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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaxman View Post
    I'm a fan of Wanda and I hate how Marvel treats her and how they force to mutant race and their fans to hate her. Back in the day, she wasn't ashamed of being a mutant and she always stood up to hate when it randomly fell on her by a crowd of stupid humans. But since she hardly had stories dedicated to mutant issues, I guess she can survive it all. But Pietro isn't as lucky (if you call the constant hate from X-fans as luck). Most, if not all of his story in the last 20 years have been mutant related when it wasn't about him obsessing over his sister. His best stories was when he was on X-Factor.
    In the end, I hope they both will become mutants again.
    Wanda and Pietro are Avengers, and should stay that way. I like Wanda as a witch and on the magical side of things, and never cared about the mutant side of the character.

  2. #107
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaxman View Post
    I'm a fan of Wanda and I hate how Marvel treats her and how they force to mutant race and their fans to hate her. Back in the day, she wasn't ashamed of being a mutant and she always stood up to hate when it randomly fell on her by a crowd of stupid humans. But since she hardly had stories dedicated to mutant issues, I guess she can survive it all. But Pietro isn't as lucky (if you call the constant hate from X-fans as luck). Most, if not all of his story in the last 20 years have been mutant related when it wasn't about him obsessing over his sister. His best stories was when he was on X-Factor.
    In the end, I hope they both will become mutants again.
    I agree… the mutant thing is that you are not responsable about who you are, just what you do.

    Mutant, Magneto's daughter… whatever. Wanda would be responsible of none of these things.

    Adding these features just make things complicated, and isn't wonderful when things are complicated? It is like life.

  3. #108
    Incredible Member Cruelrain's Avatar
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    Yikes, Wanda doesn't need the Mutants or x-men franchise to survive as a character and viceversa

    a lot of people lied and used her, she couldn’t take it anymore and then she made a mistake. She regret it for all of her life, even helped Hope making more mutants.

    she had a mental breakdown and was manipulated she didn't do it out of hatred for mutants and she wasn't PRETENDING to be a mutant because someone originally told her she was one

    I really don't care what the Mutants think about her, she was never part of them, she was used as a plot device by Bendis,

    I just hope they keep her away from all that...

    What i can't stand is how people can't understand that the moment she collapsed was when magneto killed her brother in cold blood, people don’t give that moment enough importance, she created a world were Magneto dreams came true
    hopping he would be the father that he never was but he not only didn’t became a better man and oppressed the humanity but killed her brother.

    That was the moment Wanda lost all control and only wanted to hurt Magneto.

  4. #109
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    Yikes, Wanda doesn't need the Mutants or x-men franchise to survive as a character and viceversa

    a lot of people lied and used her, she couldn’t take it anymore and then she made a mistake. She regret it for all of her life, even helped Hope making more mutants.

    she had a mental breakdown and was manipulated she didn't do it out of hatred for mutants and she wasn't PRETENDING to be a mutant because someone originally told her she was one

    I really don't care what the Mutants think about her, she was never part of them, she was used as a plot device by Bendis,

    I just hope they keep her away from all that...

    What i can't stand is how people can't understand that the moment she collapsed was when magneto killed her brother in cold blood, people don’t give that moment enough importance, she created a world were Magneto dreams came true
    hopping he would be the father that he never was but he not only didn’t became a better man and oppressed the humanity but killed her brother.

    That was the moment Wanda lost all control and only wanted to hurt Magneto.
    magneto didn't ask her to do anything, he hasnt had any influence or contact with her in years, she abused her powers and seeked further strenght from dr doom to get what she wanted: her homunculi twins back, then a million mutants sufffered for it.

    She got herself to that point, and mutants the actual victims of this situation can harbor pain and fear over an event, a crime she commited witout punishment, since their grief is just as valid if not more than wandas

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    What i can't stand is how people can't understand that the moment she collapsed was when magneto killed her brother in cold blood, people don’t give that moment enough importance, she created a world were Magneto dreams came true
    hopping he would be the father that he never was but he not only didn’t became a better man and oppressed the humanity but killed her brother.

