Controversial Statement: Wonderwoman needs more male readers.

[mathew101281]

People wonder why Wonderwoman doesn’t have as many books as Batman, Superman or even Green Lantern. It could be because Wonderwoman’s primary demographic is far more limited. Wonderwoman seems almost exclusively targeted at female readers. Some would say “aren’t Batman and Superman targeted at male readers?” . I’d say not completely. Though Batman, and Superman, themselves might be white/male, the have several supporting characters that aren’t. These characters help to broaden the appeal of the franchise as a whole. Wonderwoman really doesn’t have that. So in a way she’s working from a smaller potential fan pool.

Even Flash has Female derivatives.

The closed Wonderwoman has to prominent male character is Steve Trevor. And he’s more male Lois Lane, then Supergirl or Batwoman. Does anyone else see this as a potential problem for the character.

[Pinsir]

Isn't WW's readership already majority male though?

[Starter Set]

Isn't WW's readership already majority male though?

I would think so too. Don't have any numbers to back it up so just my guess though.

I don't know, women i know tend to read manga and European comics so maybe i lack perspective lol.

[Arctic Cyclist]

Isn't WW's readership already majority male though?

It is. Which is the real reason she struggles with popularity and sales.

Consider this: her movie is by far and away the most popular out of all the DC movies. Demographics showed that it was primarily women and girls attending the movie. There was brief spike in sales at the time of the movie.

Those women and girls encountered the Azzarello/Chang book.

Poor things.

There's a reason why BOP was taken away from Azzarello as soon as someone with a bit of sales and marketing comprehension read his Wonder Woman: it would have been the exact same mistake as Azzarello, like many DC writers, doesn't understand female characters or readers.

Consider the wild popularity of Damian Wayne* and Harley Quinn and who their primary fandoms are. Or, to call out the classics: Dr Who, Outlander, Game of Thrones, Star Trek.

Women.

The average male does not read or buy books, including comics, once they are out of school. Media that targets male readers, such as comics, reflects that in their struggle for sales, particularly in floppies. Of course there are break out comics that are unstoppable forces in popularity like Saga and the Walking Dead. Consider the demographics of those fandoms, which are similar to the two Batman and Robin runs, which were both consistently in the top ten Diamond Sales, and the former fandom of Batman prior to Rebirth. What do those top sellers have in common? Female buyers.

So the issue is how to recruit female readers, not male. A male sidekick isn't the way to do it; although a female one, similar to Gabrielle from Xena might do it.

The easiest way? Embrace Zeus as the villain. Lean hard into the actual mythology and explore how the Greek Pantheon by modern standards borders on being evil. (Except Hades and Hephaestus, those two were upright dudes. Hades even raised his niece/stepdaughter and adored her despite the child being the result of Zeus masquerading as him in order to rape Persephone in their home.)

Wonder Woman struggles due to not having memorable villains. By digging into the Greek myths and embracing how bad those gods were, which is what many fantastic bestselling novels and short story collections are doing right now, there's a potential to dramatically increase sales and draw in fans.

Or else lean into her being bisexual. Maybe get Steve Trevor pregnant and reintroduce Hunter Prince into the main universe without the rape that some how, some way, the editorial approved of for that brief and terrible Justice League story. Definitely, they need to read Circe and the newest translations of The Odyssey and Ovid's Metamorphosis.

*I will acknowledge that DC and the WB have done a fantastic job of alienating the original Damian Wayne fandom in favor of courting the young male fans via attempting to make the comic Damian and Talia the same as the DCAU ones. Rebirth sales have reflected this. For the first time since his introduction books that have Damian as a character are selling lower than books featuring Batgirl, Tim Drake, and Catwoman which demonstrates a severe mismanagement of the character.

[Ulysses]

Demographics showed that it was primarily women and girls attending the movie.

52%. So technically this is true.

[Agent Z]

52%. So technically this is true.

56% according to Statista. Nothing technical about it.

[Ulysses]

56% according to Statista. Nothing technical about it.

You’ll have a hard time convincing me 52%-56% is a stat demonstrating a primarily female audience. Clearly WW has appeal across male and female demo.

50 shades for instance was 68%. That is a chick flick.

[Guy_McNichts]

It is. Which is the real reason she struggles with popularity and sales.

Consider this: her movie is by far and away the most popular out of all the DC movies. Demographics showed that it was primarily women and girls attending the movie. There was brief spike in sales at the time of the movie.

Those women and girls encountered the Azzarello/Chang book.

Poor things.

I think there's a lot of truth to this.

