X-Men Fantastic Four #2 - Review and Discussion with SPOILERS

[Ferro]

the quotation was more about emphasizing what crucible was....not what he specifically said. Sorry for any confusion. The fact is Apocalypse was basically belittling her for having lost her power.

They had a way to bring all the mutants powers back...Wanda was going to do it in Childrens Crusade. She re-powered Rictor. But Cyclops and the X-Men show up to kill her and didn't want to hear a thing about it.

And I get why they did....but it is a cop out. They are allied with murderers, kidnappers and sadistic a-holes. They act like genetic supremacists with their 'mutants are superior' crap. And then act all surprised that people who trusted and respected them are calling them out.

“trust and respect “ is adorable since they never once helped them when it came to mutant issues , focus on the reason for the reaction, not the reaction itself considering if mutants don’t help themselves no one will

[Metal Sphere]

You are aware America actively kills children too? And they're not brought back. Applies to the MU as well as irl.

Please don't deflect to the actions of the U.S. in either the real world or the MU. Let's keep the focus on Krakoa, it's actions, geopolitical goals, and so on.

“trust and respect “ is adorable since they never once helped them when it came to mutant issues , focus on the reason for the reaction, not the reaction itself considering if mutants don’t help themselves no one will

Eh, hard to fault the characters for being written by selfish writing offices that don't like to share characters. The absence of certain teams in X-books is not a fault of the characters, and taking issue with them for that is a little strange.

[spirit2011]

ow come the Fantastic Four are so buddy buddy with the Inhumans of Attilan, who are not only an absolute monarchy but enforce a rigid caste system, and whose monarch is also a polygamist to boot?

They aren't tried to rule the world.
Monarch isn't polygamist, Black bolt only has a romantic relationship with Medusa. The rest is for diplamatic reasons

[Ferro]

being heroes just got a lot of innocent mutants killed , the fact sue is more concerned with the way her precious baleia will be treated to form an opinion on them says it all . it doesn’t matter what mutants go trough and their reasons, it matters what the anoying one dimensional stepford wife karen thinks

[Lucyinthesky]

-- Didn't Reed Richards defend Galactus in a Trial?
-- Didn't Reed Richards build a Gulag in the Negative Zone in appalling conditions to imprison without due-process superheroes during the Civil War? I seem to remember Susan Storm leaving him over that and joining Team Cap.
-- That situation blew up and led to Norman Osborn becoming "Marvel Top Cop" a fact which he took responsibility for in Dark Reign: Fantastic Four, the start of Hickman's run on FF (and the start of Hickman proper in Marvel 616 since the stuff introduced there ultimately paid off in SW'15).

And if Susan Storm cares so much about democracy,
-- how come the Fantastic Four are so buddy buddy with the Inhumans of Attilan, who are not only an absolute monarchy but enforce a rigid caste system, and whose monarch is also a polygamist to boot?
-- they occasionally pal around with Namor the Submariner, (and Susan Storm a little more than that), absolute monarch over the Kingdom of Atlantis?
-- Are first-name basis with King T'Challa, who ruled over Wakanda under the divine right of kings. In the case of the latter, TNC had them transition to constitutional monarchy, but still the FF supported Wakanda for decades when it was an absolute monarchy. And Susan Storm even went skinny dipping with the king at once, IIRC.

Krakoa isn't a democracy...right now. Because it has a Provisional Government, common to all nations in periods of founding. For instance the USA wasn't a democracy in the period after the Revolution, it was run by a loose government called a Confederation (not the one that came later in the Civil War) and most of them weren't really democratic, or effective. Krakoa doesn't have a caste system like the Inhumans, nor does it practice bloodline royalty or divine right of kings like Wakanda. And once the provisional government solidifies and finishes the institution building phase, it will transition to democracy.

You put it very well how I saw this pov from the FF4 agreed on all points

Lol at Victor creating his own mutant paradise for Latveria´s mutants seems so much like him if Magneto was written better in this series I would love a confrontation between the two of them but given how he has been written I can already see him being defeated easily even if it doesn´t make much sense, still it would be nice to see Doom make him an offer similar to the one in Secret Wars where he tells him he can do better than Xavier at founding a mutant paradise like he´s doing with Kitty

[Metal Sphere]

being heroes just got a lot of innocent mutants killed , the fact sue is more concerned with the way her precious baleia will be treated to form an opinion on them says it all . it doesn’t matter what mutants go trough and their reasons, it matters what the anoying one dimensional stepford wife karen thinks

She's a frantic mother looking for her kids from the last people who were seen with them. The conflict is being played up for entertainment, much like real housewives shows were grown women behave like cartoon characters.

[Wild Fang X]

All of a sudden, the MU was a MUCH better place when the FF were gone. The Sharpest Mind in the MU who can't do any basic critical thinking, A self-important desperate housewife and a guy that has the maturity of a 14-year old. At least we got Ben...

As one poster stated earlier, why should the X-Men worry about their reputation among the other "heroes" when said heroes are too lazy to help the mutants in their time of need? Why help those that are of no use to you?

[LordUltimus]

Honestly, considering Xavier's (and heck, Magneto, Emma, Cyclops and any of the rest of Krakoa's leadership) track record of keeping kids at his schools alive, would you want to send your child to him?

[Chris0013]

Okie dokie then a cop out is your interpretation. I see it as Moira having learned that a united mutantkind is the only way left to hopefully ensure their people's survival.

Where does social change come from in the real world. Peaceful protest against injustice like MLK and Gandhi. Thru legislation like the 14th and 15th Amendments and the Civil Rights Act. Thru the courts like Brown vs Board of Education or Loving vs Virginia. Aside from 2 trials for Magneto (one that he rigged by mentally assaulting the justices to vote non guilty) and Wither put on trial for killing his father (where Donald Pierce's FBI agent nephew stood up for him) I do not recall this ever being tried in the comics. And there have been several instances where they had the opportunity...but it is cooler to run off and be outlaw vigilantes.