    That was the moment Wanda lost all control and only wanted to hurt Magneto.
    The thing is, though, that wouldn't justify doing it, just explain it. The scene basically shows that she hurts many random people just because hurting them will make Magneto feel bad.

    A character simply can't do that and remain a hero, which is why the only solution that has ever worked is just to take the old reliable cop-out and say it wasn't really her doing that, she was controlled by somebody or something.

    I can't only blame Bendis for this. Obviously no one thought she'd be back as a hero, or at least no one cared if she was. That's why the X-Books felt free to have horrible consequences for years from M-Day.

    When editors/writers care about letting a heroic character stay a hero, they protect them from doing anything really terrible to innocents. That's why Xavier didn't successfully kill anybody when he was brainwashed by Stryker, or why Phoenix!Scott didn't kill anybody except Xavier, who dies all the time anyway.

    It's clear no one cared about Wanda except a few old-school Avengers fans like Heinberg and Whedon. Otherwise they'd never have let her cause so much misery to innocent people. So the only way to deal with it is just the way we deal with Tony Stark murdering people: that never happened, and if it did it wasn't really their fault because [fill in explanation here].

    We can pick the "Doom did it" explanation or the Chthon headcanon that so many Wanda fans like, but there are limits to how far we can go in accepting an out-of-character moment for a character we love. I just refuse to let one story (that she wasn't even in for more than a few pages) define a character with 40+ years of history showing she'd never do such a thing.

  6. #111
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    The thing is, though, that wouldn't justify doing it, just explain it. The scene basically shows that she hurts many random people just because hurting them will make Magneto feel bad.

    A character simply can't do that and remain a hero, which is why the only solution that has ever worked is just to take the old reliable cop-out and say it wasn't really her doing that, she was controlled by somebody or something.

    I can't only blame Bendis for this. Obviously no one thought she'd be back as a hero, or at least no one cared if she was. That's why the X-Books felt free to have horrible consequences for years from M-Day.

    When editors/writers care about letting a heroic character stay a hero, they protect them from doing anything really terrible to innocents. That's why Xavier didn't successfully kill anybody when he was brainwashed by Stryker, or why Phoenix!Scott didn't kill anybody except Xavier, who dies all the time anyway.

    It's clear no one cared about Wanda except a few old-school Avengers fans like Heinberg and Whedon. Otherwise they'd never have let her cause so much misery to innocent people. So the only way to deal with it is just the way we deal with Tony Stark murdering people: that never happened, and if it did it wasn't really their fault because [fill in explanation here].
    when you put it that way, it really is a terrible situation lol, no one really cared about the characthers viability

  7. #112
    Incredible Member Cruelrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    The thing is, though, that wouldn't justify doing it, just explain it. The scene basically shows that she hurts many random people just because hurting them will make Magneto feel bad.

    A character simply can't do that and remain a hero, which is why the only solution that has ever worked is just to take the old reliable cop-out and say it wasn't really her doing that, she was controlled by somebody or something.

    I can't only blame Bendis for this. Obviously no one thought she'd be back as a hero, or at least no one cared if she was. That's why the X-Books felt free to have horrible consequences for years from M-Day.

    When editors/writers care about letting a heroic character stay a hero, they protect them from doing anything really terrible to innocents. That's why Xavier didn't successfully kill anybody when he was brainwashed by Stryker, or why Phoenix!Scott didn't kill anybody except Xavier, who dies all the time anyway.

    It's clear no one cared about Wanda except a few old-school Avengers fans like Heinberg and Whedon. Otherwise they'd never have let her cause so much misery to innocent people. So the only way to deal with it is just the way we deal with Tony Stark murdering people: that never happened, and if it did it wasn't really their fault because [fill in explanation here].

