️ but characterization

I agree, she actually had a big feat when she was livestreaming their deaths millions of kms away that not even Cerebro could reach them. But the problem was her just basically cowering in fetal position for most of the issue

[Tank]

I won't speak for anyone else, but I've said plenty that my problem with Orchis Jean in those two issues wasn't FEATS™️ but characterization

Exactly. Storm fans thinks its feats but it was more about the meek, zero resolve portrayal. Cmon monet had to tell her what to do.

[SiegePerilous02]

Exactly. Storm fans thinks its feats but it was more about the meek, zero resolve portrayal. Cmon monet had to tell her what to do.

Monet did not have to tell her what to do. She lied and said she needed help so Monet would not stay behind and die. Monet called her bluff because Jean did her task without help in the next few pages.

Weirdly its Jeans fans who dont seem to get this and give her the hardest time about this. Jean has been fine in DoX. Especially in this issue which was awesome

Also her being concerned about people while being injured is not cowering.

[butterflykyss]

I won't speak for anyone else, but I've said plenty that my problem with Orchis Jean in those two issues wasn't FEATS™️ but characterization

I thought her characterization was pretty consistent with the jean I've become acquainted with over the years.

Monet did not have to tell her what to do. She lied and said she needed help so Monet would not stay behind and die. Monet called her bluff because Jean did her task without help in the next few pages.

Weirdly its Jeans fans who dont seem to get this and give her the hardest time about this. Jean has been fine in DoX. Especially in this issue which was awesome

Also her being concerned about people while being injured is not cowering.

thank you beloved excellent point.

[Omega_DCD]

I thought her characterization was pretty consistent with the jean I've become acquainted with over the years.

Acquainted...key word.

That's not the Jean that endured extreme advanced radiation and defied death to save her team and the astronauts on the shuttle

That's not the Jean that got transported to a war zone 3,000 years in the future, confused, with no powers, sees a man in distress hanging, and instinctively jumps to grab him and save him from falling

That's not the Jean who defies Onslaught twice and denies him access to her mind to learn how she can access the Phoenix Force

That's not the Jean who refuses to believe Scott was dead, searches for him, and ends up single handedly separating Apocalypse's spirit from Scott's body

That's not the Jean that was willing to risk death by lending her psychic strength to Xavier so he could connect to a dying Moira(*Golem) so he could psychically retrieve the info on the Legacy virus cure

There's a LOT of resolve missing from Orchis Jean

[franckd]

I thought her characterization was pretty consistent with the jean I've become acquainted with over the years.

As a Jean Grey fan, I tend to think she was OCC. Even non Jean Grey fans realized she was out of character in this Orchid mission and were vocal about it on social medias. if Jean has to die, she won't go without a fight. But she even didn't tried in HoX/PoX. It's like she didn't have TK. And if there was one thing that we can say about Jean Grey, it's that she was never afraid about death.

And that's also why fans and readers thought she was OOC in Uncanny X-Men 394 (Joe Casey) in 2001, when she was written as a hopeless damsel in distress... Good for us, Morrison never wrote that kind of Jean. Even whenshe & Logan were heading to the sun, with the certainty of death, she never cried or whined.

You have to admit, as a Storm Fan, that you are the expert on the character, and that sometimes she's kind of OOC (Taylor X-Men Red) and sometimes well written (Giant Size). You know better, because Storm is your favorite character. I hope the same applies for some Jean fans here. Being a fan doesn't mean that we are always right. But some of us are - I think - rational and some of us have a huge knowledge about a character history.

[alexphantom]

I agree with all of this.