Her movie proved there is definitely an audience, but if you walked out of her film and picked up an issue of Wonder Woman that came out that summer, you know what you got? Zeus fighting Darkseid and her twin brother fighting Darkseid's minions, while Diana herself sits off to the side thinking about how great it is to have Zeus for a father.
And if you looked over to what she was doing in Justice League, you would find her accidentally shot in the throat and writhing on the ground with a stupid look on her face until Superman saved her.

The animated movies? I've already gone off at length in other threads about how, outside of her solo movie, Diana's only purpose in them is to get her ass kicked so other heroes can save her.

The fact is DC is not--nor has it ever really been, if we're being honest--exactly welcoming to new/potential Wonder Woman fans. Male or female.
Frankly, and I say this as a longtime fan, there are times where it more like an endurance test.

Better writing, consistency, better use of her rogues, etc....these are all good points. But I think the heart of it is DC needs to find creators who understand the character and don't regard her as an unwanted burden.

[The no face guy]

The creative team at Justice League Dark has sparked my interest in Wonder Woman. Usually Batman is my big three go to person, but I'm going to start giving it a read.

[vasir12]

I think this thread has had a very nice discussion so far and has highlighted multiple concurrent problems with the Wonder Woman franchise (with some problems extending to other DC properties outside of Batman).

Seems like most people have come to the conclusion that the lack of male readership isn't the problem. I think it's really just the quality of writing plus exposure. Maybe a cartoon could help? Who knows. DC would really have to invest in her while not changing who she is to be as "cool" as Batman. She's cool on her own if you write her right.


(Also, why isn't this thread in the Wonder Woman section? That area of the board needs more traffic)

[chamber-music]

Speaking only for myself, I don't regularly buy any books from the Trinity. I do, however, pick up a storyline here and there if it seems interesting to me and the creative team gets me excited. I bought the Azzarello/ Chiang Wonder Woman because of the art at first, then because I liked where the story was going.

I second this.

I picked up the book because I liked the art and thought the direction Azzarello was taking the character sounded interesting and ended up enjoying the run.

I don't think Wonder Woman needs more male sidekicks. I think she needs better stories in general. Other times I've checked out her books I've found the stories middle of the road and uninteresting which lead to me not continuing to read her solo books.

[Dr. Ellingham]

Isn't WW's readership already majority male though?

My experience on this topic is exactly opposite the initial assumption: Most of WW's fanbase is male, not female. Like 80%+, I'd guess. Which makes sense if you think of the historical demographics of cape comics. I haven't known a ton of comic fans in my life, but most of them were male. Several of them bought Wonder Woman comics on the regular. And Supergirl.

I've never known a woman who's been into Wonder Woman - on any level. Not even the TV show, which I watched reruns of as a kid. Within my own household, my daughters both love fantasy, superheroes, and both read comics and manga in their teens. But until the Gal Gadot movie, neither even remotely liked WW. My younger daughter always called her boring. But after watching the Gal Gadot movie, she said that version was "badass". She loves warrior characters. So...progress, I guess?

[j9ac9k]

Speaking only for myself, I don't regularly buy any books from the Trinity. I do, however, pick up a storyline here and there if it seems interesting to me and the creative team gets me excited. I bought the Azzarello/ Chiang Wonder Woman because of the art at first, then because I liked where the story was going.

I would also say that if you look a say the 90's, Wonder Woman seemed aimed at guys because of the cheesecake factor and the "badgirl" trend that saw a lot of female characters become more sexualized. Not sure how that translated in sales, but I don't recall her having more titles in the "WW family."

[Gotham citizen]

I don't think the problem is a lack of male supporting character: look characters like Catwoman, Barbara Gordon, Storm, Psylocke, Jean Grey, Rogue, Emma Frost: they have a lot of male fans, even if they are female characters. In my opinion no one read a book for the sex of the supporting character: the people reads a book if the main character is loved and the stories are good and the Batman franchise is a perfect example of that: in almost all the title the main character (doesn't matter if he is Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl…) works alone.

[Jackalope89]

I don't think the problem is a lack of male supporting character: look characters like Catwoman, Barbara Gordon, Storm, Psylocke, Jean Grey, Rogue, Emma Frost: they have a lot of male fans, even if they are female characters. In my opinion no one read a book for the sex of the supporting character: the people reads a book if the main character is loved and the stories are good and the Batman franchise is a perfect example of that: in almost all the title the main character (doesn't matter if he is Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl…) works alone.

I agree that not having a "male counterpart" (like Batman has Batgirl/Batwoman and Superman has Supergirl) isn't the issue. That said; I wouldn't mind if she did have someone like that. Because literally all the other big names of the Justice League have an opposite sex counterpart, except her.