In fact I would say that throughout their history the X-Men have actually done a serious amount of harm to their cause. Acting in secret. Breaking into NORAD. The original X-Men reforming as X-Factor and running their 'mutant hunting' operation.

[Ferro]

Honestly, considering Xavier's (and heck, Magneto, Emma, Cyclops and any of the rest of Krakoa's leadership) track record of keeping kids at his schools alive, would you want to send your child to him?

franklin is a brat that should have just been cloned into a non brat, this whole thing is stupid

[Wolverine12]

So far I've been disappointed with this series. Plot is bad and forced. The idea that someone even as powerful as the FF can just hang out undetected in the quiet council chambers after Xavier's assassination is just a poor choice. Art is solid I'll say that but I just expected more.

[Ferro]

Where does social change come from in the real world. Peaceful protest against injustice like MLK and Gandhi. Thru legislation like the 14th and 15th Amendments and the Civil Rights Act. Thru the courts like Brown vs Board of Education or Loving vs Virginia. Aside from 2 trials for Magneto (one that he rigged by mentally assaulting the justices to vote non guilty) and Wither put on trial for killing his father (where Donald Pierce's FBI agent nephew stood up for him) I do not recall this ever being tried in the comics. And there have been several instances where they had the opportunity...but it is cooler to run off and be outlaw vigilantes.

In fact I would say that throughout their history the X-Men have actually done a serious amount of harm to their cause. Acting in secret. Breaking into NORAD. The original X-Men reforming as X-Factor and running their 'mutant hunting' operation.

mlk was murdered and his ideologies weren’t as pacifistic and unthreatening as many people pass him as , ghandi was a horrible man, most of those moments are sugar coated moments to make non minorities believe progress is a peaceful thing , when any actual development was brought by those bellow fighting ugly wars to get what they deserve

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

-- Didn't Reed Richards defend Galactus in a Trial?
-- Didn't Reed Richards build a Gulag in the Negative Zone in appalling conditions to imprison without due-process superheroes during the Civil War? I seem to remember Susan Storm leaving him over that and joining Team Cap.
-- That situation blew up and led to Norman Osborn becoming "Marvel Top Cop" a fact which he took responsibility for in Dark Reign: Fantastic Four, the start of Hickman's run on FF (and the start of Hickman proper in Marvel 616 since the stuff introduced there ultimately paid off in SW'15).

And if Susan Storm cares so much about democracy,
-- how come the Fantastic Four are so buddy buddy with the Inhumans of Attilan, who are not only an absolute monarchy but enforce a rigid caste system, and whose monarch is also a polygamist to boot?
-- they occasionally pal around with Namor the Submariner, (and Susan Storm a little more than that), absolute monarch over the Kingdom of Atlantis?
-- Are first-name basis with King T'Challa, who ruled over Wakanda under the divine right of kings. In the case of the latter, TNC had them transition to constitutional monarchy, but still the FF supported Wakanda for decades when it was an absolute monarchy. And Susan Storm even went skinny dipping with the king at once, IIRC.

Krakoa isn't a democracy...right now. Because it has a Provisional Government, common to all nations in periods of founding. For instance the USA wasn't a democracy in the period after the Revolution, it was run by a loose government called a Confederation (not the one that came later in the Civil War) and most of them weren't really democratic, or effective. Krakoa doesn't have a caste system like the Inhumans, nor does it practice bloodline royalty or divine right of kings like Wakanda. And once the provisional government solidifies and finishes the institution building phase, it will transition to democracy.

1. Galactus is a vital natural force necessary for the continuation of the universe. Apocalypse is an extremely racist human.

2. No, prison 42 was actually very comfortable. You just couldn't leave, because it was a prison. Reed was not the warden of Shawshank penitentary.

3. No, Reed wasn't responsible for the rise of Osborn. He did blame himself, because people of exceptional moral character are capable of feeling responsibility towards others.

4. The Inhumans are no longer ruled by their former royal family.

5. They do not 'pal around' with Namor. That's the X-Men. Sue, although tempted, has never betrayed her partner, unlike Scott, Emma, Namor, Charles, Moira, Mystique, Betsy, Kitty, Alex, Bobby, Selene, I'll stop there, Krakoans are dirty and need to wash themselves.

6. Wakandans literally worship a magic cat who put T'challa's family in charge. And you were fine with it when Storm got to parade around in front of those people as their queen sooooo it's not okay now that she's just another Pew?* (Problematic ex-wife). Also, what's your deal with trying to slut shame Sue? Very ironic considering Krakoa's open doors policy re: bedrooms. And the fact she has a successful marriage, and most of your favorite mutants are comically unfaithful and promiscuous.

7. Read POX and HOX. Krakoa will never be ruled by anything other than this council.

[Wild Fang X]

So far I've been disappointed with this series. Plot is bad and forced. The idea that someone even as powerful as the FF can just hang out undetected in the quiet council chambers after Xavier's assassination is just a poor choice. Art is solid I'll say that but I just expected more.

I find myself agreeing with this commentary. You'd think after the events of the first six issues of X-Force and Excalibur, the Council and Cyke wouldve at least had some anti-infiltration protocols for the Quiet Council, at least. Old Cable would be so disappointed at the X-Men slipping like this, but if the X-Men were made to be remotely competent, that would kill the plot, simple as it is.

[spirit2011]

So far I've been disappointed with this series. Plot is bad and forced. The idea that someone even as powerful as the FF can just hang out undetected in the quiet council chambers after Xavier's assassination is just a poor choice. Art is solid I'll say that but I just expected more.

yeah plot is very thin