    We can pick the "Doom did it" explanation or the Chthon headcanon that so many Wanda fans like, but there are limits to how far we can go in accepting an out-of-character moment for a character we love. I just refuse to let one story (that she wasn't even in for more than a few pages) define a character with 40+ years of history showing she'd never do such a thing.
    It's not like Avengers were what they are now tho

  8. #113
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    outside of the story immersion, im all solidarity cause no characther deserves it. but at the same time, m-day still happened, ignoring it would be so much lazier than to create something out of it for the mutant story, wich will most likely stay there since difrent offices

  9. #114
    Incredible Member starduck's Avatar
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    I think Uncanny Avengers is what ruined her redemption arc. I don't understand why she was written as cold and cruel to mutants when she should have been more empathetic.

  10. #115
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    Yikes, Wanda doesn't need the Mutants or x-men franchise to survive as a character and viceversa

    a lot of people lied and used her, she couldn’t take it anymore and then she made a mistake. She regret it for all of her life, even helped Hope making more mutants.

    she had a mental breakdown and was manipulated she didn't do it out of hatred for mutants and she wasn't PRETENDING to be a mutant because someone originally told her she was one

    I really don't care what the Mutants think about her, she was never part of them, she was used as a plot device by Bendis,

    I just hope they keep her away from all that...

    What i can't stand is how people can't understand that the moment she collapsed was when magneto killed her brother in cold blood, people don’t give that moment enough importance, she created a world were Magneto dreams came true
    hopping he would be the father that he never was but he not only didn’t became a better man and oppressed the humanity but killed her brother.

    That was the moment Wanda lost all control and only wanted to hurt Magneto.
    Oh, I agree by all what you say. Wanda doesn't need to be a mutant.

    But, comics authors have this habit of putting their characters in all kinds of trouble. And more they like them, more they do that. I admit: I have a soft spot for familial bickering…

    But there's another reason: Krakoa is considering that the only important thing when you are mutant is… that you're mutant (and a strong one too, apparently). The twins when they had this double identity, Avengers and mutants, were really interesting. Their identities were less important than the choices they made: they had this liberty that is seriously lacking today.

  11. #116
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    The thing is, though, that wouldn't justify doing it, just explain it. The scene basically shows that she hurts many random people just because hurting them will make Magneto feel bad.

    A character simply can't do that and remain a hero, which is why the only solution that has ever worked is just to take the old reliable cop-out and say it wasn't really her doing that, she was controlled by somebody or something.

    I can't only blame Bendis for this. Obviously no one thought she'd be back as a hero, or at least no one cared if she was. That's why the X-Books felt free to have horrible consequences for years from M-Day.

    When editors/writers care about letting a heroic character stay a hero, they protect them from doing anything really terrible to innocents. That's why Xavier didn't successfully kill anybody when he was brainwashed by Stryker, or why Phoenix!Scott didn't kill anybody except Xavier, who dies all the time anyway.
    It's clear no one cared about Wanda except a few old-school Avengers fans like Heinberg and Whedon. Otherwise they'd never have let her cause so much misery to innocent people. So the only way to deal with it is just the way we deal with Tony Stark murdering people: that never happened, and if it did it wasn't really their fault because [fill in explanation here].
    Hmh, Onslaught happened, Xavier blamed himself for it.
    Dark Phoenix killed the D'bari and Jean blamed herself for it.
    All heroic characters had their grim moments, the difference is, when you like a character, you forgive. You understand the context, the things the character went through…

    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    We can pick the "Doom did it" explanation or the Chthon headcanon that so many Wanda fans like, but there are limits to how far we can go in accepting an out-of-character moment for a character we love. I just refuse to let one story (that she wasn't even in for more than a few pages) define a character with 40+ years of history showing she'd never do such a thing.
    Agreed. Most of X-men are out-of-character for me in Hickman's run. The X-men haven't changed: they are not the X-men.