[Celestialbodies]

I think if we are to call people out we should be fair about the criticism. I think jean - considering how long she had been dead - most certainly deserved her moment to shine. however, this shouldn't have been at the expense of other characters. for instance, taylor wrote that storm should be able to kill herself with her own lightning bolt. ororo is immune to the weather and the effects of it so under no circumstances should she be hurt by her own lightning especially when nehzno easily tanked it.

next when their underwater base was under attack ororo and nehzno stood helplessly by until jean could transport them underwater even though ororo could have done the same thing on her own. jean, at that time, should have gotten the focus she needed but it doesnt make it right when other characters are made to look ineffectual. so I would challenge people who criticize certain fans for expressing their frustration to at least try to see where these fans are coming from.


now let's compare that to what happened in this giant size book.

even though ororo was incapacitated, her mind was still strong enough to resist the power of two immensely strong telepaths, one being an omega level telepath. both jean and emma got moments to shine while the strength of ororos mind was showcased. we didnt see this in red where storm wasnt even shown trying to resist the nanite in her brain. so fans wont cry foul when their faves are represented in a good light.

For perspective, Jean had been previously dead 14 years before appear in ONE title that was literally advertised as a Jean led book. Meanwhile Storm who was alive and well and appeared consistently across X-men, Fantastic Four, Black Panther, as well as SEVERAL Storm led solos and team books. What's funny about these complaints from Storm fans is while Jean was appear in one title, Storm was simultaneously appearing in X-men Red and X-MEN GOLD but for some reason they only complained about XM:R, why is that you ask? Well because one was 12 issue and well written, and the other went over 30 issues and Storm spent the majority of that time passed out. Storm was more useful in Red than she had been for YEARS in any other title!!

Look Gold had 36 issues without Jean. Marauders there isn't Jean in sigh too

Where's the concerns about this, where are the comments, you want a "Mary Sue", or a team book written as a solo then read Gold, Storm had 36 issues in that title and I guarantee no one remembers a thing of substance.

it dont matter at this point. I'm just glad it's over and we have Hickman doing a better job showcasing what these xladies can do. I was just at awe that ororo was able to resist both jean (an omega level mutant) and Emma (a high level telepath) from probing her mind. it wasnt until they all worked together (including storm mind) were the able to find the source of her ailment.

Marauders has literally been mostly a Kitty and Emma book, but because Storm slaps Emma, her fans are happy...

To be fair, the creators do Storm like this in 9.9 out of every 10 issues. My confusion is with the weird grievance with Jean Grey over it, of all characters, who has only started being around regularly very recently and, like Storm, doesn't do anything big or important when she shows up, besides the MAJOR FEAT of telling Creed to shut up, of course.

Which makes the complaints worse, Red was the first time in YEARS that Storm came off as effective and displaying a meaningful relationship with another female character outside of being "Lightning Lass". Its hard to feel sorry for her fans due to how consistently they blame others for problems with the character that has been apparent for at least two decades. Where was the complaints during the Extraordinary X-men phase when Storm was the leader?!

I don't get it either, Jean was dead for 17 years. I don't see how she was taking anyone's spotlight.

Woman hasn't been back for three years and yet somehow she's stealing the spotlight of characters who are consistently neglected!

Acquainted...key word.

That's not the Jean that endured extreme advanced radiation and defied death to save her team and the astronauts on the shuttle

That's not the Jean that got transported to a war zone 3,000 years in the future, confused, with no powers, sees a man in distress hanging, and instinctively jumps to grab him and save him from falling

That's not the Jean who defies Onslaught twice and denies him access to her mind to learn how she can access the Phoenix Force

That's not the Jean who refuses to believe Scott was dead, searches for him, and ends up single handedly separating Apocalypse's spirit from Scott's body

That's not the Jean that was willing to risk death by lending her psychic strength to Xavier so he could connect to a dying Moira(*Golem) so he could psychically retrieve the info on the Legacy virus cure

There's a LOT of resolve missing from Orchis Jean

Which brings us to the actual point, no one is commenting on POX/HOX it was a great series, that said his Jean was incredibly lackluster. And its ingenuous that certain characters fans are so vocal about this issue, yet these same fans lost their minds over an obsessive costume change, and due to monthly naps....

[Rosa Snarks]

Not y'all acting like there wasn't utter chaos in the Storm thread because she was incompetent as hell in Extraordinary X-men. I have to scream