  12. #117
    Fantastic Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    outside of the story immersion, im all solidarity cause no characther deserves it. but at the same time, m-day still happened, ignoring it would be so much lazier than to create something out of it for the mutant story, wich will most likely stay there since difrent offices
    I look at the M-Day as a tragedy all around. Yes she was the cause but I feel she was a victim of Doom and the Life force, the same way Iceman was a victim of the Death seed and Logan was a victim of the Hand. And before the recon, Jean a victim of a primordial cosmic force that is the Phoenix. But worse of all, Wanda was a major victim of Bendis. What he did to her is excusable.
    As a character, no, Wanda doesn't need the X-Men or being a mutant to survive, but her brother can't say the same thing. His mutant pride was almost as great as his once/father and his hate for the latter was even greater. I see Pietro as a satellite X-character more than an Avengers character, because he's done more in the X-line than his old stumping grounds. In fact, Pietro has more friends with the mutants, such as Lorna, than in the Avengers. I don't think anyone over there even likes him, including his sister. She loves him, but doesn't like him.
    Anyway, if Logan, Jean, Rachel (when she tried to destroy and restart the universe to kill the Beyonder), Warren, and Bobby can be forgiven for killing countless of people, than Wanda should be given that same privilege. If fact, I blame Doom and Pietro more than I blame Wanda for M-Day, even though she said those damn words.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by starduck View Post
    I think Uncanny Avengers is what ruined her redemption arc. I don't understand why she was written as cold and cruel to mutants when she should have been more empathetic.
    remender bad
    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    The world has changed, and so have I.

  14. #119
    Wanda & Ribrianne~4~Life! CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaxman View Post
    I look at the M-Day as a tragedy all around. Yes she was the cause but I feel she was a victim of Doom and the Life force, the same way Iceman was a victim of the Death seed and Logan was a victim of the Hand. And before the recon, Jean a victim of a primordial cosmic force that is the Phoenix. But worse of all, Wanda was a major victim of Bendis. What he did to her is excusable.

    As a character, no, Wanda doesn't need the X-Men or being a mutant to survive, but her brother can't say the same thing. His mutant pride was almost as great as his once/father and his hate for the latter was even greater. I see Pietro as a satellite X-character more than an Avengers character, because he's done more in the X-line than his old stumping grounds. In fact, Pietro has more friends with the mutants, such as Lorna, than in the Avengers. I don't think anyone over there even likes him, including his sister. She loves him, but doesn't like him.

    Anyway, if Logan, Jean, Rachel (when she tried to destroy and restart the universe to kill the Beyonder), Warren, and Bobby can be forgiven for killing countless of people, than Wanda should be given that same privilege. If fact, I blame Doom and Pietro more than I blame Wanda for M-Day, even though she said those damn words.
    Well said Post Alphaxman, Most of All/Especially the bolded parts I agree with the most!
    Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!”

    ~~ Brianne De Chateau ~ Episode 102, of Dragon Ball Super!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyHGXMH6HB0
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread!

  15. #120
    Incredible Member Cruelrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaxman View Post
    I look at the M-Day as a tragedy all around. Yes she was the cause but I feel she was a victim of Doom and the Life force, the same way Iceman was a victim of the Death seed and Logan was a victim of the Hand. And before the recon, Jean a victim of a primordial cosmic force that is the Phoenix. But worse of all, Wanda was a major victim of Bendis. What he did to her is excusable.
    As a character, no, Wanda doesn't need the X-Men or being a mutant to survive, but her brother can't say the same thing. His mutant pride was almost as great as his once/father and his hate for the latter was even greater. I see Pietro as a satellite X-character more than an Avengers character, because he's done more in the X-line than his old stumping grounds. In fact, Pietro has more friends with the mutants, such as Lorna, than in the Avengers. I don't think anyone over there even likes him, including his sister. She loves him, but doesn't like him.
    Anyway, if Logan, Jean, Rachel (when she tried to destroy and restart the universe to kill the Beyonder), Warren, and Bobby can be forgiven for killing countless of people, than Wanda should be given that same privilege. If fact, I blame Doom and Pietro more than I blame Wanda for M-Day, even though she said those damn words.
    I agree with all especially with the Quicksilver thing

    He had more stories with the X-Men and a relationship with Mutants than Wanda ever had, not being a mutant hurts him more than Wanda since she never interacted much with them and she's most known as an Avenger as she should, with the current Marvel pushing her to the mystic arts there's no place for being a mutant imo

    Also he even looks like Magneto
    tumblr_mw67hkhuoF1sk0uuqo3_640.jpg

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